Disingenuous departure board at London Victoria

[XAM2175]

I still think a surcharge would be a retrograde step and bad for the passenger: there hasn't been one in place since Gatwick opened AFAIK, so why now?

In an ideal world, I'd just replace Gatwick Express with a 'regular' Southern service, in the same path, calling additionally at Clapham Junction, and operated by standard Southern stock (12 cars, as it'll get busy due to also serving Brighton).

For the avoidance of doubt, I was speaking from the position of "if some form of extra charge is considered necessary", like Heathrow with its access fees for the heavy rail tunnels. I'm not necessarily advocating for it at Gatwick, but either way I definitely agree that Gatwick Express as it works now is a joke.

 

[island]

They have a similar arrangement in Brussels Zaventem airport railway station; entry or exit requires a “Diavolo” supplement ticket. The supplement is included in tickets specifically to or from the airport but anyone using rovers, stopping short, etc. has to pay the extra.

 

[chriskeene]

For the avoidance of doubt, I was speaking from the position of "if some form of extra charge is considered necessary", like Heathrow with its access fees for the heavy rail tunnels. I'm not necessarily advocating for it at Gatwick, but either way I definitely agree that Gatwick Express as it works now is a joke.

Agree, it's easy to say go with the cheapest option, but that would never get the green light in this cash strapped treasury run railway.

I don't think Gatwick needs an explicitly stated supplement, the network if full of inconsistent ticket pricing quirks, just a consistent price, which may be higher than stations around it.

As others have said, even if GatEx service arguably had features that warranted a higher price up until the mid2000s, now it is just a half hourly train to Brighton with a lot of confusion and needless effort to push people towards particular trains and fares.

I would advocate:
- A consistent price between Vic/London Bridge/St Pancras (and other Thameslink core) to/from Gatwick, which is a little more than current Southern and Thameslink fares (but less than Gatex). Tap in and tap out would be the same amount. Removal of Gatwick Express brand.
- A slightly higher amount for 'London Terminals' to/from Gatwick (flexibility = premium - and this helps keep the above fare slightly lower)
- Regular commuters/ airport staff can save using season tickets, perhaps a carnet with a decent discount, and using tickets to three bridges, for cheaper tickets.

This would stop the confusing and unhelpful messaging and also make the options at ticket machines much simpler (as someone who has arrived at many a European airport, gone to a ticket machine selected 'central station' and been given a list of lines and 'via this or via that' options which I have no idea about).

 

[miklcct]

(as someone who has arrived at many a European airport, gone to a ticket machine selected 'central station' and been given a list of lines and 'via this or via that' options which I have no idea about).

I would rather the via this and via that options are shown. I have arrived at Copenhagen Airport and need a ticket to Lund, and it showed me that via bridge or via ferry. This is important because I am sure that my ticket is valid on the route I want to take.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I would rather the via this and via that options are shown. I have arrived at Copenhagen Airport and need a ticket to Lund, and it showed me that via bridge or via ferry. This is important because I am sure that my ticket is valid on the route I want to take.

The problem with Gatwick airport is that the routes are all via mostly the same er route !. Two are all the same route to Victoria and one is to London bridge etc so Thameslink could be labelled via London Bridge but only if looking North.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

could be labelled via London Bridge

And when it's on diversion via Herne Hill as it frequently is?...

 

[matt_world2004]

The fairest thing to do would be to apply the special fare to entries and exits from the Gatwick Airport station (with a suitable concession scheme for airport staff and local residents as appropriate). That way there's no need for any of the "pretend the cheap trains don't exist" rigmarole, allowing GX services to actually segregate airport traffic.

This would penalise people who work there

 

[Peter Sarf]

And when it's on diversion via Herne Hill as it frequently is?...

Oh don't remind me of those dark days before London Bridge was ready . That slow meander round South London instead of the straight bit to Croydon on the fast line. I have not had to experience it lately (have I been lucky ?). The highlight of that route was more than once on a late evening some passengers would trigger the emergency door release at Crystal Palace and disembark. Reminds me of the days people could jump off an Ex Brighton fast slammer as it slowed to drop staff at Selhurst. Twas last Century you know

 

[WizCastro197]

sometimes say!

Or never, unless you actually bother to look up at the sign. The other week when GTR services were affected by the ASLEF overtime ban, southern ran a Gatwick to Victoria shuttle calling at the usual East Croydon, and Clapham, which just so happened to use GX coaches and end up on platform 13. So naturally many people used the GX gateline, instead of the southern one. Perhaps they thought because it used those coaches it was a GatEx service but not one gateline staff member informed passengers that it was wiser to use the Platform 12 gate which unsurprisingly was empty.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Jun 2023 ==

(have I been lucky ?).

Last diversion via Herne Hill was May 28th I believe, although there could’ve been a more recent one. A whole hour to St Pancras from Redhill, although only 15 minutes longer than via London Bridge!

 

[Peter Sarf]

---

This would penalise people who work there

Umm, but he said :-

The fairest thing to do would be to apply the special fare to entries and exits from the Gatwick Airport station (with a suitable concession scheme for airport staff and local residents as appropriate). That way there's no need for any of the "pretend the cheap trains don't exist" rigmarole, allowing GX services to actually segregate airport traffic.

My bold.

I wonder if Croydon is local (said tongue in cheek but thinking about it maybe seriously).

 

[JonathanH]

This would penalise people who work there

It wouldn't. They would be able to get a concession through their employer.

Southern - Gatwick staff discount card

www.southernrailway.com

Gatwick Staff Discount Card

If your work is based at Gatwick Airport, then you may be eligible to buy a Gatwick Staff Discount Card. With this card you can benefit from discounted train tickets on from your home station to Gatwick Airport.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

(have I been lucky ?)

Yes. It's been used quite frequently be it for fires at London Bridge, engineering works, and the timetabled departures late at/through the night.

, although there could’ve been a more recent one.

This morning technically.

Realtime Trains | 9W00 0002 Brighton to Bedford | 18/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 9W00 0002 departure from Brighton to Bedford on 18/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Horizon22]

Yes. It's been used quite frequently be it for fires at London Bridge, engineering works, and the timetabled departures late at/through the night.


This morning technically.

Realtime Trains | 9W00 0002 Brighton to Bedford | 18/06/2023

Real-time train running information for 9W00 0002 departure from Brighton to Bedford on 18/06/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Only 25 minutes E. Croydon to Blackfriars though, which is expected when there’s little to no conflicting traffic.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Having done the in-the-night diversion runs many-a-time, whilst it feels very slow, it's a very smooth and quick run compared to what the diversion usually is like.

 

[Bikeman78]

Not really the same service. Technically its still 'faster' but it also offers a bespoke destination for a bespoke passenger. People are willing to pay a premium for what they consider important. Not sitting with Hoi Polloi would be enough for me to pay that little bit extra for.

The Gatwick Express runs through to Brighton. So it's likely to be as busy as any other departure heading down the Brighton main line. There aren't any Southern branded trains from Victoria to Brighton during the day.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

So it's likely to be as busy as any other departure heading down the Brighton main line.

It's ever so slightly quieter for those departing Victoria as it isn't carrying the riff raff going to Croydon.

 

[yorkie]

Not really the same service. Technically its still 'faster' but it also offers a bespoke destination for a bespoke passenger. People are willing to pay a premium for what they consider important. Not sitting with Hoi Polloi would be enough for me to pay that little bit extra for.

What you describe is out of date by many years! You've not been on GX since GTR took over, have you?

 

[Peter Sarf]

It's ever so slightly quieter for those departing Victoria as it isn't carrying the riff raff going to Croydon.

Oi !!.

Well not totally untrue.

 

[Turtle]

Supermarkets do it ALL the time. When I worked in retail, the way in which we advertised products would be considered a scam 24/7. Retail are the Kings of customer manipulation.



Not really the same service. Technically its still 'faster' but it also offers a bespoke destination for a bespoke passenger. People are willing to pay a premium for what they consider important. Not sitting with Hoi Polloi would be enough for me to pay that little bit extra for.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 19 Jun 2023 ==

Supermarkets do it ALL the time. When I worked in retail, the way in which we advertised products would be considered a scam 24/7. Retail are the Kings of customer manipulation.



Not really the same service. Technically its still 'faster' but it also offers a bespoke destination for a bespoke passenger. People are willing to pay a premium for what they consider important. Not sitting with Hoi Polloi would be enough for me to pay that little bit extra for.

So good to see a post by a classicist. Clearly a fellow member of hoi oligoi.

 

[c52]

One advantage of Gatwick Express used to be that there was always a train waiting in the platform, but now that Gatwick station has been rebuilt to allow that without using platforms 1 & 2, there is no need for these long periods of platform occupation.

 

[PGAT]

One advantage of Gatwick Express used to be that there was always a train waiting in the platform, but now that Gatwick station has been rebuilt to allow that without using platforms 1 & 2, there is no need for these long periods of platform occupation.

There’s always a train waiting for you anyway if you’re at Victoria

 

[miklcct]

Also the big poster specifically says platform 1-7 for Kent, 9-12 and 15-18 for Sussex and 13-14 for Gatwick Airport (I'll upload a photo if I pass it again). This is clearly misleading as trains from platform 15-18 also goes to the airport. (I boarded the 13:46 train to Littlehampton from platform 15 while the next GX would be 13 minutes later)

 

[Peter Sarf]

Also the big poster specifically says platform 1-7 for Kent, 9-12 and 15-18 for Sussex and 13-14 for Gatwick Airport (I'll upload a photo if I pass it again). This is clearly misleading as trains from platform 15-18 also goes to the airport. (I boarded the 13:46 train to Littlehampton from platform 15 while the next GX would be 13 minutes later)

True. Most, but not quite all, trains from 15-18 call at Gatwick and there must be a lot more of them than there are trains from 13-14.

 

[ThameslinkUser]

there must be a lot more of them than there are trains from 13-14.

But are a lot less suitable for the luggage requirements.

 

[PGAT]

But are a lot less suitable for the luggage requirements.

If GTR really cares about that they would have bought more suitable rolling stock for Gatwick Express…

 

[Peter Sarf]

But are a lot less suitable for the luggage requirements.

Oh yes, very noticeable. Last time I travelled from Croydon on a non GetEx I had to squeeze past all the door hangers and then found plenty of seats in the seated area but with the aisle constrained with bags. Nobody seems to know about the space under and behind the back to back seating these days.

So probably not too bad for luggage if the humans had eyes etc.

 

[Hophead]

There are very few trains to Sussex from platforms 9 to 12 - these mostly serve South London & Surrey.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

Def not all. The off peak Reigate and East Grinsteads don’t. The peak Reigate trains have a four coach unit going to Gatwick which is all stops post Purley and a long wait at Redhill. I’d mask the destination but then I’d get accused of the sin which started this thread.

 

[WizCastro197]

Def not all. The off peak Reigate and East Grinsteads don’t. The peak Reigate trains have a four coach unit going to Gatwick which is all stops post Purley and a long wait at Redhill. I’d mask the destination but then I’d get accused of the sin which started this thread.

Also, more and more Reigate trains are being rapidly moved to Platforms 12 and 13 (see the issue here?), and I believe all weekend services depart from these two now, maybe even 14 as well.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jun 2023 ==

There are very few trains to Sussex from platforms 9 to 12 - these mostly serve South London & Surrey.

Horsham trains (via Epsom)?

 

[miklcct]

Poster photo here

Travelling to
Kent & East Sussex: platforms 1-7
Sussex & the South Coast: platforms 9-12 and 15-19
Gatwick Airport: platforms 13-14