Future of Ticket Office Consultations launched

[AlterEgo]

As recently as 20 years ago you probably paid for a large supermarket shop using a cheque.

No you probably didn't. Cheque guarantees were basically extinct by the time I started working in banking in 2006.

Tesco stopped accepting them altogether in 2008, 15 years ago, and was actually one of the last big supermarkets to do so.

 

[1D54]

For reference, has anyone compiled anywhere a list of ticket offices across the country that *will* stay open?

BBC East Midlands Today have just said that they have seen a list and Leicester, Derby and Nottingham will remain open and all other stations in EMR area will close.

 

[Russel]

I've had that sort of experience far, far too often. A very significant minority of booking office staff were basically asking for this.

Not to mention the perennial "Yer'l'after go ter Lime Streets fer dat" on Merseyside, which has been being used as an excuse to avoid doing anything even vaguely difficult for 30+ years.

I was able to travel around France by train in 2019 without using a booking office or speaking to a member of staff, or even speaking French.

My grandparents are in their late 80s and have no issues buying train tickets online, switching broadband supplier online etc...

I'd hate to see anyone put out of work but unfortunately the business case for keeping ticket offices open really is weak.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No you probably didn't. Cheque guarantees were basically extinct by the time I started working in banking in 2006.

Tesco stopped accepting them altogether in 2008, 15 years ago, and was actually one of the last big supermarkets to do so.

30 years and I'd believe him. When I was a kid my Mum used to pay by cheque in Kwik Save. A curiosity was that if you wanted to do that you had to go to the customer service desk to have it stamped with company name etc, and they'd just fill in the amount at the till. Later they were able to put them through the till and print them there.

 

[AlterEgo]

Ticket office staff are currently in an enclosed environment /room protected by a strong glass window for their safety and security, not only for themselves but for the security of sensitive customer transaction details and of course revenue /cash etc.

The bolded part is a strange assertion. New bank branches are now mostly without "safety glass", because this is seen as conducive to good customer service. Loads of ticket offices aren't glassed off either; Euston is a prominent example.

 

[krus_aragon]

LNER are proposing, inter-alia, "floor walking", "upskilling" and "answering bespoke questions".

Is there any other type of question which a customer might ask in a station retail situation?

"Where's the toilets?" is far too common a question to be considered bespoke.

 

[bicbasher]

What a surreal day. Where Waterloo loses their ticket office and Penge West managed by London Overground will continue to sell tickets on weekday mornings.

I noticed that Southeastern are mass closing Metro ticket offices in SE London, while Abbey Wood survives because it's managed by the Elizabeth line concessionaire.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd hate to see anyone put out of work but unfortunately the business case for keeping ticket offices open really is weak.

The main reasons for keeping them open are mostly things that need fixing anyway, e.g. Rovers to be sold from TVMs and online, Privs should be sold from TVMs in some form, single fare pricing removes most need for excesses, Worldline need to change their online systems so instead of excessing for an Advance change they refund and reissue as per Trainline so no need to change Advances at stations, etc.

The bolded part is a strange assertion. New bank branches are now mostly without "safety glass", because this is seen as conducive to good customer service. Loads of ticket offices aren't glassed off either; Euston is a prominent example.

To be fair I think this depends on the station. I'd be happy dealing with cash at Euston, a busy station at all times of day with other staff and often police and security guards around. I'd not be similarly happy at Kirkby, Kirkdale, Brunswick, or even Manchester Oxford Road at night.

 

[Edsmith]

So my local ticket office is closing quelle surpise but being replaced with a customer assistance person for exactly the same time so will still need to heat the office and provide all the same welfare for them but now there will only be one ticket machine and even those who know what they are doing need a good minute to buy a ticket. So will this customer assistance person now be provided with a portable machine more costs (they've not long installed new kit in the ticket office) or will they just be on hand to help people use the machines. Oh im guessing they will now need to be provided with cold weather clothing as well.

This is a bonkers idea if its about saving money but feels like its another Shapps special that the RDG have just rolled over and accepted. The industry is seriously lacking anybody with balls to come out and speak up for the industry.

It's only what's happened in just about every other country in Europe, as mentioned in a previous post Sweden has no ticket offices whatsoever. Are you going to blame Shapps for that?

 

[kkong]

"Where's the toilets?" is far too common a question to be considered bespoke.

Right - so the LNER floor-walkers won't be answering that question.

 

[squizzler]

I think replacement of ticket offices with roving “journey makers” should occur only after the long promised fares reform.

The current fares structure is too complex for the public to get the best deal from such informal sales. Reforming the sales experience before simplifying the fares structure is putting the cart before the horse.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

No you probably didn't. Cheque guarantees were basically extinct by the time I started working in banking in 2006.

Tesco stopped accepting them altogether in 2008, 15 years ago, and was actually one of the last big supermarkets to do so.

In the UK, the Cheque Guarantee Card scheme officially ended mid 2011, but usage had significantly diminished well before then.

Fairly sure that in the later years, certainly at my bank, the cheque guarantee card was combined with/into a debit card, and so was essentially dual purpose.

Certainly a long, long time since I bought any rail tickets using a cheque supported by a cheque guarantee card.

P.S. Wonder what the future arrangements will be for anyone still wanting to buy a high value annual season ticket, maybe with a corporate cheque.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Great, I look forward to receiving my booking office users special free railpass then

You presumably missed that it isn't a joke or sarcasm - this is what SWR are proposing. You'll get a free pass that allows you to travel to a station with facilities so you can purchase whatever advance tickets, specialist products etc you want there, at no cost to you.

 

[jon0844]

So either ticket offices would be allowed to fall into disrepair, or they would be repurposed - quite possibly for staff accommodation at smaller stations when taking breaks from their 8 hours assisting customers to use the ticket machines?

At some (many?) stations, is it really going to be safe to have a staff member just lingering around a gateline or station entrance instead of being in a single location, with a seat and heating/cooling, to assist - where people know to go?

Staff at gatelines in all weathers are entitled to more regular breaks, so what happens when the ex-ticket office staff are frozen and need to go. Does the wheelchair user just wait around or seek someone else for assistance?

I get that ticket office staff may sell less tickets and that could mean getting rid of some equipment or even giving less training, but surely having people at a fixed location is more sensible.

What will probably end up happening is that you'll just have an information point (pod/kiosk) outside instead, which can get vandalised and will need power/heating, making it more sensible to keep the ticket office.

And if tickets are sold on the platform, where does the money get banked if the ticket office has now become a Costa Coffee?

 

[43066]

I don't agree - basically every organisation provides a service (is the DVLA a business to take a random example?). In any case, though, if every organisation is a business then the point about the railway being a business is essentially irrelevant. The railway is at the very least a primarily state-funded and state-organised business and thus is a public service business, if you will, but the initial point from AOwen compared it to the Co-Op - evidently a completely different form of business.

Basically every organisation from sole traders to multinationals is a business, irrespective of how they’re funded or their objectives, yes. The DVLA would be included in most definitions.

I do agree with you regarding @A0wen ‘s comparisons which are (as always) wide of the mark and selected to advance his usual agenda.

 

[yorksrob]

You presumably missed that it isn't a joke or sarcasm - this is what SWR are proposing. You'll get a free pass that allows you to travel to a station with facilities so you can purchase whatever advance tickets, specialist products etc you want there, at no cost to you.

That's not quite the same thing as "allowing travel around free of charge" though, is it.

 

[Backroom_boy]

Saying soon customers will be able to use cash at local retail outlets to purchase tickets, presumably something like a tie in with pay point or similar with a journey planner app for the store keeper etc and simply printing a paper ticket with aztec code,

would seem like nearly a privatisation of the ticket offices on the cheap, WH Smith are already in most of the prime locations already (they took on a lot of post office counter services in a similar sort of way)

Tbh I'm not expecting WH Smith to last more than 5 years in its current form. Possibly will retrench to airports and stations and a real slashing of high Street sites.

 

[td97]

It is interesting that Horwich Parkway, operated by TfGM, will not be affected by the ticket office closure plans.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It is interesting that Horwich Parkway, operated by TfGM, will not be affected by the ticket office closure plans.

Nor Merseyrail, nor TfL, nor ScotRail, nor TfW, simply because none of them are in the jurisdiction of the DfT.

 

[willgreen]

Basically every organisation from sole traders to multinationals is a business, irrespective of how they’re funded or their objectives, yes. The DVLA would be included in most definitions.

I do agree with you regarding @A0wen ‘s comparisons which are (as always) wide of the mark and selected to advance his usual agenda.

Fair enough - I suppose it comes down to the distinction between the objectives of businesses, then - which as you note is a distinction that @AOwen appears willing to blur in order to suit his argument.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Nor Merseyrail, nor TfL, nor ScotRail, nor TfW, simply because none of them are in the jurisdiction of the DfT.

But in all likelihood, once things die down in England and the world doesn't cave in for every man and his dog, and costs continue to rise - they won't be able to ignore the reality before them. I suspect there's just as much of an appetite to close in Wales and Scotland, but they don't want the fallout and headlines- England can go first, and they'll follow later.

 

[td97]

Nor Merseyrail, nor TfL, nor ScotRail, nor TfW, simply because none of them are in the jurisdiction of the DfT.

Although Horwich Parkway is somewhat different to those examples as the station operator and TOC serving the station (Northern) are different entities.

 

[43066]

Privs should be sold from TVMs in some form,

I’d rather they focussed on properly enabling priv e-tickets everywhere and improving the website - no reason not to now that we have the portal.

Buying from a TVM is the worst of all worlds.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Maybe I am out of the loop on this, but I noticed that the third party ticket offices at Newark Castle and Mansfield are also to close. Did these come into the proper EMR franchise at some point instead of being independent travel agents?

 

[WatcherZero]

London Undergrounds already been through this, independent Travelwatch review requsted by Khan in 2016 said it wasnt a bad change overall they just needed a few more staff walking around in former ticket halls.

 

[skyhigh]

The bolded part is a strange assertion. New bank branches are now mostly without "safety glass", because this is seen as conducive to good customer service. Loads of ticket offices aren't glassed off either; Euston is a prominent example.

The difference being quite a few smaller ticket offices only have 1 member of staff on the station at any one time. I can't imagine there's many bank branches that are single staffed.

 

[The exile]

Out of interest, how many of you calling for ticket offices to remain, use them on a frequent basis?

I do - as the ticket which I rely upon for commuting is not available online, on smart cards, nor at ticket machines. I could buy it on the bus if I caught a bus down to the station - but then I'd be stuck trying to open station barriers with a bus ticket! I would also add that I have nothing but praise for the ticket office staff from whom I buy it.

 

[Ediswan]

You presumably missed that it isn't a joke or sarcasm - this is what SWR are proposing. You'll get a free pass that allows you to travel to a station with facilities so you can purchase whatever advance tickets, specialist products etc you want there, at no cost to you.

That would appear to be contary to one of pledges cited by RDG:

Following extensive and on-going engagement with accessibility, safety and passenger groups, rail companies are also unveiling a series of pledges for rail passengers about the proposals.
They are:
*Across the network as a whole, there will be more staff available to give face to face help to customers out in stations than there are today
* Customers will never have to travel out of their way to buy tickets
*Those with accessibility needs will always be supported
*All rail staff will be treated fairly and their new roles will be more engaging

https://media.raildeliverygroup.com...e-the-railway-for-how-passengers-use-it-today

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

That would appear to be contary to one of pledges cited by RDG:

https://media.raildeliverygroup.com...e-the-railway-for-how-passengers-use-it-today

I think it's intended to improve the current situation - plenty of stations at the moment have no facilities whatsoever and you'd have to go out of your way at your own cost to buy in advance etc.

Customers wouldn't HAVE to travel out of their way - there's plenty of other, better options - but if they voluntarily feel that they want a different option more to their own liking, they're welcome to travel freely to another location to get them.

I read the RDG release as meaning nobody will be forced to travel elsewhere.

 

[BAFRA77]

I note two things from the WMR information (which is my area):

1. “As is the case currently, if customers are genuinely unable to purchase a ticket before travelling, they will need to make the senior conductor aware as the earliest opportunity while on the train.”

Is that against NRCOT - isn’t the weighting NOT on the passenger to go ferreting around a 5 coach service packed to the rafters between University and Ledbury to try to find someone?

2. “Third party retailing at a physical location, such as a convenience store, either on- or off-station will be referred to as a ticket stop. These will be targeted at customers paying cash or without access to digital technology to book. Ticket stops will be a long-term solution for customers who cannot or do not want to use bank card payment or digital ticketing.”

That might cause interesting situations when you are trying to buy the best split ticket option whilst a spotty youth is getting impatient in the queue behind you because they’re desperate to get down the park with the bottle of Frosty Jacks they’ve got in their hand.

Onto another thing upthread about Sweden etc. - I am an annual visitor to Norway and if I remember correctly - Oslo Sentralstasjon is now TVM only apart from a “customer service agent” stood next to one of those wooden stand/desks you sometimes see on the high street when they’re trying to flog you Sky TV or a new energy contract.

I’m back over there in a couple of weeks so will make it a point to look further as to what they do.