First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[richw]

According to the Ilesbus website it comes in two versions - 17 seater or 20 seater. There is no 23 seat version.

Remember though that the MB 811s were just over 8m long and had a huge tail swing (and wider that the Ilesbus Sprinters). It just needed different positioning to get around the corners with them.

Comparing photos of the demo and the actual delivered vehicles the rear overhang looks considerably longer. Possibly 20 and the demo was 17?

 

[Goldfish62]

Comparing photos of the demo and the actual delivered vehicles the rear overhang looks considerably longer

Indeed it does.

Anyway, let's wait and see. The implications if they really have got it wrong are enormous.

 

[Busaholic]

Comparing photos of the demo and the actual delivered vehicles the rear overhang looks considerably longer. Possibly 20 and the demo was 17?

So has one been taken to Mousehole with accompanying staff and, possibly, Cornwall Council officials responsible for roads? Surely some way of getting these buses round the offending corner has to be found, otherwise it'll become a national news story, guaranteed.

 

[henryb]

UPDATE: Apparently the coach on Dartmoor Explorer is Plaxton Profile Volvo B7R 20324.

The drivers also now appear to no longer swap vehicles on their first trips but instead turn back with their vehicles at Moretonhampstead with through passengers transferring.

Wonder how long that will stay on the route. Still, it gets better views than a Solo.

 

[richw]

So has one been taken to Mousehole with accompanying staff and, possibly, Cornwall Council officials responsible for roads? Surely some way of getting these buses round the offending corner has to be found, otherwise it'll become a national news story, guaranteed.

The only way of getting longer vehicles round the offending corner will be demolishing some old cottages.
Let’s just wait and see if the the local driver gossip comes to be true on Sunday when they are due to enter service

 

[Andyh82]

So has one been taken to Mousehole with accompanying staff and, possibly, Cornwall Council officials responsible for roads? Surely some way of getting these buses round the offending corner has to be found, otherwise it'll become a national news story, guaranteed.

I did assume all the drivers would need very specific training on these vehicles, learning where to position the bus to get round the corners and that doing this in the middle of high summer might not be practical

 

[GBM]

I did assume all the drivers would need very specific training on these vehicles, learning where to position the bus to get round the corners and that doing this in the middle of high summer might not be practical

Laughing!
I only had type training on 1 vehicle type (The Tinners) in my 13 years.
Everything else was - it's there - you are a driver. Go.
To my question of "Will it fit" was always yes!

 

[Goldfish62]

The only way of getting longer vehicles round the offending corner will be demolishing some old cottages.
Let’s just wait and see if the the local driver gossip comes to be true on Sunday when they are due to enter service

How long are they? The length in photos is emphasised because they're lower than the Solos.

I'll reiterate, if the wider 811s with their huge rear overhangs could get around then surely these can.

I remember back when the Marshall LHSs were introduced. Drivers really struggled a lot initially.

Laughing!
I only had type training on 1 vehicle type (The Tinners) in my 13 years.
Everything else was - it's there - you are a driver. Go.
To my question of "Will it fit" was always yes!

I was told that when the Solos were brought in the union objected, but in the end agreed on the basis of new drivers having guidance around the corners initially. I assume that was quickly forgotten then!

 

[GBM]

How long are they? The length in photos is emphasised because they're lower than the Solos.

I'll reiterate, if the wider 811s with their huge rear overhangs could get around then surely these can.

I remember back when the Marshall LHSs were introduced. Drivers really struggled a lot initially.


I was told that when the Solos were brought in the union objected, but in the end agreed on the basis of new drivers having guidance around the corners initially. I assume that was quickly forgotten then!

Everything gets quickly forgotten! Driver shortage. vehicle shortage; it's always a "just do it as a favour, it will be OK". Drivers come and go, as do managers, so everything changes fairly quickly.

 

[richw]

How long are they? The length in photos is emphasised because they're lower than the Solos.

The 17 seater is 7.8m, so presumably if these are 20 seaters then they will be 8.3m (the sales brochure just mentions the 20 seat version is 50cm longer)

The i city max is 8.8m.

The 5386* Solos are 8.5m and are known and tested that they don’t fit.

 

[Goldfish62]

The 17 seater is 7.8m, so presumably if these are 20 seaters then they will be 8.3m (the sales brochure just mentions the 20 seat version is 50cm longer)

The i city max is 8.8m.

The 5386* Solos are 8.5m and are known and tested that they don’t fit.

Yes, in fact I just looked up the Mercedes Sprinter van dimensions. The long wheelbase version is down as 7.4m long, therefore these would be 7.9m would they not? The width is 2.0m.

The MB811s were 8.4m long by 2.25m wide, with a massive rear overhang. They were a whole window bay longer than the 709s, but with the rear axle only shifted back about 40cm. One was borrowed from South Wales Transport and tested by an ex Harvey's driver to ensure it fitted.

 

[richw]

Yes, in fact I just looked up the Mercedes Sprinter van dimensions. The long wheelbase version is down as 7.4m long, therefore these would be 7.9m would they not? The width is 2.0m.

I took the length from the ilesbus sales catalogue. The van dimensions are irrelevant as they custom build the body work so aren’t the same as the van, only similarity will be the wheelbase from the corresponding van as they buy the chassis/ engine and then do the rest. The figures I’ve quoted were from the catalogue I had lying about.

 

[Goldfish62]

I took the length from the ilesbus sales catalogue. The van dimensions are irrelevant as they custom build the body work so aren’t the same as the van, only similarity will be the wheelbase from the corresponding van as they buy the chassis/ engine and then do the rest. The figures I’ve quoted were from the catalogue I had lying about.

It's not actually a fully custom bodywork, like the Mellor Strata or Plaxton Beaver. It's more akin to the MB608 conversions where the shell is retained, including the rear doors (these can removed and replaced with a one piece rear panel if requested, but the FSW ones retain the van doors), apart from new front bonnet mouldings to set it apart from other conversions, and an optional rear extension. The iCity Max has a fully custom bodywork.

But anyway, based on the dimensions you've quoted I'm still sceptical about the claims they won't fit.

Let's wait for Sunday...

 

[Busaholic]

Let's wait for Sunday...

09.17 - 09.18 is the salient time. It could be the longest minute in Cornish history! Alternatively, a double decker might appear at the Coastguard at the appointed hour and turf any remaining passengers off there. If we still had a proper functioning local press, the TV cameras would be just along the road in wait, but hey-ho...

 

[Goldfish62]

09.17 - 09.18 is the salient time. It could be the longest minute in Cornish history! Alternatively, a double decker might appear at the Coastguard at the appointed hour and turf any remaining passengers off there. If we still had a proper functioning local press, the TV cameras would be just along the road in wait, but hey-ho...

Meanwhile, Sprinters seem to be following me around! Saw this today and the family resemblance is obvious.

 

[vla50]

What B9s are set to transfer from Glasgow to Cornwall? According to Andy Metcalfe on Facebook there's meant to be some, any idea on how many? Many thanks!

 

[B7RLE]

One of the Sprinter's went to Mousehole on Test Today and it did fit.

 

[Goldfish62]

One of the Sprinter's went to Mousehole on Test Today and it did fit.

Phew!

 

[83G/84D]

One of the Sprinter's went to Mousehole on Test Today and it did fit.

Great news.

What B9s are set to transfer from Glasgow to Cornwall? According to Andy Metcalfe on Facebook there's meant to be some, any idea on how many? Many thanks!

37241/2/4 reported as on the way however 37241 broke down and is at Taunton depot. I don’t know anything about any more coming.

First Bus have announced service changes on social media & their website effective from September. The list also includes details of services from other operators under The Transport for Cornwall (TfC) banner.

Full details are shown below:-

Cornwall by Kernow



@by_Kernow



Some changes to Cornwall’s bus routes and timetables come into effect in September. Most changes are designed to improve reliability or are in response to passenger feedback. Read here for the full details on these upcoming changes > https://bit.ly/44spEmg



News and service updates
Cornwall Service Changes - From September 2023

Some changes to Cornwall’s bus routes and timetables come into effect in September. Most changes are designed to improve reliability or are in response to passenger feedback. Don’t forget the £2 single journey bus fare offer is still available until the end of October and there are great value fare deals to be had. See below for the full details on these upcoming changes:

Route Change Operated by T1/T2 – The Tinner Revised timetable will be introduced during the daytime Mondays to Saturdays. Certain journeys will call at Hayle Community School These changes affect First Kernow Services, Go Cornwall Bus operated journeys will remain unchanged U1/U1A – Coast to Coast The service will remain split at Truro until the 1st October due to the ongoing roadworks on the A30. Also, from the 3rd September on schooldays the 0720 Falmouth to Newquay journey will be retimed to 0700 and operate via Richard Lander School. The 1420 Newquay departure will depart at 1415 on schooldays and will also call into Richard Lander school on its way to Truro First Kernow U2 – Cornwall's Copper The 0745 Falmouth to Cambourne journey will depart at 0730 on schooldays and run via Redruth School. The 1455 Barncoose Hospital journey will additionally call at Redruth School on schooldays and operate 15 minutes later from Redruth to Falmouth. The 1605 departure from Falmouth will depart at 1620 weekdays First Kernow U3 No planned changes First Kernow 2/2A TBC Stagecoach SW 5/5A No planned changes Go Cornwall Bus 6/6A TBC Stagecoach SW 8 No planned changes Go Cornwall Bus 9 No planned changes Go Cornwall Bus 10 Renumbering of service 72. Revised timetable to provide an hourly headway between Plymouth and Trerulefoot with service 11. An hourly headway will operate between Widegates and Polperro with service 73 Go Cornwall Bus 11 A revised timetable will be introduced providing an hourly headway between Plymouth and Trerulefoot with service 10. A reduced two hourly service will operate between Trerulefoot and Bodmin Parkway Station. An hourly headway will operate between Liskeard and Trago Mill with service 77. The 30-minute service is retained between Bodmin Parkway and Wadebridge with buses extended to Padstow hourly. Times have been adjusted across the day to provide better connections with rail services at Bodmin Parkway Go Cornwall Bus 12 Service retimed to provide 30-minute frequency between Plymouth and Saltash, (interwork with 10 & 11), the hourly service to Callington and 2 hourly to Bude will remain in place. Most journeys to operate as 12, and St Dominic and Ashton are now served by 74 Go Cornwall Bus 12A Limited to 4 journeys per day, providing connection to Schools and Colleges Go Cornwall Bus 15 No planned changes Go Cornwall Bus 16/16A No planned changes Go Cornwall Bus 17 From 1st October a revised timetable will be introduced on Mondays to Saturdays. This service will now operate every 45 minutes between 0900 and 1500 Mondays to Fridays and daytime on Saturday, during the winter period First Kernow 18 – Tin Coaster No planned changes First Kernow 19 No planned changes First Kernow 21 Revised timetable and routing to enable service to connect with service 26 at St Austell and accommodate revised session times at Tretherras School. This will provide a cross St Austell service enabling improved access to local facilities. Whitemoor will no longer be served by ser 21 but will be linked to St Austell and Truro by service 22. Passengers wishing to travel between Whitmoor and Newquay will be able to change buses at St Dennis Go Cornwall Bus 22 Revised timetable and route within St Austell to operate from Trinity Street to ASDA and into St Austell Bus Station via Alexandra Road providing a requested link from the Clays villages to Asda. Departure from St Austell and Truro are 5 minutes earlier Go Cornwall Bus 23 No planned changes Travel Cornwall 24 Evening journeys operated by Go Cornwall Bus will follow the same route as the daytime First Kernow operated journeys First Kernow supported by Go Cornwall Bus 25 Some minor timetable changes to improve the route reliability, Level of service remains as now. The Sunday service will be re-numbered 28 and be extended to the Eden Project Go Cornwall Bus 26 Service retimed to work with service 21 on most journeys, providing cross St Austell links. Route remains unchanged Go Cornwall Bus 27 First journey operated by Go Cornwall Bus from St Austell will start at St Austell Aldi and operate via Bethel Chapel, before St Austell Bus Station. The similar journey provided by First Kernow is withdrawn. All other journeys operated by GCB remain unchanged. The First Kernow Journey at 0719 (Schooldays) 0729 (School Holidays) St Austell Aldi – Truro will now commence from Trinity Street at 0706 (Schooldays), 0716 (School Holidays) First Kernow supported by Go Cornwall Bus. 28 Introduction of Sunday service between St Austell and Eden Project Travel Cornwall. Sundays operated by Go Cornwall Bus 30 No Planned Changes Go Cornwall Bus 31 No Planned changes Travel Cornwall 33 No Planned changes OTS 34 Pm timetable amended at accommodate changes of school times at Mullion School therefore the current journey departing Helston at 1440 will terminate at Mullion School on Schooldays. The service is rerouted within Redruth to serve Falmouth Rd, A393 and Westey Rd before Redruth Station. Journeys will depart Barncoose slightly earlier than the current timetable and follow the reverse of the above leaving Redruth Go Cornwall Bus 35/A/63 No Planned changes OTS 36/A Revisions to school journeys AM and PM. The 36 journeys for Penair School will no longer divert via Devoran which will instead be served by service 36S Go Cornwall Bus 36S Journeys for Penair School will start/end at Gwennap Church instead of Redruth and now serve Devoran in place of the service 36. Journeys for Redruth School are unchanged Go Cornwall Bus 37 First journey to commence at Seven Stars instead of Tesco at 0845 to meet local requests Go Cornwall Bus 38 The current journey from Porthleven to Helston meeting service 34 for Cornwall College is withdrawn with the link to Cornwall College instead provided by the service departing Helston at 0735 and running via Porthleven before Sithney. Changes to the session times at Camborne S&I Academy result in the current 1455 journey from the school will depart at 1510 and terminate at Helston Seven Stars at 1544 Go Cornwall Bus 39/A Changes to the session times at Camborne S&I Academy result in the current 1435 39A from Camborne running 15 minutes later throughout Go Cornwall Bus 40 No significant change to timetable other than the 1750 from Redruth will terminate at Treliske Hospital Go Cornwall Bus 42 No planned changes OTS 46 No planned changes Go Cornwall Bus 48/49 No planned changes to service 48 Service 49 will no longer operate services to/from Camborne S&I Academy from Black Rock. These journeys will now operate as 49S. This will provide additional capacity at school times and standardise the timetable for most journeys throughout the day Go Cornwall Bus 50/51 No planned changes Go Cornwall Bus 56 No significant changes to Monday to Friday other than to accommodate revised session times at Tretherras. School, but Saturdays will revert to off peak summer timetable with journeys running through to/from Padstow every 2 hours with links to Newquay Airport retained hourly Go Cornwall Bus 58 No planned changes Go Cornwall Bus 59/A No planned changes Go Cornwall Bus 60 No planned changes OTS 63/64/65 No planned changes OTS 66/466 No planned changes OTS 67 No planned changes OTS 69/A No planned changes OTS 70/A/B Service renumbered so main service is 70 Additional PM journey added from Torpoint CC to Millbrook. Revised departure times from Plymouth between 1600 and 1825 to reduce the 1h 25 minute gap in timetable. Sunday service reduced to 2 hourly for winter period with the withdrawal of short journeys between HMS Raleigh and Plymouth Go Cornwall Bus 71 Timetable adjusted during peak periods to improve reliability, with significant running time added Go Cornwall Bus 72 Service renumbered 10 and timetable adjusted to provide 30 minute headway between Plymouth and Saltash with services 11 and 12 and hourly to Trerulefoot with service 11 Go Cornwall Bus 72A This service between Plymouth & Saltash will be withdrawn. Go Cornwall Bus 73/A A completely revised timetable to provide improved links across Liskeard will be introduced. Service will operate 2 hourly on the 73 and 2 hourly on the 73A. This will maintain an hourly service between Duloe, Sandplace and Liskeard, via the Railway Station and the 73 will provide an hourly service between Looe and Polperro when combined with the 2 hourly service 10. 73A will continue to operate through to Polperro but will not serve Widegates running direct between Sandplace and Looe Go Cornwall Bus 74 Core 2 hourly service between Liskeard and Callington retained but retimed to connect with service 73 in Liskeard. This will provide a link from the Railway Station to places beyond Liskeard. Current journey which terminates at St Cleer have been extended to Pensilva, providing an hourly service between Liskeard, St Cleer and Pensilva. In Callington the service will continue to Tesco, St Dominick and Ashton. This enables most journeys on service 12 to now operate a more direct route. Additional journeys have been added later into the evening Go Cornwall Bus 75 Minor timetable change – the 1745 from Torpoint will terminate at Widegates at 1835 Go Cornwall Bus 75A These two school journeys are now part of service 11 timetable Go Cornwall Bus 77 Timetable revised to provide an hourly headway between Liskeard to Trago Mills when combined with service 11 Go Cornwall Bus 78/A No planned changes Go Cornwall Bus 79/A No planned changes Go Cornwall Bus 84 No Planned changes Go Cornwall Bus 85 No significant changes other than providing additional journeys to serve Richard Lander School and retiming the 0700 from Truro accommodate session time changes at Tretherras School. Sunday service to continue as current timetable Go Cornwall Bus 85 No planned changes Stagecoach SW 88 No planned changes Go Cornwall Bus 89 Section of route between Bodmin and St Columb Major removed due to very low use. New service 90 to operate two hourly from Wadebridge to Truro via St Columb Major improving connectivity from North Cornwall to Truro from services 11, 95 and 96 Go Cornwall Bus 90 New service 90 to operate two hourly between Wadebridge and Truro Go Cornwall Bus 91 No planned changes First Kernow on Monday to Saturday and Go Cornwall Bus on Sundays 92 Service replaces the section of route between Wadebridge and Newquay currently on service 95. The service operates 2 hourly to provide an hourly headway between Wadebridge and St Columb Major with service 90. An hourly service us maintained between Newquay and St Columb Major and when combined with services 21 and 91, 3 buses per hour between St Columb Minor and Newquay Go Cornwall Bus 93/94 No significant changes to these services Go Cornwall Bus 95 Revised timetable to provide better connections in Wadebridge to service to Truro and Newquay Winter timetable to be introduced from late October. Go Cornwall Bus 96 The 06.50 from Bodmin to Camelford is withdrawn and from Camelford to Wadebridge is retimed. The 09.15 from Wadebridge is retimed 20 minutes later at 09.35 Go Cornwall Bus 96A/B/S No planed changes Go Cornwall Bus 97/S Revised timetable between school times to reduce number of journeys currently offered in line with passenger demand. Go Cornwall Bus 128/129/218/ 219 Journeys on 129 which continue to Stratton Hospital and Kilkhampton will be renumbered 219 throughout to prevent customer confusion. Timetable to show 219 operating via Valley Road. The first journey from Poughill to Hartland will operate 5 minutes earlier to improve connections at Hartland with services to Bideford. Go Cornwall Bus 220 No Planned Changes Go Cornwall Bus 223 No Planned Changes Go Cornwall Bus 304 No Planned Changes Hopley’s coaches 306 Removal of journey at 1530 between Launceston and Callywith (operates as 176) Go Cornwall Bus 315 No planned changes Hopley’s coaches 319 Amendments to improve reliability, additional journeys will also be added and an improved connection on the last journey with the 219 at Hartland. Stagecoach SW 371 No planned changes Go Cornwall Bus 372 No planned changes Go Cornwall Bus 373 No planned changes Go Cornwall Bus 405 No planned changes Travel Cornwall 423 No planned changes Travel Cornwall 425 No planned changes Travel Cornwall 426 Retime 15.25 from Launceston College between Menheniot Crescent and Langdon Cross to prevent bus waiting time. No other changes Go Cornwall Bus 450-455 Following customer feedback some services will be revised including provision of journeys from Menheniot to Liskeard on a second day of the week and revision of the current Quethiock journeys to serve Liskeard instead of Saltash. Operated by Saltash Red Bus 481/482 No planned changes Travel Cornwall 484/485/493/494/495/496 Truro City Services No planned changes Travel Cornwall Lands' End Coaster From 1st Oct this service will only operate between Penzance and Lands End for the Winter Period. First Kernow Sunseeker, Atlantic Coaster and Falmouth Coaster From the 1st October these services will not operate for the winter period First Kernow G1/2/3 No planned changes Gorran Bus

Changes to U1/U1A Service From the 24th July

From 24th July, due to the ongoing roadworks on the A30 we have taken the difficult decision to split the U1/U1A service at Truro.

The reason we are doing this is to maintain the reliability of these services, while we have additional summer traffic and the ongoing roadworks on the A30, we have agreed a timetable with Cornwall council that will have a minimal impact for most customers.

The services will be split Monday to Saturday daytime when we are experiencing most delays. At quieter times buses will continue to operate through as they do now.

Departures from Falmouth, Truro and Newquay remain at the same published times in the current timetable books, but daytime services running between Truro & Newquay in both directions will arrive at the next stop after crossing the works at Chiverton up to 10 minutes later than is currently advertised.

We will endeavour to allow connections from services from Falmouth to Truro to allow passengers to get to the hospital as an example on the departing U1/U1A, but through fares will be available to any available service to allow the customer journey to continue.

Services arriving from Newquay passengers will need to change for the next departure towards Falmouth.

News and service updates | First Bus

 

[Goldfish62]

First Bus have announced service changes on social media & their website effective from September. The list also includes details of services from other operators under The Transport for Cornwall (TfC) banner.

Full details are shown below:-








News and service updates | First Bus

Significant cuts are the 17 moving to every 45 min off peak and the withdrawal of the Land's End Coaster on the Land's End - St Ives - Penzance section, which leaves large parts of the Land's End to St Ives section with no bus service whatsoever.

 

[Andyh82]

Significant cuts are the 17 moving to every 45 min off peak and the withdrawal of the Land's End Coaster on the Land's End - St Ives - Penzance section, which leaves large parts of the Land's End to St Ives section with no bus service whatsoever.

The key to that 17 change is when is the summer timetable reintroduced, will it be Easter, or May. I’m guessing it’s fairly quiet in the winter but I wouldn’t want to see that lower frequency creeping into the start of the summer

The St Ives to Lands End route does have the 16A and also the Tin Coaster over most parts of the route. Historically was there much of a service in winter? I’m guessing it’s a very sparsely populated area.

 

[richw]

Historically was there much of a service in winter?

No, just a few Hamlets served by a community minibus. All the main villages with more than a few houses are served by either the tin coaster or 16a

 

[Snozzel]

They are 20 seaters. This one in summercourt

 

[Goldfish62]

No, just a few Hamlets served by a community minibus. All the main villages with more than a few houses are served by either the tin coaster or 16a

It was covered by Council supported services. West Penwith Community Bus Association just happened to win the route on tender when Western Greyhound folded.

GoCornwall Route 7 (Land's End to Zennor) replaced West Penwith route 007 at the inception of TfC, but was withdrawn when the Land's End Coaster started covering the route during the Winter.

The sections left uncovered are Sennen to St Just and Pendeen to Gurnards Head. The only way to get from Sennen to St Just will be to go into Penzance and back out again. Or drive.

The key to that 17 change is when is the summer timetable reintroduced, will it be Easter, or May. I’m guessing it’s fairly quiet in the winter but I wouldn’t want to see that lower frequency creeping into the start of the summer.

I'm not surprised about the reduction. In terms of usage the 17 is a shadow of its former self. I guess that's symptomatic of the present day inhabitants of St Ives and Carbis Bay. Few locals left and all car owners. The last time the route ran at less than 2bph in the winter was in the early 1980s.

Every 45 minutes is a very unattractive frequency because it can't be memorised and needs constant reference to a timetable. However, half-hourly with 2 PVR isn't possible and running at a clockface hourly wouldn't save any resource and would be inefficient. So, the lesser of two evils had been gone for I guess.

The only route left at Penzance which really washes its face during the winter is The Mousehole. And that's had its reputation damaged by the very poor reliability so far this year - hopefully about to remedied.

 

[JD2168]

They are 20 seaters. This one in summercourt

These are very similar to what South Pennine Community Transport use on their rural routes in South/West Yorkshire.

 

[Goldfish62]

These are very similar to what South Pennine Community Transport use on their rural routes in South/West Yorkshire.

There are two versions. 17 seats in the standard van, or 20 seats with a bit of an extension.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Great news.


37241/2/4 reported as on the way however 37241 broke down and is at Taunton depot. I don’t know anything about any more coming.

First Bus have announced service changes on social media & their website effective from September. The list also includes details of services from other operators under The Transport for Cornwall (TfC) banner.

Full details are shown below:-








News and service updates | First Bus

Disappointing moves but perhaps not surprising in the current climate.

However, wondering if these and other recent moves with First South West would've happened under the previous regime. Feels like the growth agenda might have been overtaken by battening down the hatches; quite some change from 2021 when elderly open toppers were being sourced for all manner of speculative schemes. Mind you, I did say that they were kissing a lot of frogs, and not all would turn into Princes.

I'm not surprised about the reduction. In terms of usage the 17 is a shadow of its former self. I guess that's symptomatic of the present day inhabitants of St Ives and Carbis Bay. Few locals left and all car owners. The last time the route ran at less than 2bph in the winter was in the early 1980s.

Every 45 minutes is a very unattractive frequency because it can't be memorised and needs constant reference to a timetable. However, half-hourly with 2 PVR isn't possible and running at a clockface hourly wouldn't save any resource and would be inefficient. So, the lesser of two evils had been gone for I guess.

The only route left at Penzance which really washes its face during the winter is The Mousehole. And that's had its reputation damaged by the very poor reliability so far this year - hopefully about to remedied.

It is a sadly regressive move but understandable. 45 min headway is perhaps the trickiest of headways to keep abreast of. Even every 40 mins is better but again not feasible with two vehicles.

 

[richw]

Mind you, I did say that they were kissing a lot of frogs, and not all would turn into Princes.

But at least one of those frogs has turned into a goldmine, that being the exmoor coaster.
The open top introduction to the Atlantic coaster has also been a relatively successful one if loadings i witnesses last summer are anything to go by

 

[Fin447]

But at least one of those frogs has turned into a goldmine, that being the exmoor coaster.
The open top introduction to the Atlantic coaster has also been a relatively successful one if loadings i witnesses last summer are anything to go by

the Atlantic coaster was very busy last year

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

But at least one of those frogs has turned into a goldmine, that being the exmoor coaster.
The open top introduction to the Atlantic coaster has also been a relatively successful one if loadings i witnesses last summer are anything to go by

the Atlantic coaster was very busy last year

It was only my opinion at the time but I thought that Exmoor Coaster might have a chance as it had a reasonable history as the 300 even in Cawlett days. That said, the way in which it took off far exceeded what I thought was likely so hats off - a latent market, good marketing and good execution and it's been superb. The Atlantic Coaster was the other one that I thought might do well, as it had the backbone of the 56 anyway as well as a lot of established tourist spots.

I was dubious about Falmouth, only because it had been tried and withered on the vine. That said, it had been poorly marketed and suppose that it really required a proper bit of marketing which seems to have made it a modest success?

The ones I thought were pups were the Exeter Tour and the Lizard open tops. Simply, I just didn't think there were the tourist numbers (I seem to recall a Lizard based poster imploring me to think otherwise) to justify a service.

The tricky one was Dartmoor Explorer. Like Exmoor, I thought (based on history) that a decent potential market might exist. I don't know it's issues... is fitting it around schools/college workings and a level of tampering meaning it hasn't got established? Has reliability been a problem?

Might be just perception (wrongly) but that a bit of the drive in FSW has gone with Alex Carter and Marc Morgan-Huws departing, and a less local management focus.