1992 stock Refurbishment?

[Sad Sprinter]

All this is cosmetic, the current refurbishments are to extend the service life of the units by changing their traction packages and adding on board displays

I know it's cosmetic, but still want to know the thinking.

Like the sound of the traction motors and the current announcers voice, that and the lack of on board displays, can give the central line a uniquely mellow aura compared to other tube lines.

 

[Recessio]

I know it's cosmetic, but still want to know the thinking.

Like the sound of the traction motors and the current announcers voice, that and the lack of on board displays, can give the central line a uniquely mellow aura compared to other tube lines.

I somehow don't think the "aura" trumps the reliability and accessibility of the trains respectively.

 

[Wolfie]

I somehow don't think the "aura" trumps the reliability and accessibility of the trains respectively.

Absolutely. Rather too many people seem to obsess about the "nice" at the potential expense of the "essential".

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Absolutely. Rather too many people seem to obsess about the "nice" at the potential expense of the "essential".

"Rather too many people" meaning, train enthusiasts? The ones who populate this site?

I have a deeper affection for railways beyond its bare essentials, which for some reason is deemed a bit fanciful here.

 

[Wolfie]

"Rather too many people" meaning, train enthusiasts? The ones who populate this site?

I have a deeper affection for railways beyond its bare essentials, which for some reason is deemed a bit fanciful here.

Re your second para l agree but frankly seat moquette colours are hardly the biggest issue facing the Underground.

 

[357]

Why were the Central Line trains, when refurbished about 10 years ago, given a less aesthetically pleasing appearance than they had done previously?

I mean, the removal of the darkened front ends to a standard all read design just doesn't look right on those trains, and the removal of the red moquette, which fit in with the colour of the grab poles, to the light blue seating pattern which has always been a colour clash, it's puzzling to me.

The front end was done to reduce water leaks, wind noise, and improve HVAC air retention.

 

[XAM2175]

I have a deeper affection for railways beyond its bare essentials, which for some reason is deemed a bit fanciful here.

Not at all - but you do look more than a touch naïve when you suggest that LUL should sacrifice reliability, longevity, and RVAR compliance in order to preserve a line's "mellow aura".

 

[Nym]

1992TS won’t comply with RVAR anyway.
Seats are too low, grab rails are too thin, door thresholds are wrong…

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Not at all - but you do look more than a touch naïve when you suggest that LUL should sacrifice reliability, longevity, and RVAR compliance in order to preserve a line's "mellow aura".

Oh I didn't mean they should not make the changes, just lamenting the effect they would have

 

[AzureOtsu]

"Rather too many people" meaning, train enthusiasts? The ones who populate this site?

I have a deeper affection for railways beyond its bare essentials, which for some reason is deemed a bit fanciful here.

Think about it from the perspective of cash strapped TFL, they want to have these trains going for as long as possible, the "vibe" is the least of their concern. If these were heritage units and they were destroying their original charm I think people would understand.

These are in service units that serve a practical purpose and after time these units will wear out and need a refurbishment, and if you think about it, the general passenger will probably appreciate them having more or less up to date features. Also from a service perspective, ditching the ageing DC traction package makes a lot of sense.

Much like the BREL 465s, even if they are not in their as built condition, they will still kinda retain their 90s charm.

 

[XAM2175]

1992TS won’t comply with RVAR anyway.
Seats are too low, grab rails are too thin, door thresholds are wrong…

Yes I should have written "improvements to compliance".

Oh I didn't mean they should not make the changes, just lamenting the effect they would have

For what it's worth, I agree it would have been nice if they'd kept the grey "mask" on the cab fronts, as it's not much work and they have the grey paint in stock anyway, but at the same time I can understand that it's still an entirely superfluous task.

 

[bramling]

Absolutely. Rather too many people seem to obsess about the "nice" at the potential expense of the "essential".

One way or other, the Central Line’s users aren’t too keen on aspects of the 92 stock, as this stock apparently has consistently scored worst on the combine when it comes to passenger satisfaction.

The drab blue moquette clearly has a depressing effect. ISTR installing it was a rush job to attempt to make the stock look more presentable for the olympics. So 10+ years down the line I’d say replacing the moquette with a more agreeable colour is justifiable.

 

[Goldfish62]

One way or other, the Central Line’s users aren’t too keen on aspects of the 92 stock, as this stock apparently has consistently scored worst on the combine when it comes to passenger satisfaction.

The drab blue moquette clearly has a depressing effect. ISTR installing it was a rush job to attempt to make the stock look more presentable for the olympics. So 10+ years down the line I’d say replacing the moquette with a more agreeable colour is justifiable.

Well of course. The natural expectation is that the seat moquette would be replaced and the collapsed seat cushions refoamed.

When the 1996 stock was refurbished a few years ago there was actually a lag of a year or so before the the seat moquette was replaced.

 

[Nym]

One way or other, the Central Line’s users aren’t too keen on aspects of the 92 stock, as this stock apparently has consistently scored worst on the combine when it comes to passenger satisfaction.

The drab blue moquette clearly has a depressing effect. ISTR installing it was a rush job to attempt to make the stock look more presentable for the olympics. So 10+ years down the line I’d say replacing the moquette with a more agreeable colour is justifiable.

Does TfL's aparrent lack of concern on this indicate that those in the 'design office' have moved onto other things to needlessly re-design to justify their continued existence?

Ref. to the 2010s when TfL was burning millions on what colour fabrics to use on rolling stock that can't even make it off the depot in a morning and has light fittings falling on passengers heads.

 

[Goldfish62]

Ref. to the 2010s when TfL was burning millions on what colour fabrics to use on rolling stock that can't even make it off the depot in a morning and has light fittings falling on passengers heads.

Which trains were those? Bakerloo?

 

[Nym]

Which trains were those? Bakerloo?

Yep. Must make it look pretty at the end of the structural repairs or it's not worth doing.

The "Increased Passenger Satisfation" from different floor shape and colour was used as part of the business case. Apparently passengers on them lines care what the trains look like.

 

[321over360]

Has there been any progress with the first trains going through the CLIP yet?

 

[Dstock7080]

Train 3 undergoing two weeks of DTS (data transmission system) testing completed with some issues to resolve with a software update.

Brake blend testing on Ruislip depot test road with new AC traction package completed.
Also, installed the first ACT Auxiliary Power Unit (1 of 4), on the lift road, this was successful due to great collaboration between the depot, TMU Trains Maintenance Unit and the project team

 

[Blindtraveler]

All sounds positive, looking forward to riding one of these in service soon

 

[A60stock]

Is there an update on the date for entry to service?

Also will this be a case where units only enter service once BOTH interior modifications and new motors/traction packages are added or will you have some units in service where one is done but the other is not (e.g. refurbished train with old motors).

Finally, is any work being done to the paintwork i.e. will the trains appear shiny on the outside when complete (assuming re-livery or major clean)?

 

[Dstock7080]

All released units will need to have the motor and internal modifications before entering service and run together.
Trains will not be repainted but have a heavy external clean and polish.

 

[321over360]

All released units will need to have the motor and internal modifications before entering service and run together.
Trains will not be repainted but have a heavy external clean and polish.

Hopefully the heavy clean removes the increasing amount of carriages that have graffiti on the outside of the trains.

Also be good to maybe see the amount of built up dirt gone from the trains too as they are so filthy

 

[A60stock]

What's the reason they're not being re livered when the 95 and 96ts were?

 

[Nym]

There’s no money left.

There wasn’t money to do very high BCR work either, no matter when they’re told to be done

 

[NSEWonderer]

On a transport discord of mine someone managed to record a refurbed 1992 stock doing testing. Station staff called it a special train on the video and explained a few things but for the purpose of not having both the recorder and the staff's voice the parts have been cut out. Anyway conversation mentioned the new Displays, you can see slightly in the vid at the start before the train then departs.

Sounds like they have similar motors to the S stock which tbh is a surprise as I thought they'd got the 2009 route.

 

[pbin]

On a transport discord of mine someone managed to record a refurbed 1992 stock doing testing. Station staff called it a special train on the video and explained a few things but for the purpose of not having both the recorder and the staff's voice the parts have been cut out. Anyway conversation mentioned the new Displays, you can see slightly in the vid at the start before the train then departs.

Sounds like they have similar motors to the S stock which tbh is a surprise as I thought they'd got the 2009 route.

I thought the 09 Stock and S Stock share the same motors. The S Stock just sounds different because of it's (usually) slower acceleration.

 

[Dstock7080]

I thought the 09 Stock and S Stock share the same motors. The S Stock just sounds different because of it's (usually) slower acceleration.

They both have Bombardier Mitrac, although different versions:
LT201 2009 Stock
MJB_200-93 S Stock

 

[NSEWonderer]

Yup as Dstock says. The LT201 pulls much more aggressively to me than the MJB_200-93 version. I assume its mostly down to gear ratio too but its got a noticeably shorter phase transition.

 

[thomalex]

I thought the 09 Stock and S Stock share the same motors. The S Stock just sounds different because of it's (usually) slower acceleration.

The S stock does now accelerate at full speed between Victoria and Temple and is closer to the 09 stock. It is a bigger and presumably heavier train however so it’s never going to be quite the same.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Aug 2023 ==

On a transport discord of mine someone managed to record a refurbed 1992 stock doing testing. Station staff called it a special train on the video and explained a few things but for the purpose of not having both the recorder and the staff's voice the parts have been cut out. Anyway conversation mentioned the new Displays, you can see slightly in the vid at the start before the train then departs.

Sounds like they have similar motors to the S stock which tbh is a surprise as I thought they'd got the 2009 route.

So it seems the windows are just being left as they are. I had hoped we’d see something similar to the Piccadilly with the now covered sections of the windows getting some form of panel over them and the heavy tint removed now it is less necessary.

The tinted windows are one of my big bares with the Central making the trains seem gloomy.

 

[NSEWonderer]

I may be wrong but wasnt the Tinted windows a way of reducing the greenhouse effect?