Merseyrail legacy fleet updates (Class 507/508)

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Is 127 definitely stood down then?

 

[cjbirkett]

I've been around Merseyrail and not seen it anywhere. The doors were down on Birkenhead North so you couldn't see in from passing trains. Only 508 103 was outside.

No 507/8s on Kirkdale when I went past there.

 

[MR-507508]

Scrap move paths are on RTT with the move taking place tomorrow afternoon from Birkenhead North E.M.U.D with an overnight stay at Crewe South Yard.

Realtime Trains | 0N38 0627 Wembley H.S. to Birkenhead North E.M.U.D | 03/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 0N38 0627 departure from Wembley H.S. to Birkenhead North E.M.U.D on 03/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q42 1354 Birkenhead North E.M.U.D to Shrewsbury | 03/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q42 1354 departure from Birkenhead North E.M.U.D to Shrewsbury on 03/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q78 1158 Crewe South Yard to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) | 04/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q78 1158 departure from Crewe South Yard to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) on 04/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Poyntz]

Scrap move paths are on RTT with the move taking place tomorrow afternoon from Birkenhead North E.M.U.D with an overnight stay at Crewe South Yard.

Realtime Trains | 0N38 0627 Wembley H.S. to Birkenhead North E.M.U.D | 03/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 0N38 0627 departure from Wembley H.S. to Birkenhead North E.M.U.D on 03/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q42 1354 Birkenhead North E.M.U.D to Shrewsbury | 03/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q42 1354 departure from Birkenhead North E.M.U.D to Shrewsbury on 03/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q78 1158 Crewe South Yard to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) | 04/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q78 1158 departure from Crewe South Yard to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) on 04/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

5Q42 cape Loco Salop.

 

[8A Rail]

5Q42 cape Loco Salop.

Would assume it would take up 5Q78 path from Shrewsbury tomorrow, it saves going to and from Crewe just to arrive at the same location you pass through day before with same train.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

5Q42 cape Loco Salop.

Do you know what's up with it?

 

[Poyntz]

Do you know what's up with it?

Sorry, no, RTT shows it cape FL that's all I know.

 

[meld3]

Units split from loco in P7 Shrews according to other sources.

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Units split from loco in P7 Shrews according to other sources.

Oh dear! They don't want to go! Hopefully it can be fixed!

 

[The_Train]

Units split from loco in P7 Shrews according to other sources.

Which units are on the move?

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Which units are on the move?

507005 and 508127. A cable snapped apparently.

 

[samrammstein]

Which units are on the move?

37884 + 507005 + 508127

__________________________________________________

This is the current status of the 507/8 fleet as I have it, any corrections appreciated.

507 DMSO TSO BDMSO
507001 64367 71342 64405 In Service
507002 64368 71343 64406 In Service
507003 64369 71344 64407 In Service
507004 64388 71345 64408 In Service
507005 64371 71346 64409 Scrapped 08 / 23
507006 64372 71347 64410 Scrapped 09 / 21
507007 64373 71348 64411 In Service
507008 64374 71349 64412 Scrapped 05 / 23
507009 64375 71350 64413 In Service
507010 64376 71351 64414 In Service
507011 64377 71352 64415 In Service
507012 64378 71353 64416 Scrapped 07 / 23
507013 64379 71354 64417 In Service
507014 64380 71355 64418 In Service
507015 64381 71356 64419 In Service
507016 64382 71357 64420 In Service
507017 64383 71358 64421 In Service
507018 64384 71359 64422 In Service
507019 64385 71360 64423 Scrapped 03 / 23
507020 64386 71361 64424 In Service
507021 64387 71362 64425 In Service
507023 64389 71364 64427 In Service
507024 64390 71365 64428 Scrapped 04 / 23
507025 64391 71366 64429 Scrapped 04 / 23
507026 64392 71367 64430 In Service
507027 64393 71368 64431 Scrapped 05 / 23
507028 64394 71369 64432 In Service
507029 64395 71370 64433 In Service
507030 64396 71371 64434 In Service
507031 64397 71372 64435 In Service
507032 64398 71373 64436 In Service
507033 64399 71374 64437 In Service

508 DMSO TSO BDMSO
508103 64651 71485 64694 In Service
508104 64652 71486 64695 In Service
508108 64656 71490 64699 In Service
508110 64658 71492 64701 Scrapped 08 / 20
508111 64659 71493 64702 In Service
508112 64660 71494 64703 In Service
508114 64662 71496 64705 In Service
508115 64663 71497 64706 Scrapped 07 / 23
508117 64665 71499 64708 In Service
508120 64668 71502 64711 In Service
508122 64670 71504 64713 Scrapped 03 / 23
508123 64671 71505 64714 Scrapped 02 / 22
508124 64672 71506 64715 In Service
508125 64673 71507 64716 In Service
508126 64674 71508 64717 In Service
508127 64675 71509 64718 Scrapped 08 / 23
508128 64676 71510 64719 In Service
508130 64678 71512 64721 In Service
508131 64679 71513 64722 In Service
508134 64682 71516 64725 Scrapped 08 / 20
508136 64684 71518 64727 In Service
508137 64685 71519 64728 In Service
508138 64686 71520 64729 In Service
508139 64687 71521 64730 In Service
508140 64688 71522 64731 Scrapped 10 / 22
508141 64689 71523 64732 In Service
508143 64691 71525 64734 Scrapped 09 / 22

 

[Jacob Porrett]

Realtime Trains | 5Q78 1324 Shrewsbury to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) | 04/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q78 1324 departure from Shrewsbury to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) on 04/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Merseyrail scrap move this afternoon with 37884, 507005 and 508127.

5Q78 has been cancelled at Shrewsbury because the fitter couldn't fix the problems. 507005 and 508127 are still at Shrewsbury and 37884 is on the way to Derby for repairs currently working 0M37 14:14 Shrewsbury English Bridge Junction to Derby RTC Serco. The PEP's live on another day.

The PEPs will be on the Salop over the weekend until Monday.

 

[The_Train]

Realtime Trains | 5Q78 1324 Shrewsbury to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) | 04/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q78 1324 departure from Shrewsbury to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) on 04/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Merseyrail scrap move this afternoon with 37884, 507005 and 508127.

5Q78 has been cancelled at Shrewsbury because the fitter couldn't fix the problems. 507005 and 508127 are still at Shrewsbury and 37884 is on the way to Derby for repairs currently working 0M37 14:14 Shrewsbury English Bridge Junction to Derby RTC Serco. The PEP's live on another day.

The PEPs will be on the Salop over the weekend until Monday.

Thanks for the update Jacob

 

[Ribbleman]

Realtime Trains | 5Q78 1324 Shrewsbury to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) | 04/08/2023

Real-time train running information for 5Q78 1324 departure from Shrewsbury to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) on 04/08/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Merseyrail scrap move this afternoon with 37884, 507005 and 508127.

5Q78 has been cancelled at Shrewsbury because the fitter couldn't fix the problems. 507005 and 508127 are still at Shrewsbury and 37884 is on the way to Derby for repairs currently working 0M37 14:14 Shrewsbury English Bridge Junction to Derby RTC Serco. The PEP's live on another day.

The PEPs will be on the Salop over the weekend until Monday.

As previously pointed out, the 507 and 508 fleets are not PEPs. There were only ever three PEP sets, designs such as 313/314/315/507/508 are merely derived from lessons learned through constructing and operating the PEPs. The first P stands for Prototype. It is important to make this distinction to avoid confusion. I have been travelling on 507 units since they were new. No train crew or maintenance staff that I have spoken to has ever referred to them as PEPs. The simple reason being that they are not.

 

[The_Train]

As previously pointed out, the 507 and 508 fleets are not PEPs. There were only ever three PEP sets, designs such as 313/314/315/507/508 are merely derived from lessons learned through constructing and operating the PEPs. The first P stands for Prototype. It is important to make this distinction to avoid confusion. I have been travelling on 507 units since they were new. No train crew or maintenance staff that I have spoken to has ever referred to them as PEPs. The simple reason being that they are not.

If I said to you "Merseyrail PEP", would you know what I was talking about?

 

[gka472l]

From a posting on the Mersey Railways 2.0 group on Facebook, the next few scrap moves are pasted below

A regular question so here is an update . 005 + 127 leaving BKN 1356 3/8 stabling in Crewe before onward to Sims on 4/08, 009 +138 leave 0956 17/08 straight to Sims, 026 + 126 leave 31st 0956 straight to Sims, 128 + 111 leave 0956 7/09 straight to Sims 117+130 leave 0956 11/09 straight to Sims , so by 12th Sept we will be down to a fleet of 35. 30 of these will be required for traffic each day, the remaining 12 x 508s will all be withdrawn by early December.

009 is on the Chester line this evening as I've just come home on it, likely my last trip on that one.....

HTH

 

[Ribbleman]

If I said to you "Merseyrail PEP", would you know what I was talking about?

That’s not the point. Individuals have every right to concoct nicknames for any type of train, though it seems rather pointless for a class in course of withdrawal. Referring to 507/508 units as PEPs is not only factually incorrect but it risks causing confusion in the minds of those enthusiasts who may read about them in the future. Having authored a book about electric trains on Merseyside I was careful to make clear distinctions between different classes of unit. Although this is a discussion forum rather than a work of reference, in the interests of historical accuracy it is important not to perpetuate falsehoods.

 

[Ianigsy]

128 + 111 leave 0956 7/09 straight to Sims

111? Interesting…..

 

[prod_pep]

Strange that, 508111 for scrap. I thought that unit was "100% confirmed for preservation"?

 

[contrex]

That’s not the point. Individuals have every right to concoct nicknames for any type of train

I get curious about 'Southern' style designations like 'WES' for class 442s and 'JOP' for class 458s (and GAT for the 460s?). Is there any official basis for them? And why aren't 455, 456, and the various Electrostars similarly nicknamed?

 

[43096]

I get curious about 'Southern' style designations like 'WES' for class 442s and 'JOP' for class 458s (and GAT for the 460s?). Is there any official basis for them? And why aren't 455, 456, and the various Electrostars similarly nicknamed?

The 458s had 4-JOP on the data panels from memory - they certainly have 5-JUP now.

At the time of introduction JOP was said to stand for "Jump Out and Push", rather than the official(?) "Juniper Outer-suburban Porterbrook".

 

[8A Rail]

If I said to you "Merseyrail PEP", would you know what I was talking about?

Being a local to the area, a straight answer to your question is simply NO! People / Enthusiasts who are local to the area, have never called them PEP's since their introduction to the Mersey system. To make things clearer, I certainly never heard this term PEP until recently due to particular withdrawals of Southern stock and I was wondering what people were on about!

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Strange that, 508111 for scrap. I thought that unit was "100% confirmed for preservation"?

Was all rumours. Nothing ever confirmed. We'll have to wait and see if one is preserved.

 

[bramling]

I get curious about 'Southern' style designations like 'WES' for class 442s and 'JOP' for class 458s (and GAT for the 460s?). Is there any official basis for them? And why aren't 455, 456, and the various Electrostars similarly nicknamed?

I’m sure I recall the class 455 were, or were going to be, 4HIT, but that one seems to have faded out of use.

I agree with the general view that as far as the 313/314/315/507/508 fleets go PEP-derived is fine, but PEP is inaccurate.

 

[The_Train]

Being a local to the area, a straight answer to your question is simply NO! People / Enthusiasts who are local to the area, have never called them PEP's since their introduction to the Mersey system. To make things clearer, I certainly never heard this term PEP until recently due to particular withdrawals of Southern stock and I was wondering what people were on about!

How ridiculous! Of course you would know what I was referring to.
Are the Merseyrail units not derived from the actual class 445 and class 446 PEPs, just like the Class 313, 315 etc? I've not seen people calling those out who call 313s or 315s PEPs but yet for some reason people get very upset about it when discussing Merseyrail units. It's just pedantry for the sake of pedantry - if I called them "Merseyrail derived from PEP units", would that be acceptable?

 

[315801]

If I remember correctly, the term PEP stands for Prototype Electro Pneumatic, the 445 and 446 units were prototypes for what became the 313, 314, 315, 507 & 508 units totalling 755 coaches between the 5 classes, therefore these classes are derivatives of the 445 and 446 units and were the production units just like the class 41 HST Powercars were prototypes for the HST locomotives and the class 43s were the production powercars so to put this to bed here and now, the 445s and the 446 were prototypes and the 313, 314, 315, 507 & 508 were the production units.

Hopefully that settles this debate.

 

[8A Rail]

How ridiculous! Of course you would know what I was referring to.
Are the Merseyrail units not derived from the actual class 445 and class 446 PEPs, just like the Class 313, 315 etc? I've not seen people calling those out who call 313s or 315s PEPs but yet for some reason people get very upset about it when discussing Merseyrail units. It's just pedantry for the sake of pedantry - if I called them "Merseyrail derived from PEP units", would that be acceptable?

Ridiculous or not, that is your thought and opinion, which I will respect, exactly in the same way you should respect mine.

With regards to your question, the answer is still NO. You just don't get it do you, they are just Merseyrail EMU's, Units, Class 507's, or Class 508's, but never been called PEPs! Shall we move on.

 

[Pacef8]

Used the local trains for years and never heard them called pep. The beatles one is passing us today. I thought that had gone last werk.

 

[prod_pep]

PEP-derived or just 507/8s works fine. They are not prototypes, so they aren't 'PEPs'.