Merseyrail legacy fleet updates (Class 507/508)

[Liverpool 507]

Hi all,

Looked at all other Merseyrail 507/508 fleet discussions but threads have been locked so have created this new thread for the time being. Posted on the Mersey Railways group on Facebook that 508143 will be leaving Kirkdale in the early hours of Tuesday morning and going to Derby R.T.C. via Seaforth Docks, Liverpool South Parkway (HL) and Crewe. The unit is going for life extension assessment which isn't surprising with no driver and guards working methods agreed on the 777s and the mileage getting high for some 508s.

Here are the paths: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:42934/2022-05-31/detailed (Kirkdale - Seaforth Docks) and https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K03605/2022-05-31/detailed (Seaforth Docks - Derby R.T.C.)

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Hi all,

Looked at all other Merseyrail 507/508 fleet discussions but threads have been locked so have created this new thread for the time being. Posted on the Mersey Railways group on Facebook that 508143 will be leaving Kirkdale in the early hours of Tuesday morning and going to Derby R.T.C. via Seaforth Docks, Liverpool South Parkway (HL) and Crewe. The unit is going for life extension assessment which isn't surprising with no driver and guards working methods agreed on the 777s and the mileage getting high for some 508s.

Here are the paths: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:42934/2022-05-31/detailed (Kirkdale - Seaforth Docks) and https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:K03605/2022-05-31/detailed (Seaforth Docks - Derby R.T.C.)

Umm someone in MerseyRail or LCA hasn't got much confidence over the 777's!

 

[Liverpool 507]

508143 is one of the five 508 face mask branded units that is earmarked as one of the next units to be scrapped from network.

 

[Speed43125]

508143 is one of the five 508 face mask branded units that is earmarked as one of the next units to be scrapped from network.

So to clarify its condition is being assessed, and if in relatively good condition this could be postponed?

 

[Liverpool 507]

So to clarify its condition is being assessed, and if in relatively good condition this could be postponed?

143 is one of few units with high mileage, so this will be to determine if a life extension is worth the extra cost of keeping the unit running in the meantime. I don’t think Merseyrail and Stadler are in a position to withdraw any more 507/8s without the 777s entering service, with 507006, 508110 and 508134 all scrapped.

 

[D821]

What work can Derby RTC perform on the unit that Merseyrail themselves can't?

 

[Ribbleman]

What work can Derby RTC perform on the unit that Merseyrail themselves can't?

Presumably perform metallurgical or other testing requiring specialised equipment.

 

[D821]

Ah, that makes sense. Thank you.

 

[prod_pep]

I imagine this assessment will determine if 508143 is in good enough nick to continue for a period without having to be fully overhauled, so 508140 will be another needing imminent assessment. Another 508 on high mileage will be 508122, which I think was last overhauled around or just after Christmas 2016.

As regards the 507s, surely overhauls will continue for a while to come as the plan is to retain some of these the longest anyway. Following 507016, the likes of 507007 and 507027, possibly 507023 as well, should be amongst the next for overhaul work going by the previous cycle.

 

[Liverpool 507]

With the unit availability being quite tight at the moment with a number out of service, a half hourly service is in place on the New Brighton line and the extra Wirral peak time trains to Ellesmere Port are cancelled, along with all Wirral six car services short formed temporarily.

37601 & 37611 have arrived at Kirkdale with translator vehicles.

 

[507020]

37601 & 37611 have arrived at Kirkdale with translator vehicles.

I’ve decided to go and see them at Crewe so I may have pictures

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

With the unit availability being quite tight at the moment with a number out of service, a half hourly service is in place on the New Brighton line and the extra Wirral peak time trains to Ellesmere Port are cancelled, along with all Wirral six car services short formed temporarily.

37601 & 37611 have arrived at Kirkdale with translator vehicles.

how short are they to have implemented that service cutback?

 

[jamesst]

how short are they to have implemented that service cutback?

18 units out of traffic

 

[507020]

18 units out of traffic

Which is down from only 3 out of traffic on Grand National day and 2 the day before

 

[D821]

Ouch. It all sounds like there could be quite a problem building. It doesn't sound like they'll have the 777s in service for when Royal Liverpool hosts The Open next year.

 

[DJH1971]

Ouch. It all sounds like there could be quite a problem building. It doesn't sound like they'll have the 777s in service for when Royal Liverpool hosts The Open next year.

They may as well hand back all the 777's back to Stadler the way things are heading, as they are becoming more and more of a white elephant.

 

[kemal]

18 units out of traffic. Can anyone confirm which ones these are please?

 

[507020]

They may as well hand back all the 777's back to Stadler the way things are heading, as they are becoming more and more of a white elephant.

They haven't even been handed over from Stadler to Merseytravel.

37601 & 37611 have arrived at Kirkdale with translator vehicles.

37601 & 37611 were seen at Crewe with translator vehicles returning to Derby RTC, but with 508143 nowhere to be found. The driver said it is at Alexandra Dock but I don't know why.

 

[Tynwald]

scrap

 

[Bertie the bus]

scrap

That's a novel way of assessing life extension works.

It did seem a bit strange Kirkdale - Derby via the docks. There have been a lot of movements to/from Kirkdale over the last couple of years and none have gone via the docks.

 

[8A Rail]

It has been reported the Unit was left at Seaforth CT which is well over a mile away from EMR Scrap Sidings at Alexandra Dock. In fact the train would have to go pass the sidings (and access point) to get to Seaforth CT. It is a strange place to take it unless the Unit (part or complete) is being road transported somewhere else?

 

[L401CJF]

It has been reported the Unit was left at Seaforth CT which is well over a mile away from EMR Scrap Sidings at Alexandra Dock. In fact the train would have to go pass the sidings (and access point) to get to Seaforth CT. It is a strange place to take it unless the Unit (part or complete) is being road transported somewhere else?

This was my first thought too. Is it in such a condition that it cannot be moved by rail for whatever reason and is to be moved by road?

 

[507020]

My money is on road transport from Seaforth somewhere other than scrap, but sending a pair of 37s from Derby to move a 508 from Kirkdale to Seaforth seems excessive.

 

[aleandrail]

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[8A Rail]

My money is on road transport from Seaforth somewhere other than scrap, but sending a pair of 37s from Derby to move a 508 from Kirkdale to Seaforth seems excessive.

No alternative as I do not think Kirkdale TMD / CS has the space to transport a 'coach' in and out of the depot by road. A pair of loco's (top and tail mode) is required for at least three reversal movements.

 

[Skymonster]

Can a third rail unit even be moved to Derby without prep work - perhaps someone forgot to unbolt the electrical gubbins…

 

[507020]

No alternative as I do not think Kirkdale TMD / CS has the space to transport a 'coach' in and out of the depot by road. A pair of loco's (top and tail mode) is required for at least three reversal movements.

I am aware of the lack of road access to Kirkdale depot compared to Seaforth CT, but I meant was there not a suitable pair of locos closer than Derby capable of performing such a short movement albeit with all the reversals?

Can a third rail unit even be moved to Derby without prep work - perhaps someone forgot to unbolt the electrical gubbins…

I am confused as to why our assumption was that it would be moved to Derby by rail. Perhaps that was the intention?

 

[Bertie the bus]

I am confused as to why our assumption was that it would be moved to Derby by rail. Perhaps that was the intention?

It clearly wasn't the intention to move it to Derby but to move it to the docks. There were 3 paths - Derby - Kirkdale, Kirkdale - Seaforth and Seaforth - Derby. They all ran roughly to time so what happened is obviously what was planned to happen. By the look of it it was just another example of someone seeing paths in the system, guessing (incorrectly) and posting something on Facebook.

 

[TrainTrackJack]

Correct me if I'm wrong but they took 507006 from Seaforth after it's drag, so it'd make sense to drag it there for being loaded onto a low loader (Kirkdale having access issues IIRC)