• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

New XC contract - what changes would you like to see?

Status
Not open for further replies.

class397tpe

Member
Joined
22 Jan 2022
Messages
167
Location
Cambridge
I was hoping we'd get an good enhancement, instead seems just a replacement of the HSTs capacity so the severe overcrowding of the past 20 years will continue. What a disappointing contract.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

paulmch

Member
Joined
20 Dec 2018
Messages
154
The MR article says that XC are to study future opportunities for its Turbostar routes. This would be a stretch without additional units, or some slack being taken up elsewhere. Could the Cardiff - Edinburgh route become the start of the end for the 170 Cardiff-Notts route?
 

Peterthegreat

Established Member
Joined
22 Feb 2021
Messages
1,570
Location
South Yorkshire
The MR article says that XC are to study future opportunities for its Turbostar routes. This would be a stretch without additional units, or some slack being taken up elsewhere. Could the Cardiff - Edinburgh route become the start of the end for the 170 Cardiff-Notts route?
No. Any views on what 170s would be used for is speculation. This thread states specifically "not speculation.
 
Last edited:

TT-ONR-NRN

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2016
Messages
11,694
Location
Salford Quays, Manchester
So unhelpful to just put a flat “No.” , without explaining the reason to the member.

The MR article says that XC are to study future opportunities for its Turbostar routes. This would be a stretch without additional units, or some slack being taken up elsewhere. Could the Cardiff - Edinburgh route become the start of the end for the 170 Cardiff-Notts route?
Cardiff Edinburgh is almost certainly the same sort of thing as the daily Cardiff Manchester was. Instead of starting one at Bristol Temple Meads, they’re starting it at nearby (by comparison to other places) Cardiff to advertise direct connections.
 

185

Established Member
Joined
29 Aug 2010
Messages
5,511
4 car sets on the Birmingham Manchester, all under the wires needs to go.

I'd hazard a guess that Northern or West Mids could run a better service with a pair of 323s or even dustbin 319s
 

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
17,775
4 car sets on the Birmingham Manchester, all under the wires needs to go.

I'd hazard a guess that Northern or West Mids could run a better service with a pair of 323s or even dustbin 319s
How is it going to be better? just a different train in the same path.
 

Energy

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2018
Messages
4,962
4 car sets on the Birmingham Manchester, all under the wires needs to go.

I'd hazard a guess that Northern or West Mids could run a better service with a pair of 323s or even dustbin 319s
The current Birmingham Manchester situation is difficult to replace as the service also provides connections to the South Coast and Reading from Birmingham and Coventry. Birmingham NS to Manchester only would lose connections from Coventry to Manchester and the South Coast and connections at Birmingham Intl.

Running a train from Manchester to Birmingham Intl or Coventry would be difficult to terminate and still lose Coventry's direct service to the South Coast and Reading.
GC have said nothing at all on the subject of taking any further 221s so any guess they're taking 8 more is complete speculation.
GC still need their Track Access Agreement extended before taking on any more stock.
 

12LDA28C

Established Member
Joined
14 Oct 2022
Messages
5,058
Location
The back of beyond
Oh that's really poor. I was hoping we'd get an good enhancement, instead seems just a replacement of the HSTs capacity so the severe overcrowding of the past 20 years will continue. What a disappointing contract.

Really? On what basis were you hoping there would be a 'good enhancement' of XC services? Until the announcement about AWC Voyagers transferring, there was no replacement quoted for the HSTs.
 

class397tpe

Member
Joined
22 Jan 2022
Messages
167
Location
Cambridge
Really? On what basis were you hoping there would be a 'good enhancement' of XC services? Until the announcement about AWC Voyagers transferring, there was no replacement quoted for the HSTs.
I was hoping they'd use the opportunity a new contract provides (rather than extensions as before) to finally begin to sort out the overcrowding that's plagued XC for the past 20 years. I'm not sure why my "hope" needs to have a basis?
 

12LDA28C

Established Member
Joined
14 Oct 2022
Messages
5,058
Location
The back of beyond
I was hoping they'd use the opportunity a new contract provides (rather than extensions as before) to finally begin to sort out the overcrowding that's plagued XC for the past 20 years. I'm not sure why my "hope" needs to have a basis?

Hope works better when it has a basis in reality and what's gone before. Did you hope or expect a change of operator on the route? Or that a new fleet of trains would be ordered to replace the Voyagers or something? They are only halfway through their design life at this stage.
 

Mamorin

Member
Joined
21 Sep 2020
Messages
287
Location
Cheshire
Its nice to see XC getting more voyagers and doing a full refurb of their Voyager and Turbostar fleets.

I just wish XC would look at all the calls they cut in 2020 and reinstate the ones that make sense to reinstate.
 

Bartsimho

Member
Joined
17 Jan 2023
Messages
623
Location
Chesterfield
The Cardiff to Edinburgh service puzzles me. Realistically, given cost and time, there will be precious few passengers travelling between the two capital cities given cheaper fares will be available from Bristol Airport (Loganair from Cardiff appears rather more expensive than Easyjet from Bristol.)

So what will the one train a day achieve? There's already good connectivity as far as Derby with the hourly XC service. One through train to the Yorkshire and the North East would appear a rather limited improvement, that's hardly likely to excite the South Wales travelling public when there's a reasonable hourly service with cross platform connection at Bristol Parkway (and of course, from west of Cardiff that one change will still be required, whether at Cardiff or Bristol Parkway).
It'll be nice if it stops at Chesterfield again after they cut the call on NE to SW services as it would strengthen services to Sheffield at 5tph and services to Derby at 3tph and re-instate the direct Birmingham service as that allows for much better interchange. Also strengthening Burton calls would be good as 2tph for Derby to Burton is too few considering they are commuter distance. Could also stop Worcestershire Parkway if it routes straight down which people wanted in the thread about Worcestershire Parkway
 

The Planner

Veteran Member
Joined
15 Apr 2008
Messages
17,775
It'll be nice if it stops at Chesterfield again after they cut the call on NE to SW services as it would strengthen services to Sheffield at 5tph and services to Derby at 3tph and re-instate the direct Birmingham service as that allows for much better interchange. Also strengthening Burton calls would be good as 2tph for Derby to Burton is too few considering they are commuter distance. Could also stop Worcestershire Parkway if it routes straight down which people wanted in the thread about Worcestershire Parkway
Good luck with that, though I have heard chatter about Worcestershire Parkway which has surprised a few including me.
 

ChrisC

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2018
Messages
1,973
Location
Nottinghamshire
It'll be nice if it stops at Chesterfield again after they cut the call on NE to SW services as it would strengthen services to Sheffield at 5tph and services to Derby at 3tph and re-instate the direct Birmingham service as that allows for much better interchange. Also strengthening Burton calls would be good as 2tph for Derby to Burton is too few considering they are commuter distance. Could also stop Worcestershire Parkway if it routes straight down which people wanted in the thread about Worcestershire Parkway
Cutting the Chesterfield stops has not been good especially as it provided an easy same platform connection for journeys to and from Nottingham. Now everyone is having to change at Sheffield which is not such a convenient same platform connection. Chesterfield station also has such a wide catchment area for passengers in both North Derbyshire and North Nottinghamshire. Most of the trains now seem to have a longer dwell time at Derby so I don’t see the need to miss out Chesterfield.
 

The Ham

Established Member
Joined
6 Jul 2012
Messages
11,039
Would halving the first class sections to add more standard class seating help at all?

Whilst first class seats have more legroom, in not sure you'd gain many extra rows in half the length.

Currently there's 16 seats difference between first and standard class end coaches, about 10 of those are due to being 2+2 Vs 2+1, so that's about 1 extra row, so over half the length you may just about squeeze 1 extra row in.

However you'd then lose capacity to facilitate a disabled space within the first class area (unless you have a tiny standard section at the nose end of the coach).

Either way it's not so that useful. If there was first class extending into a second coach that would be a different matter.
 

sprinterguy

Veteran Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
11,324
Location
Macclesfield
It'll be nice if it stops at Chesterfield again after they cut the call on NE to SW services as it would strengthen services to Sheffield at 5tph and services to Derby at 3tph and re-instate the direct Birmingham service as that allows for much better interchange.
There is a direct Chesterfield - Birmingham service, every 2 hours out of (mostly) alternate NE-SW services. Can't reinstate what's already there.
 

class397tpe

Member
Joined
22 Jan 2022
Messages
167
Location
Cambridge
Hope works better when it has a basis in reality and what's gone before. Did you hope or expect a change of operator on the route? Or that a new fleet of trains would be ordered to replace the Voyagers or something? They are only halfway through their design life at this stage.
I was hoping they'd take on more than 7 ex-avanti Voyagers. Preferably the 18 units that will become available once the Class 805 enter service. This would make a meaningful impact to capacity and allow a reduction in 4-car running, which is frankly embarrassing.

Considering the growth in passenger numbers that the CrossCountry has seen since Arriva got the contract in 2008 (and have been routinely unable to accommodate), and the boost in leisure travel since covid, you would think additional capacity, with the same type of train they already operate, would be logical.
 

ChrisC

Established Member
Joined
7 Oct 2018
Messages
1,973
Location
Nottinghamshire
There is a direct Chesterfield - Birmingham service, every 2 hours out of (mostly) alternate NE-SW services. Can't reinstate what's already there.
Cross Country used to stop at least hourly at Chesterfield, so the pre covid full service can be reinstated.
 

class397tpe

Member
Joined
22 Jan 2022
Messages
167
Location
Cambridge
Hopefully with new seats! But I doubt it.

The new standard class seats in the Pendolinos have been transformative in increasing legroom and reducing the claustrophobic atmosphere of the carriages, making them feel so much more spacious.
 

sprinterguy

Veteran Member
Joined
4 Mar 2010
Messages
11,324
Location
Macclesfield
Cross Country used to stop at least hourly at Chesterfield, so the pre covid full service can be reinstated.
Though both your and Bartsihmo's posts seem to read to the uninitiated as if Chesterfield has no calls in North East - South West XC services. I thought it worth clarifying for any readers less familiar with the route.
 
Last edited:

The Ham

Established Member
Joined
6 Jul 2012
Messages
11,039
I was hoping they'd take on more than 7 ex-avanti Voyagers. Preferably the 18 units that will become available once the Class 805 enter service. This would make a meaningful impact to capacity and allow a reduction in 4-car running, which is frankly embarrassing.

Considering the growth in passenger numbers that the CrossCountry has seen since Arriva got the contract in 2008 (and have been routinely unable to accommodate), and the boost in leisure travel since covid, you would think additional capacity, with the same type of train they already operate, would be logical.

Assuming 4 units to replace the 2 diagrammed HST's per day or leaves 3 for extra capacity, week probably actually 2 as one would likely be a spare.

Use one of those "new" 5 coach units to replace a 4 coach.

Add that 4 coach to another 4 coach to replace a 5 coach service.

Put that 5 coach on the duties of the 4 coach unit.

That's 3 diagrams improved from 1 "new" unit, so 6 diagrams seeing an improvement.

It's a shame a deal couldn't be done to swap the 4 coach 221's at XC with 5 coach units which would presumably end up in storage.
 

rjames87

Member
Joined
9 Apr 2010
Messages
73
Assuming 4 units to replace the 2 diagrammed HST's per day or leaves 3 for extra capacity, week probably actually 2 as one would likely be a spare.

Use one of those "new" 5 coach units to replace a 4 coach.

Add that 4 coach to another 4 coach to replace a 5 coach service.

Put that 5 coach on the duties of the 4 coach unit.

That's 3 diagrams improved from 1 "new" unit, so 6 diagrams seeing an improvement.

It's a shame a deal couldn't be done to swap the 4 coach 221's at XC with 5 coach units which would presumably end up in storage.
I think the issue remains of certain platforms not being able to take 10 coach trains so a larger fleet of 5 cars means less doubling up.
 

stu

Member
Joined
3 Mar 2012
Messages
80
Location
Stratford-upon-Avon
Does this mean any restoration of the stops at Brockenhurst? Looking at the timetable, the service takes as long Bmth-Soton whether it stops at Brock or not. So why not stop there and reopen the links back up from further north to a national park?
 

Baz2000

Member
Joined
30 Apr 2023
Messages
24
Location
Birmingham
Hi All good to see that XC have got a long term contract, hopefuly will see an improvement from Birmingham to the south west eg torbay and cornwall, and maybe longer trains eg 6-8 cars long or longer on key routes eg 8 to 10 plus an improved timetable and more onboard services eg meal or buffet car.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top