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National Express Coaches Discussion

Smethwickian

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Service 260 Stansted Airport to Canterbury (University of Kent) to be withdrawn, last day 30 September. This takes Chatham, Maidstone and Bexleyheath off the NX network.
Service 184 Liverpool to Edinburgh last day 1 October.
Many other minor timetable tweaks and slight reduction in some more frequent routes for end of summer.
 
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dan5324

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260 was such a silly idea. An awfully long route that goes from nowhere to nowhere. Often delayed and low patronage.
 

Robertj21a

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I saw last Wednesday night that a 450 from London to Nottingham had to divert through Melton Mowbray, a rather hefty diversion and probably added 40 minutes or so to the journey. This was due to the closure of the A46/A453 for roadworks and traffic on the M1 north of Leicester. I feel like the driver showed great local knowledge of the roads
Presumably a Woods or Skills driver. Both would know the Melton area.
 

londonteacher

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Service 260 Stansted Airport to Canterbury (University of Kent) to be withdrawn, last day 30 September. This takes Chatham, Maidstone and Bexleyheath off the NX network.
Service 184 Liverpool to Edinburgh last day 1 October.
Many other minor timetable tweaks and slight reduction in some more frequent routes for end of summer.
The overnight services such as the 2am from Chatham were often well used as it got people to Stansted in time for early morning flights.

It’s a shame that it’s lost, especially as Hempstead Valley is not the easiest place to get to at that time of night for services via London.
 

Bwsbro

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The overnight services such as the 2am from Chatham were often well used as it got people to Stansted in time for early morning flights.

It’s a shame that it’s lost, especially as Hempstead Valley is not the easiest place to get to at that time of night for services via London.
Second time an airport route to Kent has failed, do I remember right that the original service ran to Gatwick?
 

markymark2000

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260 was such a silly idea. An awfully long route that goes from nowhere to nowhere. Often delayed and low patronage.
You say that but it does link to a major airport. Links from Kent to the airports is awful and especially if the M5 is going as is suggested on the Megabus thread. That leaves Kent with 1 bus per day to an airport. That being the 006 to Heathrow. Surely people from Kent go on planes?


Second time an airport route to Kent has failed, do I remember right that the original service ran to Gatwick?
I wonder why airport routes don't do as well in Kent.
 

johncrossley

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I wonder why airport routes don't do as well in Kent.

Most other airport routes come from heavily populated places that are quite far from London, such as the West Midlands, Cardiff, Bristol and Bournemouth. There aren't such major population centres in Kent and most of Kent is covered very well by suburban rail. The distance from the Medway towns to London and airports isn't so great so there isn't such an extortionate train fare to undercut. Train fares are somewhat higher from East Kent but the towns in that region aren't huge. Off-peak you have Network Railcard discounts, which is particularly useful for Gatwick. Peak train fares from Cardiff/Birmingham/Bournemouth etc. are eye-watering by comparison.

From all those other places, it is easier to get to Heathrow than central London, so the coach has more of a chance of offering a reasonable journey time. They go to Gatwick as well, but Heathrow is the most important destination. These coaches can also be used by passengers who just want to go between Heathrow and Gatwick and they are able to charge a premium fare for this direct connection.

From Kent, by contrast, you have to traverse nearly half the M25 to get to Heathrow, so compared to going through central London it isn't that quick. In addition you can't serve Gatwick with the same coach without a massive time penalty.
 

JonathanH

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The distance from the Medway towns to London and airports isn't so great so there isn't such an extortionate train fare to undercut. Train fares are somewhat higher from East Kent but the towns in that region aren't huge. Off-peak you have Network Railcard discounts, which is particularly useful for Gatwick.
I don't think anyone should get the impression that there is a large flow of passengers using trains to get from Kent to Gatwick or Heathrow. People use taxis to get to airports, drive or get dropped off.
 

johncrossley

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I don't think anyone should get the impression that there is a large flow of passengers using trains to get from Kent to Gatwick or Heathrow. People use taxis to get to airports, drive or get dropped off.

Of course. Coaches are therefore competing with trains for the remaining (limited) market.
 
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Service 260 Stansted Airport to Canterbury (University of Kent) to be withdrawn, last day 30 September. This takes Chatham, Maidstone and Bexleyheath off the NX network.
That's a shame, it's been useful a couple of times for me to get to Stansted for an early flight, including in two weeks time.
 

Blindtraveler

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I'm really unhappy about the loss of the 260. It's busier than a lot of people may think and whilst I can understand it might be lost making at times if they tweaked the timetable as we have suggested on a number of occasions it would pay I'm sure and not only is it a useful link to an airport that is now gone but a strike day alternative that is also now broken. Not happy and we'll be making a complaint
 

paul1609

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You say that but it does link to a major airport. Links from Kent to the airports is awful and especially if the M5 is going as is suggested on the Megabus thread. That leaves Kent with 1 bus per day to an airport. That being the 006 to Heathrow. Surely people from Kent go on planes?



I wonder why airport routes don't do as well in Kent.
Basically if you want to go from most of Kent to Stansted you get the train (hs1) to Stratford International walk down the road and get the frequent coach A9 etc to Stansted. My local stop for the 260 was Maidstone. The service ran about 4 times a day and took a whopping 2 hours to reach Stratford, sorry that's never going to be a goer.
 

Eyersey468

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What happened to National Express's plan from Feb 2020 that "We will lead the transition to zero emission coaches" and "Hold an in-service trial of an electric coach on our Stansted Airport service". Source: https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/news/national-express-group-sets-out-zero-emission-vision

Why hasn't this been revived post-Covid, now the coach network is back to full health?
I believe they are looking into zero emission coaches,I was told the plan is they will use electric coaches on the shorter distance runs and are looking into hydrogen for the longer distance stuff as the electric coaches on the market don't have the range that is needed, for example the runs we do are Hull to London mostly and nothing has enough range to get there and back on one charge. Charging in London isn't feasible due a) to the time penalties and b) there's not the space for everything to charge in London
 

dan5324

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What happened to National Express's plan from Feb 2020 that "We will lead the transition to zero emission coaches" and "Hold an in-service trial of an electric coach on our Stansted Airport service". Source: https://nxbus.co.uk/west-midlands/news/national-express-group-sets-out-zero-emission-vision

Why hasn't this been revived post-Covid, now the coach network is back to full health?
The vehicle was completely unsuitable. Had much less luggage space due to the battery.
 

dmncf

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Shame that an electric coach can't cover the range of a typical National Express route (e.g. Hull to London as mentioned by Eyersey468) but it's also ruled out of the London to Stansted Airport route due lack of luggage space (as mentioned by dan5324), as this route (or Luton Airport) would be the obvious example of a shorter distance National Express route. I assume that the coach considered was a Yutong TCe12. I wonder if the tri-axle Yutong GTe14 would be any better - press article about this model here: https://www.route-one.net/features/electric-tri-axle-marks-a-natural-evolution-for-ember-network/
 

borage

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The 025 (Worthing - Brighton - Gatwick - London) has been registered as a bus service (PD0000738/351) effective from 20 October
From: Gatwick Airport, North Terminal, Gatwick Airport
To: Marine Parade, Worthing, Stop A, Worthing
Via: Brighton
Name or No.: 025
Service type: Limited Stop
Effective date: 20 October 2023
Other details: Daily except Christmas Day.
I wonder what are the reasons for and implications of this?
 

PG

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The 025 (Worthing - Brighton - Gatwick - London) has been registered as a bus service (PD0000738/351) effective from 20 October

I wonder what are the reasons for and implications of this?
Comparing the timetables (now v 20th Oct) it appears that the on the hour ex Victoria departures are duplicated with the dupe no longer having pick up restrictions thus bringing it into the scope of being a local bus service hence needing to be registered.

Unsure of the reasons why, presumably customer demand?
 

markymark2000

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Comparing the timetables (now v 20th Oct) it appears that the on the hour ex Victoria departures are duplicated with the dupe no longer having pick up restrictions thus bringing it into the scope of being a local bus service hence needing to be registered.

Unsure of the reasons why, presumably customer demand?
The 'dupe' is because the timetable overlap and NatEx haven't put an end date on the 'current' timetable.
As for why, it's a really strange move for NatEx as they did all this pre Covid and then stopped it so they could focus on the distance passengers. In some ways though, it is a case of filling empty seats. Yes it's not a lot of extra revenue but it's all money in the pot and why not, after all it's an empty seat. All you need now is NatEx to not charge the earth for onboard ticket sales and then if NatEx is the first bus to come along, you can just jump on it and pay the driver.



One of the benefits of them registering it though is that now, you can make stupid journeys and upset all of the passengers. Anyone fancy Brighton Withdean Park to Brighton Preston Park? 2 minute journey, £2? Or

Photo below shows the National Express site offering journeys between Brighton Withdean Park to Brighton Preston Park for £2
 

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Deerfold

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The 'dupe' is because the timetable overlap and NatEx haven't put an end date on the 'current' timetable.
As for why, it's a really strange move for NatEx as they did all this pre Covid and then stopped it so they could focus on the distance passengers. In some ways though, it is a case of filling empty seats. Yes it's not a lot of extra revenue but it's all money in the pot and why not, after all it's an empty seat. All you need now is NatEx to not charge the earth for onboard ticket sales and then if NatEx is the first bus to come along, you can just jump on it and pay the driver.



One of the benefits of them registering it though is that now, you can make stupid journeys and upset all of the passengers. Anyone fancy Brighton Withdean Park to Brighton Preston Park? 2 minute journey, £2? Or

Photo below shows the National Express site offering journeys between Brighton Withdean Park to Brighton Preston Park for £2

Used to be quite handy for making very late medium distance journeys like Leeds to Bradford after the train service had finished for the night.

And of course, National Express should be able to claim BSOG (Bus Services Operators Grant).
 

markymark2000

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Used to be quite handy for making very late medium distance journeys like Leeds to Bradford after the train service had finished for the night.

And of course, National Express should be able to claim BSOG (Bus Services Operators Grant).
It makes sense between big areas and where there could be reasonable traffic flows such as Leeds/Bradford but the local stops between Brighton and Worthing seems a bit odd.
 

gray1404

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Brighton services
1. Yet they do not need to accept concessionary passes on the "local route" by virtue of the fact seats can be reserved.

2. Liverpool to Edinburgh services
Is it true these will be stopping shortly?

3. Assistance Request Response Time
I've been informed that NX are replying to requests for assistance in date order of travel and they aim to get back to you 2 days before your journey. Their online form reflects this.

This may sound good but that means you waiting a long time for confirmation if you request in advance and hear back last minute. Does this mean they are dealing with a lot of contacts at the moment?
 

Blindtraveler

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Wish NX had tried this with the 260 Canterbury to Stansted, maybe even killing off 50% of the airport runs and terminating at Stratford or maybe even North Greenwich, the service at the Kent end definitely was used and definitely paid and I'll bet you every journey tomorrow we'll be stuffed fall to the rafters with the rail strike.
 

Smethwickian

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Brighton services
1. Yet they do not need to accept concessionary passes on the "local route" by virtue of the fact seats can be reserved.

2. Liverpool to Edinburgh services
Is it true these will be stopping shortly?

3. Assistance Request Response Time
I've been informed that NX are replying to requests for assistance in date order of travel and they aim to get back to you 2 days before your journey. Their online form reflects this.

This may sound good but that means you waiting a long time for confirmation if you request in advance and hear back last minute. Does this mean they are dealing with a lot of contacts at the moment?
Withdrawal of service 184 mentioned in post 721 above, so yes it is being withdrawn.

And yes, the assisted travel team is extremely busy but has a robust system for ensuring requests are dealt with fairly in time for the journey. By all means put in a request whenever you book, even if it is weeks ahead, but it won't be dealt with ahead of more imminent journeys.

Knowing how prone to delays service 025 is, and knowing how often drivers don't have working ticket machines or up-to-date booking charts, all I can say to any potential passengers looking to take advantage of a local journey between Worthing, Hove and Brighton, is 'good luck with that'.
 

markymark2000

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And yes, the assisted travel team is extremely busy but has a robust system for ensuring requests are dealt with fairly in time for the journey. By all means put in a request whenever you book, even if it is weeks ahead, but it won't be dealt with ahead of more imminent journeys.
Please no one take this as me being rude, I am just wanting to understand. I ask how many of the requests which go through to the assisted travel team actually need to go to them? NatEx vehicles are set up ready for wheelchairs straight away. All buses should have the necessary equipment anyway because that's a PSVAR requirement. Most accessibility aids should fit under the bus with ease. The only issues that I could ever foresee are some stops not being accessible (but that should be mentioned anyway ahead of booking). Turn up and go is literally the law now, no assistance has to be pre booked and if the railways are anything to go by, prebooking doesn't exactly do much except make people aware which kind of makes a mockery of turn up and go if you have to make people aware beforehand. I know that some people would have needs which aren't as easily catered for and so I am not canvassing to rid the team or anything like that, I am more curious as to why they get so many enquiries when most assisted travel comes under the existing law. You don't drop Tesco an email before you go in for your weekly shop with your wheelchair, you just turn up and go shopping. No one alerts local bus operators to them needing a wheelchair space, they just turn up and go. Why is the attitude so different still for intercity coaches?
 

Smethwickian

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Please no one take this as me being rude, I am just wanting to understand. I ask how many of the requests which go through to the assisted travel team actually need to go to them? NatEx vehicles are set up ready for wheelchairs straight away. All buses should have the necessary equipment anyway because that's a PSVAR requirement. Most accessibility aids should fit under the bus with ease. The only issues that I could ever foresee are some stops not being accessible (but that should be mentioned anyway ahead of booking). Turn up and go is literally the law now, no assistance has to be pre booked and if the railways are anything to go by, prebooking doesn't exactly do much except make people aware which kind of makes a mockery of turn up and go if you have to make people aware beforehand. I know that some people would have needs which aren't as easily catered for and so I am not canvassing to rid the team or anything like that, I am more curious as to why they get so many enquiries when most assisted travel comes under the existing law. You don't drop Tesco an email before you go in for your weekly shop with your wheelchair, you just turn up and go shopping. No one alerts local bus operators to them needing a wheelchair space, they just turn up and go. Why is the attitude so different still for intercity coaches?
Correct, all vehicles should be accessible, even when hired at short notice for breakdown cover of other issues. However, there are size and weight limits on all vehicles as regards the wheelchair lift and wheelchair space which can be an issue with, how can I put this delicately, the combination of a larger customer and larger powered chair. Also, not all battery types (when it comes to powered chairs and buggies) can be carried, whether onboard or stowed underneath. Even different versions of Levantes have slightly different sized wheelchair spaces.
If the customer does make their request in advance, all these can be checked and the team goes through any issues with the operator to ensure they are aware that, for example, they must use a Levante 3 rather than a 2 where available for that trip. Otherwise the team will look to alternatives. A customer profile can be created ready for any future journeys, too.
Having notes on the booking chart and journey plan that a passenger with additional needs is booked will also help in the event of disruption because, again, accessibility can already be factored in if replacement vehicles or taxis end up being arranged by controllers.
The law requires reasonable adjustments be made to provide accessibility, and it does not seem entirely unreasonable that the company tries to avoid the risk of delay or inconvenience to passengers if adjustments or alternative arrangements have to be made without prior warning.
Stopping places are indeed an issue because apart from a few well-equipped coach stations, NX has to find safe suitable places in hundreds of other locations where it is dependent on infrastructure and road layouts dictated by scores of local authorities and other bus companies, and often has no say over changes or disruption to them.
To put it more simplistically in relation to your point above, the layout of Tesco's doors and aisles is unlikely to change much from day to day. The same can't be said for a fleet of road vehicles which is renewed over time and comes from a range of different suppliers, no matter how much a 100% standardised fleet would be ideal.
 
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route101

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Brighton services
1. Yet they do not need to accept concessionary passes on the "local route" by virtue of the fact seats can be reserved.

2. Liverpool to Edinburgh services
Is it true these will be stopping shortly?

3. Assistance Request Response Time
I've been informed that NX are replying to requests for assistance in date order of travel and they aim to get back to you 2 days before your journey. Their online form reflects this.

This may sound good but that means you waiting a long time for confirmation if you request in advance and hear back last minute. Does this mean they are dealing with a lot of contacts at the moment?
Surprised at the 184 finishing, I seen it load up at Glasgow and was busy. Perhaps it could be a summer only route.
 

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