What else should have been included in 'Network North' ?

[Halifaxlad]

As the title suggests what else do you think or feel should have been included in 'Network North' ?

Ill start:

1. Reopening the Ingleton line or creating a new line and electrifying it all the way to Skipton!
2. A new line from Selby - Hull via Market Weighton
3. A new station for Otley, the largest town in West Yorkshire without a station!
4. Further electrification from Ravensthorpe - Wakefield Kirkgate - Church Fenton also the Woodlesford line into Leeds.
5. Funding for Halifax Station Gateway
6. An upgrade and electrification of the Harrogate line!

 

[zwk500]

What are you imagining the purpose of Network North to be (other than a set of lies thrown out in blind panic, which is it's actual purpose) for the purposes of this thread?

 

[JonathanH]

As the title suggests what else do you think or feel should have been included in 'Network North' ?

Given the list of items included in 'Network North' includes many projects which have no chance of happening, including more would be even worse.

 

[zwk500]

Worth remembering Network North was intended to cover road as well as rail and tp cost less than the cancelled section of HS2

 

[stuu]

Some money. Some consultation. Some ideas not thought up the night before

 

[Sad Sprinter]

what else do you think or feel should have been included in 'Network North' ?

A reason to vote Conservative.

 

[Matt P]

HS2 Phase 2

 

[aavm]

Upgrade the Manchester Oxford Road line (ETCS, grade separated junctions, reopen the Ardwick/Ancoats curve) to give a Elizabeth Line for the north, with north/south and east/west trains running through Central Manchester.
No gold plating like rebuilding Piccadilly.
Plenty of change from £36 billion.

 

[Pacco]

HS2 Phase 2

This plus platform 15/16 at Piccadilly and rolling electrification programme on all railways.

 

[maxk2510]

Some provisions for Cheshire might have been nice (apart from the NWML electrification), considering they're missing out on having HS2 running right through with a hub station in Crewe

 

[faltskog36abba]

Upgrade the Manchester Oxford Road line (ETCS, grade separated junctions, reopen the Ardwick/Ancoats curve) to give a Elizabeth Line for the north, with north/south and east/west trains running through Central Manchester.
No gold plating like rebuilding Piccadilly.
Plenty of change from £36 billion.

I agree with all the above, If only.

 

[Dave Beeching]

As the title suggests what else do you think or feel should have been included in 'Network North' ?

Ill start:

1. Reopening the Ingleton line or creating a new line and electrifying it all the way to Skipton!
2. A new line from Selby - Hull via Market Weighton
3. A new station for Otley, the largest town in West Yorkshire without a station!
4. Further electrification from Ravensthorpe - Wakefield Kirkgate - Church Fenton also the Woodlesford line into Leeds.
5. Funding for Halifax Station Gateway
6. An upgrade and electrification of the Harrogate line!

There's a problem with these options though if you want to stay true to the Network North plans; all of them are actually in the North!

 

[Krokodil]

There's a problem with these options though if you want to stay true to the Network North plans; all of them are actually in the North!

Better add a bridge to the Scilly Isles just for good measure.

 

[jonesy3001]

Where would the line come from if they rebuilt the otley line, coming from both the harrogate line or the ilkley line since both old lines have either been built on, some bridges demolished and tunnels filled and the old line into where the station was is now a bypass.

 

[Neptune]

Where would the line come from if they rebuilt the otley line, coming from both the harrogate line or the ilkley line since both old lines have either been built on, some bridges demolished and tunnels filled and the old line into where the station was is now a bypass.

Remember that most ideas for these things don’t involve looking at maps from after 1970 so things that weren’t insurmountable then are blindly deemed the same today.

Mention of things like peoples houses of potentially 30-40 years that are built on old trackbeds are normally fair game for enthusiast demolition just to put the map back to how it looked pre-Beeching.

On the subject of Otley then Menston has always been used as a railhead. Only a short 10 minute drive away that would be nearly as quick as driving to the old out of town Otley station. The car park has been extended a couple of times over the years. Does the Otley to Menston railway station bus still run to meet the Leeds trains?

 

[jonesy3001]

Remember that most ideas for these things don’t involve looking at maps from after 1970 so things that weren’t insurmountable then are blindly deemed the same today.

Mention of things like peoples houses of potentially 30-40 years that are built on old trackbeds are normally fair game for enthusiast demolition just to put the map back to how it looked pre-Beeching.

On the subject of Otley then Menston has always been used as a railhead. Only a short 10 minute drive away that would be nearly as quick as driving to the old out of town Otley station. The car park has been extended a couple of times over the years. Does the Otley to Menston railway station bus still run to meet the Leeds trains?

Depends if the buses turn up towards menston station, I always get the X84 into Leeds then get a train from the railway station.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

CLC line fully electrified

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Fleetwood is a better scheme than the Leek line. Should have been included. But as already mentioned, the promises are not set in stone, and can easily be broken.

 

[jonesy3001]

Electrifying the morecambe and double the line when the Eden project is built,
Reopening the woodhead route even if does mean reboring a tunnel and knocking houses down,
Electrifying the calder valley line to leeds.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Upgrade the Manchester Oxford Road line (ETCS, grade separated junctions, reopen the Ardwick/Ancoats curve) to give a Elizabeth Line for the north, with north/south and east/west trains running through Central Manchester.
No gold plating like rebuilding Piccadilly.
Plenty of change from £36 billion.

I agree with all the above, If only.

The Ardwick-Ancoats Curve seems to crop up on quite a few threads but I still can't see an obvious purpose. (As far as I am aware it never had a regular passenger service.)

If you're not 're-building Piccadilly' I presume that @aavm envisages a gigantic flyover leaping straight from an upgraded (quadrupled?) Oxford Road Line/Castlefield Corridor straight to the reinstated curve for new east<->west services like CLC-Ashton-Stalybridge. Ironically this would obviously be unable to call at or connect with Piccadilly. I suppose that that's one way of running high-frequency urban metro Elizabeth Line-esque 'through Central Manchester' (without stopping at its biggest station). Hmm...

I'm even less clear clear how the curve would also allow north<->south high-frequency urban metro Elizabeth Line-esque service. What end points are in mind?

 

[3RDGEN]

Fleetwood is a better scheme than the Leek line. Should have been included. But as already mentioned, the promises are not set in stone, and can easily be broken.

Fleetwood - Poulton was approved in June 2022;

"https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-61866769"

"Plans to reinstate a disused railway line between two Lancashire towns have been approved by the government.
Campaigners have fought for years to reopen the Poulton to Fleetwood link, which has been shut since the 1970s.
The Department for Transport has now agreed to fund the development of the line."

Update in June 2023 was for tram-train to be the preferred option allowing part of the existing tram line to Fleetwood to be used;

"https://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/...-restored-using-tram-train-technology-4201392"

"New details have emerged about how the Government plans to restore the rail link between Fleetwood and Poulton using state-of-the-art tram-train technology."


Leeds - Harrogate - York should have been included as already mentioned, the difficult bits are done, Northern could run 4 car units to increase capacity, LNER could run electric to Harrogate and it releases 170's to cascade within Northern. The teams doing Church Fenton - Leeds - Dewsbury - Hudds under TRU could drop on to it as timescales allow.

 

[aavm]

The Ardwick-Ancoats Curve seems to crop up on quite a few threads but I still can't see an obvious purpose. (As far as I am aware it never had a regular passenger service.)

If you're not 're-building Piccadilly' I presume that @aavm envisages a gigantic flyover leaping straight from an upgraded (quadrupled?) Oxford Road Line/Castlefield Corridor straight to the reinstated curve for new east<->west services like CLC-Ashton-Stalybridge. Ironically this would obviously be unable to call at or connect with Piccadilly. I suppose that that's one way of running high-frequency urban metro Elizabeth Line-esque 'through Central Manchester' (without stopping at its biggest station). Hmm...

I'm even less clear clear how the curve would also allow north<->south high-frequency urban metro Elizabeth Line-esque service. What end points are in mind?

The idea is that all (non intercity) trains would use the Piccadilly - Oxford Road - Deansgate core with *lots* of flyovers (but no quadrupling).
- from the NE (e.g. Leeds), trains would loop down to the south via the reinstated curve (instead of going via Victoria) to Piccadilly, and continue on via Oxford Road to (e.g.) Liverpool
- only 'intercity' trains would terminate at Piccadilly, all others would use the Oxford Road corridor
- more like the Thameslink than Elizabeth Line, with a mix of local and long distance routes all using the same city centre "core"

 

[MrCheeseGrater]

Re signalling and line speed improvements of the Marches Line and the Shrewsbury to Crewe line to improve connectivity between North/South Wales and between the North West and Wales.

 

[GoneSouth]

Worth remembering Network North was intended to cover road as well as rail and tp cost less than the cancelled section of HS2

Well it’s already a success in that case as not a Penny will be spent by this government in any of these projects, they were just BS dreamt up in a desperate attempt to save Rishi’s embarrassment

There you go, much cheaper than HS2!

 

[urbophile]

The idea is that all (non intercity) trains would use the Piccadilly - Oxford Road - Deansgate core with *lots* of flyovers (but no quadrupling).
- from the NE (e.g. Leeds), trains would loop down to the south via the reinstated curve (instead of going via Victoria) to Piccadilly, and continue on via Oxford Road to (e.g.) Liverpool

What's that if it isn't intercity?

 

[Dr Hoo]

The idea is that all (non intercity) trains would use the Piccadilly - Oxford Road - Deansgate core with *lots* of flyovers (but no quadrupling).
- from the NE (e.g. Leeds), trains would loop down to the south via the reinstated curve (instead of going via Victoria) to Piccadilly, and continue on via Oxford Road to (e.g.) Liverpool
- only 'intercity' trains would terminate at Piccadilly, all others would use the Oxford Road corridor
- more like the Thameslink than Elizabeth Line, with a mix of local and long distance routes all using the same city centre "core"

Thanks for the clarification of your idea but given the apparent need for very major changes to the approaches, Platforms 13 & 14 (and, presumably, 15 & 16 even if the whole Castlefield Corridor wasn't quadrupled) that wasn't what I had expected from 'not rebuilding Piccadilly'.

 

[Bevan Price]

1. Long term plan to electrify almost everything in the area.
2. Extend Blackpool South line to new station near site of Blackpool Central. Redouble track from Kirkham.
3. Relocate Manchester Arena; there seems to be a possible site on some football ground near Trafford Park. Extend Victoria station to increase capacity.

 

[Halifaxlad]

1. Long term plan to electrify almost everything in the area.
2. Extend Blackpool South line to new station near site of Blackpool Central. Redouble track from Kirkham.
3. Relocate Manchester Arena; there seems to be a possible site on some football ground near Trafford Park. Extend Victoria station to increase capacity.

I love the idea of extending Blackpool South closer to the beach!

As for the Arena once this new CO-OP arena opens who knows, most gigs might go there so the arena above Victoria might end up redundant! Personally I can't see it remaining financially viable, when most big gigs will probably end up at CO-OP which will have a bigger capacity.

 

[bluenoxid]

Pool in Wharfedale bypass
Killinghall bypass, then either link it into a Harrogate western bypass or grub out High Bond End at Knaresborough to make it a bit more passable
Upgrade Carcroft to Darrington to Motorway standard (A1)

 

[randyrippley]

New tunnel in Manchester with portals at the closed Liverpool Rd and Mayfield stations.

Room at both ends to connect with existing network providing new east-west route