What else should have been included in 'Network North' ?

[jonesy3001]

Electrify the line between baguely fold junction and ashburys rebuild the viaduct at ardwick going into Piccadilly Station and build a train station near the etihad.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Pool in Wharfedale bypass

How about relying the line to Otley and a Pool in Wharfedale rail bypass ?

 

[The Planner]

New tunnel in Manchester with portals at the closed Liverpool Rd and Mayfield stations.

Room at both ends to connect with existing network providing new east-west route

That would be like the u bend on your kitchen sink. The main lines are on viaducts.

Electrify the line between baguely fold junction and ashburys rebuild the viaduct at ardwick going into Piccadilly Station and build a train station near the etihad.

What on earth for? Its got the metrolink station,

 

[jonesy3001]

That would be like the u bend on your kitchen sink. The main lines are on viaducts.


What on earth for? Its got the metrolink station,

Could ease tension from the trams they're like sardine tins when you're going to the match.

How about relying the line to Otley and a Pool in Wharfedale rail bypass ?

Most of the line is now an housing estate and one of the tunnels near pool is now a house.
Walked down it a while ago and the junction from the harrogate line is now a farm, 2:35 in this video I took going through bramhope tunnel on 170472.

170472

Going through bramhope tunnel and the old junction to otley at the end of the video

flic.kr

 

[The Planner]

Could ease tension from the trams they're like sardine tins when you're going to the match.

So you want to electrify a line, rebuild a viaduct and build a new station for effectively 19 home games a year and some cup games? sounds great value for money to me....

 

[jonesy3001]

So you want to electrify a line, rebuild a viaduct and build a new station for effectively 19 home games a year and some cup games? sounds great value for money to me....

Why not, saves on reversing for trains coming from newton heath depot near ashburys and since the co-op arena is due to open next year plus for folk that live in the area.

 

[Krokodil]

New tunnel in Manchester with portals at the closed Liverpool Rd and Mayfield stations.

Room at both ends to connect with existing network providing new east-west route

You want a tunnel to connect one viaduct with another viaduct?

 

[daodao]

Extend Blackpool South line to new station near site of Blackpool Central. Redouble track from Kirkham.

The line from Squires Gate to Kirkham should be converted to a tramway and run as an extension of the Blackpool tramway, with the existing heavy rail line north of Squires Gate closed.

New tunnel in Manchester with portals at the closed Liverpool Rd and Mayfield stations.

Rail tunnels through Manchester of any sort are unnecessary and unaffordable. I suspect that is one of the main reasons why HS2 phase 2 was scrapped.

 

[SJL2020]

Could ease tension from the trams they're like sardine tins when you're going to the match.

It will be interesting to see what happens once the new Arena opens and a concert is scheduled for the same evening as a Champions League game.

 

[The Planner]

Why not, saves on reversing for trains coming from newton heath depot near ashburys and since the co-op arena is due to open next year plus for folk that live in the area.

Multiple tens of millions of pounds so ECS moves don't have to reverse. Ok.

 

[jonesy3001]

Multiple tens of millions of pounds so ECS moves don't have to reverse. Ok.

Service trains as well, clearly don't think straight do you?
It's the railways not a silly computer game when folk think they're experts pushing buttons.

 

[The Planner]

Service trains as well, clearly don't think straight do you?
It's the railways not a silly computer game when folk think they're experts pushing buttons.

What service trains? where are they starting from, where are they going, what demand are they fulfilling? I think quite straight and with a couple of decades in the industry will question any "oh there was a route there that got closed, we must reopen it at any cost" when there are multiple multiple schemes that would get past a fag packet suggestion.

 

[jonesy3001]

What service trains? where are they starting from, where are they going, what demand are they fulfilling? I think quite straight and with a couple of decades in the industry will question any "oh there was a route there that got closed, we must reopen it at any cost" when there are multiple multiple schemes that would get past a fag packet suggestion.

The viaduct is just before ardwick station and served Piccadilly when it was operational.
Clearly some folk don't like change.

 

[The Planner]

The viaduct is just before ardwick station and served Piccadilly when it was operational.
Clearly some folk don't like change.

I know exactly where it is, but explain what puts this above any other scheme etc in the Manchester area? what does it solve?

 

[jonesy3001]

I know exactly where it is, but explain what puts this above any other scheme etc in the Manchester area? what does it solve?

Diversions incase the guide bridge line goes down and trains need to get to stalybridge and Yorkshire, might as well use it now it's not getting knocked down for HS2 and has I stated saves trains having to reverse at ashburys or just outside guide bridge.

 

[The Planner]

Diversions incase the guide bridge line goes down and trains need to get to stalybridge and Yorkshire, might as well use it now it's not getting knocked down for HS2 and has I stated saves trains having to reverse at ashburys or just outside guide bridge.

So its a really bad use of cash then, as you are only using it as resilience or an ECS reversing which has little to no impact.

 

[jonesy3001]

How is it a bad use of cash when the viaduct can be used for diversions, ecs movements and service trains. They need to ease the congestion on the castlefield corridor and this is the speculative thread incase you have forgotten.

 

[The Planner]

How is it a bad use of cash when the viaduct can be used for diversions, ecs movements and service trains. They need to ease the congestion on the castlefield corridor and this is the speculative thread incase you have forgotten.

No, I haven't forgotten its a speculative thread, but it also doesn't mean that nothing can be challenged. Diversions and ECS moves are not a good enough reason to do what you are suggesting. What services would it be for and how does this relieve Castlefield? There were no stations along the line either to reopen. The only thing it allows is a direct Ashton under Lyne to Piccadilly train, which would be slower than going to Vic.

 

[MrCheeseGrater]

No, I haven't forgotten its a speculative thread, but it also doesn't mean that nothing can be challenged. Diversions and ECS moves are not a good enough reason to do what you are suggesting.

It would greatly improve transport links for a stadium soon to be expanding in capacity and for an arena which will soon opens with events over 100 nights of the year. It will take pressure off the inadequate tram system on event days and would be very handy to serve the surrounding area as it develops like the Collar site.

 

[The Planner]

It would greatly improve transport links for a stadium soon to be expanding in capacity and for an arena which will soon opens with events over 100 nights of the year. It will take pressure off the inadequate tram system on event days and would be very handy to serve the surrounding area as it develops like the Collar site.

I'll ask again though, where are the trains going? Piccadilly to the Etihad and that's it? if the Saudi's want to fund it privately then they can crack on, otherwise it smacks of "there were railway tracks here, lets reopen them". 100 nights of the year is 3 times a week for a constrained period of time in the day.

 

[faltskog36abba]

It would greatly improve transport links for a stadium soon to be expanding in capacity and for an arena which will soon opens with events over 100 nights of the year. It will take pressure off the inadequate tram system on event days and would be very handy to serve the surrounding area as it develops like the Collar site.

It would also enable more trains to travel through Manchester Victoria and terminate in Piccadilly, The Eastlands station would be good for local traffic too as the roads are very congested on event days.

 

[daodao]

It would also enable more trains to travel through Manchester Victoria and terminate in Piccadilly

Trains should serve either Manchester Victoria or Piccadilly, not both. It is a waste of platform capacity to do so, when previous rationalisations have limited this capacity. It would be recreating the problems caused by the Ordsall curve [which I feel should be mothballed] on the east side of the city centre.

 

[jonesy3001]

I'll ask again though, where are the trains going? Piccadilly to the Etihad and that's it? if the Saudi's want to fund it privately then they can crack on, otherwise it smacks of "there were railway tracks here, lets reopen them". 100 nights of the year is 3 times a week for a constrained period of time in the day.

What is your problem, everyone has ideas and you shut them down.

 

[Krokodil]

Diversions incase the guide bridge line goes down and trains need to get to stalybridge and Yorkshire, might as well use it now it's not getting knocked down for HS2 and has I stated saves trains having to reverse at ashburys or just outside guide bridge.

If Guide Bridge goes down TPE send anything Stalybridge-bound via the Ordsall Chord. Not ideal to send more traffic through there but it keeps trains moving in a crisis.

What is your problem, everyone has ideas and you shut them down.

Probably because he's seen two decades of wacky ideas.

 

[MrCheeseGrater]

I'll ask again though, where are the trains going? Piccadilly to the Etihad and that's it? if the Saudi's want to fund it privately then they can crack on, otherwise it smacks of "there were railway tracks here, lets reopen them". 100 nights of the year is 3 times a week for a constrained period of time in the day.

For a start, MCFC have not owned by Saudi Arabia and have no ties to the country. I agree though that getting ADUG, the real owners of MCFC to fund or part fund the line would be a good idea. They already have been involved in development in the city through Manchester Life.

The line would also not just be useful on the many event days but it would serve the major developments planned (though not yet fully announced) on the collar site and other areas of land around the stadium. In 7-15 years the area will be unrecognizable from what is is the today, even the stadium.

In terms of where the services could continue, there are many options available for regular service like going out to the suburbs. I don't think it would be a bad idea to run specials from Piccadilly to Victoria and back via the Etihad on event days to get it connected with both stations.

 

[faltskog36abba]

Trains should serve either Manchester Victoria or Piccadilly, not both. It is a waste of platform capacity to do so, when previous rationalisations have limited this capacity. It would be recreating the problems caused by the Ordsall curve [which I feel should be mothballed] on the east side of the city

Trains should serve either Manchester Victoria or Piccadilly, not both. It is a waste of platform capacity to do so, when previous rationalisations have limited this capacity. It would be recreating the problems caused by the Ordsall curve [which I feel should be mothballed] on the east side of the city centre.

Why would a four track railway From Victoria up to miles platting and into the low numbered platforms at Piccadilly cause such problems?. It isn't as congested as the Castlefield route, I would like [Wales, Scottish, Southport to serve Victoria alone -But it seems people don't like that.

 

[The Planner]

What is your problem, everyone has ideas and you shut them down.

No problem at all, like I said earlier, can these ideas not be challenged then, speculative or not? Or do I just accept being a "button pusher"?

 

[daodao]

Why would a four track railway From Victoria up to miles platting and into the low numbered platforms at Piccadilly cause such problems?.

There is no capacity to accommodate extra trains in the low numbered platforms at Piccadilly. There is limited platform capacity at both Victoria and Piccadilly, and building more is unaffordable and complicated, so trains should serve either Manchester Victoria or Piccadilly, not both.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Could ease tension from the trams they're like sardine tins when you're going to the match.


Most of the line is now an housing estate and one of the tunnels near pool is now a house.
Walked down it a while ago and the junction from the harrogate line is now a farm, 2:35 in this video I took going through bramhope tunnel on 170472.

170472

Going through bramhope tunnel and the old junction to otley at the end of the video

flic.kr

That's why you would build a bypass!

Multiple tens of millions of pounds so ECS moves don't have to reverse. Ok.

Andy Burnham would support it on that basis thou!

 

[IBLRG]

1 realistic passenger services for the Reddish South and Brigg Line.

2. A commitment to electrifying more local lines e.g Sheffield to Leeds via Barnsley, Sheffield to Leeds via Dearne, Kirkham and Wesham to Blackpool South.

3 Re Doubling some passenger lines that were singled years ago and now suffer from capacity problems.

4 Better accessibility at stations, where any new NwR structures having to include a lift or a ramp.

5 Any form of new trains on the network to have a corridor in the cab, so that if connected the guard and the passengers can get from one end to the other.

6. Real-time information at all railway stations.

7. Advance tickets available on all lines.