December 2023 Timetable Change

[chuff chuff]

What is the end date for the December 23 timetable?

 

[hexagon789]

What is the end date for the December 23 timetable?

ScotRail's runs until June, not sure about other TOCs.

 

[chuff chuff]

ScotRail's runs until June, not sure about other TOCs.

Have heard this but had nothing concrete.

 

[swt_passenger]

What is the end date for the December 23 timetable?

31 May 24 - sorry that’s the last Mon - Fri date.

It’s 1 Jun 24 for the Saturday timetable.

 

[dk1]

What is the end date for the December 23 timetable?

Just have to wait six or so months.

 

[iphone76]

Just noticed that our Dec 23 diagrams have been issued to 31st May 24. Our union person did say something about running until June next year but I didn't ask which date.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Saturday 01st June is the final date of the December timetable.

 

[numtot12345]

On your first point - Yes, they will run all day.

Second point - No, Neilston and Newton services will continue to be hourly after 1900. But the reintroduction of circle services will remove the longer gaps in service.

Driver training still ongoing, the remaining service cuts may be reversed after this is completed (if deemed viable - ScotRail are unable to reintroduce any services until Transport Scotland consider passenger numbers to have increased enough.

Thanks for all your replies on this, very helpful. Great to see at least the long gap will be filled by the Cathcart Circle service.

Hopefully they will deem the numbers to have increased enough but will see what the policy is on this in the future.

 

[HST125Scorton]

Transport for Wales LTP Diagrams FOI Request by myself here:

Unit Diagrams Dec 2023-June 2024 - a Freedom of Information request to Transport for Wales

It would be grateful if you could please forward a complete set of the (LTP) unit diagrams valid from the December 2023 timetable change. Yours faithfully, Aaron Roscoe

www.whatdotheyknow.com

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

For those interested to continue riding HSTs while they’re running to Bristol/Cardiff, the Saturdays 0800 Cardiff-Penzance is a good bet as it calls at Pilning and Class 800/802 are still unable to call there due to the required SDO software mods not yet being carried out. (The afternoon call has been covered by a Portsmouth service for some time now, but the morning train seems to have remained in the 0800 and looking at the adjacent Portsmouth trains, will be problematic to accommodate.)

 

[hexagon789]

For those interested to continue riding HSTs while they’re running to Bristol/Cardiff, the Saturdays 0800 Cardiff-Penzance is a good bet as it calls at Pilning and Class 800/802 are still unable to call there due to the required SDO software mods not yet being carried out. (The afternoon call has been covered by a Portsmouth service for some time now, but the morning train seems to have remained in the 0800 and looking at the adjacent Portsmouth trains, will be problematic to accommodate.)

AIUI all remaining Castle diagrams from December will be purely shuttling back between Penzance & Plymouth only bar one weekday extension to Exeter St David's, returning ECS.

The two Pilning calls are set to be at 0832 and 1532 by the 0800 and 1459 Cardiff Central - Penzance services, both of which are set to be 80x. Perhaps they've resolved the issues with stopping them there, or expect to mid-December?

 

[infobleep]

Just noticed that from the December timetable change, on a Saturday between Guildford and Gatwick Airport, there will be a
13:10
13:37
14:10
14:37
15:10
15:37

This is great news as currently, it is
13:13 (Redhill only)
13:40
14:07
14:13 (Redhill only)
15:13 (Redhill only)
15:40

I think it might currently be the only time during the week when you get 2 direct services to Gatwick Airport airport with 30 minutes of one another but then you have a 1 hour 33 minute gap afterwards and I've been caught out by that in the past.

And today, due to a shortage of train crew, the Thameslink connections at Redhill are not running, so you have a 30-minute wait at Redhill for the 14:13 and the 15:13 isn't even worth catching as you end up on the 15:40.

So this change is very welcomed.

 

[mangyiscute]

Just noticed that from the December timetable change, on a Saturday between Guildford and Gatwick Airport, there will be a
13:10
13:37
14:10
14:37
15:10
15:37

This is great news as currently, it is
13:13 (Redhill only)
13:40
14:07
14:13 (Redhill only)
15:13 (Redhill only)
15:40

I think it might currently be the only time during the week when you get 2 direct services to Gatwick Airport airport with 30 minutes of one another but then you have a 1 hour 33 minute gap afterwards and I've been caught out by that in the past.

And today, due to a shortage of train crew, the Thameslink connections at Redhill are not running, so you have a 30-minute wait at Redhill for the 14:13 and the 15:13 isn't even worth catching as you end up on the 15:40.

So this change is very welcomed.

Yeah, the North Downs line service is changing so there will be Reading to Gatwick Airport half hourly every day of the week - this is being achieved by running one train as semi-fast Reading to Guildford then stopping Guildford to Redhill, whereas the other one is stopping Reading to Guildford then semi-fast Guildford to Redhill. That way, all of the stations keep their frequency, and journey times are only slightly extended end to end but massively shortened for some journeys, overall it's a much better use of resources.

I was unaware of this weird timing on Saturdays, but as a result of the above changes this goes away, which as you mentioned is great.

 

[infobleep]

Yeah, the North Downs line service is changing so there will be Reading to Gatwick Airport half hourly every day of the week - this is being achieved by running one train as semi-fast Reading to Guildford then stopping Guildford to Redhill, whereas the other one is stopping Reading to Guildford then semi-fast Guildford to Redhill. That way, all of the stations keep their frequency, and journey times are only slightly extended end to end but massively shortened for some journeys, overall it's a much better use of resources.

I was unaware of this weird timing on Saturdays, but as a result of the above changes this goes away, which as you mentioned is great.

If I recall correctly it was due to swapping sets and/or staff. Some how they have managed to deal with it another way from December.

Given how unreliable Govia Thameslink Railway are due to a lack of staff and the fact South Western Railway only run one fast train an hour most hours from Guildford to Clapham Junction, Monday to Saturday, it will be very welcomed.

Today for example all the x07 ls from Redhill to Horsham are cancelled. That means the next service most hours from Redhill is the x17, which stops at Guildford anyway so no point in getting the service that terminates at Redhill.

One can go via Clapham Junction but the fast train leaves at x34, 6 minutes before the direct train to Gatwick Airport. If that train left at x04 instead, it would be better but no doubt it then messes another journey elsewhere.

 

[Minstral25]

Just noticed that from the December timetable change, on a Saturday between Guildford and Gatwick Airport, there will be a
13:10
13:37
14:10
14:37
15:10
15:37

This is great news as currently, it is
13:13 (Redhill only)
13:40
14:07
14:13 (Redhill only)
15:13 (Redhill only)
15:40

I think it might currently be the only time during the week when you get 2 direct services to Gatwick Airport airport with 30 minutes of one another but then you have a 1 hour 33 minute gap afterwards and I've been caught out by that in the past.

And today, due to a shortage of train crew, the Thameslink connections at Redhill are not running, so you have a 30-minute wait at Redhill for the 14:13 and the 15:13 isn't even worth catching as you end up on the 15:40.

So this change is very welcomed.

Covered on the first page of this thread - really good effort by GWR to create a more usable service for local passengers. Hopefully will see more usage by locals

 

[infobleep]

Covered on the first page of this thread - really good effort by GWR to create a more usable service for local passengers. Hopefully will see more usage by locals

Indeed but I wasn't sure if it included Saturday afternoon between 13:40 and 15:40 and I'm pleased to see it does. Hence my comment.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

If I recall correctly it was due to swapping sets and/or staff. Some how they have managed to deal with it another way from December.

I believe it was done that way in order to accommodate the Victoria-Chertsey-Redhill-Victoria path that Belmond use for their steam-hauled dining charters.

 

[Peregrine 4903]

I believe it was done that way in order to accommodate the Victoria-Chertsey-Redhill-Victoria path that Belmond use for their steam-hauled dining charters.

Network Rail train planning retimed that path in Dec23 to allow GWR to run in the clockface pattern.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I believe it was done that way in order to accommodate the Victoria-Chertsey-Redhill-Victoria path that Belmond use for their steam-hauled dining charters.

Should such trains really have priority?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Should such trains really have priority?

That all depends on the access rights the service in question has.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

That all depends on the access rights the service in question has.

Absolutely, the open access rules apply fairly. It’s no different to a freight train that runs once every few months and dislocates the standard passenger pattern timetable.

 

[Kite159]

Absolutely, the open access rules apply fairly. It’s no different to a freight train that runs once every few months and dislocates the standard passenger pattern timetable.

Just look at the Aberdare line which had gaps for paths for the coal place at Tower, even after that place closed and line made out of use. Took a couple years before those freight paths disappeared to allow the passenger trains to fill the gaps

Or even Alton going back a few years which had missing trains in a standard half hourly service to cater for trains for an oil terminal even after the oil terminal closed.

 

[Minstral25]

Indeed but I wasn't sure if it included Saturday afternoon between 13:40 and 15:40 and I'm pleased to see it does. Hence my comment.

Monday to Saturday clockface I believe, although some trains on Mon-Fri in the morning peak don't make Gatwick. Turning round instead at Redhill due to conflicts with the Southern peak extensions to Gatwick which only run Mon-Fri.

 

[Farigiraf]

We will see a half-hourly service at Buckenham on Sundays, compared to no trains at all on Sundays currently. Will Greater Anglia give it the Brampton treatment and finally bring it a proper service? If so, then I'd like to see Eccles/Harling Road, Spooner Row, Lakenheath and Shippea Hill have the same, atleast on weekends.

 

[dk1]

We will see a half-hourly service at Buckenham on Sundays, compared to no trains at all on Sundays currently. Will Greater Anglia give it the Brampton treatment and finally bring it a proper service? If so, then I'd like to see Eccles/Harling Road, Spooner Row, Lakenheath and Shippea Hill have the same, atleast on weekends.

I can't see Buckenham is getting any change to what it has now. It's certainly not half hourly. Only has more services on Sunday for the nature reserve as next to nobody except a senior manager lives there.

Brampton has always been reasonably well patronised and was only briefly a request stop. Thankfully there are no plans to up frequencies across the Breckland line. Its very busy with Cambridge and now Airport passengers. The last thing it needs is slowing down for these very rural stations.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

I can't see Buckenham is getting any change to what it has now. It's certainly not half hourly. Only has more services on Sunday for the nature reserve as next to nobody except a senior manager lives there.

Brampton has always been reasonably well patronised and was only briefly a request stop. Thankfully there are no plans to up frequencies across the Breckland line. Its very busy with Cambridge and now Airport passengers. The last thing it needs is slowing down for these very rural stations.

It's goes back to the fact nothing really can be done on the breckland line until Ely is upgraded, if after that there was a half hourly service you could look at the intermediate stations and have 1 fast and 1 stopper. Not likely to happen anytime soon although I've always felt the line is underutilized because Ely limits it.

 

[dk1]

It's goes back to the fact nothing really can be done on the breckland line until Ely is upgraded, if after that there was a half hourly service you could look at the intermediate stations and have 1 fast and 1 stopper. Not likely to happen anytime soon although I've always felt the line is underutilized because Ely limits it.

Yes long-term plans for a half-hourly Norwich to Cambridge. I meant more frequent stops at the lesser stations but didn't word that very well

 

[Farigiraf]

I can't see Buckenham is getting any change to what it has now

For consistency, which was part of the reason of the request stop removal on GA.

It's certainly not half hourly. Only has more services on Sunday for the nature reserve as next to nobody except a senior manager lives there.

From Realtime Trains - from 10:17 to 12:39 it gets an approximately half hourly service to Norwich, and hourly to Great Yarmouth/Lowestoft, but after that it gets 1 train at half past 4 each way then nothing for the rest of the day.
Looks to be catered for the nature reserve, and fair enough, there's nothing else really there (Similar situation at Lakenheath just more organised)

Thankfully there are no plans to up frequencies across the Breckland line. Its very busy with Cambridge and now Airport passengers. The last thing it needs is slowing down for these very rural stations.

I travel semi-frequently on the Breckland line and aside from peak times (where it is still only about as busy as a Piccadilly line midday) it is very lightly loaded.
If it is as busy as you say, then the problem was extending the Norwich-Cambridge to Stansted. For now, that can't be changed until Ely junction or Norwich airport is upgraded.
Shippea Hill and Eccles Road don't really serve anything apart from nearby villages which likely railhead to Ely or Wymondham, but East Harling (Harling Road - Population 2500) and Lakenheath (Population 4500) are large enough villages to have stations with a decent service, look at Dullingham, Somerleyton or really any middle-of-nowhere station in East Anglia which have normal services and aren't questioned about validity.

 

[dk1]

For consistency, which was part of the reason of the request stop removal on GA.

From Realtime Trains - from 10:17 to 12:39 it gets an approximately half hourly service to Norwich, and hourly to Great Yarmouth/Lowestoft, but after that it gets 1 train at half past 4 each way then nothing for the rest of the day.
Looks to be catered for the nature reserve, and fair enough, there's nothing else really there (Similar situation at Lakenheath just more organised)

I travel semi-frequently on the Breckland line and aside from peak times (where it is still only about as busy as a Piccadilly line midday) it is very lightly loaded.
If it is as busy as you say, then the problem was extending the Norwich-Cambridge to Stansted. For now, that can't be changed until Ely junction or Norwich airport is upgraded.
Shippea Hill and Eccles Road don't really serve anything apart from nearby villages which likely railhead to Ely or Wymondham, but East Harling (Harling Road - Population 2500) and Lakenheath (Population 4500) are large enough villages to have stations with a decent service, look at Dullingham, Somerleyton or really any middle-of-nowhere station in East Anglia which have normal services and aren't questioned about validity.

I drive trains between Norwich and Cambridge most days and apart from against the flow in late evening I work very few lightly loaded services. The overcrowding both peak and weekends can be very severe. It’s not unusual to be full & standing both ways. Airport traffic has become very healthy. We are extremely lucky to have 4-car 755s covering now. How on earth we coped with the original 2-car 170s amazes me.

For consistency, which was part of the reason of the request stop removal on GA.

All request stops were removed from GA during the pandemic to save the guards from going through the train unnecessarily. It worked well and was never revoked.

 

[Adrian1980uk]

I drive trains between Norwich and Cambridge most days and apart from against the flow in late evening I work very few lightly loaded services. The overcrowding both peak and weekends can be very severe. It’s not unusual to be full & standing both ways. Airport traffic has become very healthy. We are extremely lucky to have 4-car 755s covering now. How on earth we coped with the original 2-car 170s amazes me.


All request stops were removed from GA during the pandemic to save the guards from going through the train unnecessarily. It worked well and was never revoked.

Of course it's not just about loading, if it takes too long to get from Norwich to Cambridge or Stansted then you move the train or car debate towards car.