At what point does lineside vegetation become an issue?

[Western 52]

If clearing weeds and bushes is now such a major issue, will we get to the point where lines become hazardous to operate? Have any lines had traffic suspended due to being too overgrown?

 

[TheSel]

If clearing weeds and bushes is now such a major issue, will we get to the point where lines become hazardous to operate? Have any lines had traffic suspended due to being too overgrown?

4th and 5th photos down on this report from the Branch Line Society suggest 'yes'.

 

[snowball]

4th and 5th photos down on this report from the Branch Line Society suggest 'yes'.

Now we know where the phrase "branch line" came from.

 

[8A Rail]

When it gets in my way as a photographer!

But were it is possible and legal, cut / trim it!

 

[D9006]

Taken at daisy Hill Station. Looks like a disused line

 

[Western 52]

That does look bad, and must cause issues with drainage too. Whole bushes rather than just leaves on the line!

 

[jayah]

I look at it separately. The civils should have worked this one out a generation ago, when the concept of line blocks came in, and devised appropriate methods for clearing vegetation, ensuring redundant rails and offcuts are removed, and all the rest of the stuff that is found "inconvenient". They are engineers. That word derives from the Latin, ingenious. Which is someone with the capability to come up with solutions. Not whiney-whiney excuses.

There is absolutely no shortage of access.

This weekend, as with every other, huge parts of the network are under existing, pre planned engineering closures.

Some of these blocks are huge for example Three Bridge to Brighton and Lewes or Norwich to Sheringham and Yarmouth and Lowestoft.

There is no shortage of daylight line closures already if they wanted them for cutting back the bushes.

 

[alxndr]

There is absolutely no shortage of access.

This weekend, as with every other, huge parts of the network are under existing, pre planned engineering closures.

Some of these blocks are huge for example Three Bridge to Brighton and Lewes or Norwich to Sheringham and Yarmouth and Lowestoft.

There is no shortage of daylight line closures already if they wanted them for cutting back the bushes.

It's already a struggle to get the current maintenance carried out under the existing access, and access is more restricted than it was just a couple of years ago with the removal of red zone working (even if large scale tree cutting cannot be done red zone it made access far easier). If you want more work to be carried out in the existing access then more staff is needed, and we've just lost a load...

 

[jayah]

It's already a struggle to get the current maintenance carried out under the existing access, and access is more restricted than it was just a couple of years ago with the removal of red zone working (even if large scale tree cutting cannot be done red zone it made access far easier). If you want more work to be carried out in the existing access then more staff is needed, and we've just lost a load...

There is more train free, daylight access than ever and pretty hard to argue given these possessions often now extend 10/20/30 miles continuously that nobody can get trackside in a van and deal with it. Lack of staff and money may be another issue.

 

[alxndr]

There is more train free, daylight access than ever

How are you coming to that conclusion? Very, very much not my experience.

 

[Elecman]

There is more train free, daylight access than ever and pretty hard to argue given these possessions often now extend 10/20/30 miles continuously that nobody can get trackside in a van and deal with it. Lack of staff and money may be another issue.

Rubbish!!

 

[jayah]

Rubbish!!

As has been explained, weekend, after weekend, 52hr continuous closures all over the network.

Just this weekend, Leeds and Wakefield, Norwich and Yarmouth, Wigan and Salford, Ipswich and Norwich and many many more.

There is no shortage of access and certainly no justification for even more!

 

[zwk500]

There is more train free, daylight access than ever and pretty hard to argue given these possessions often now extend 10/20/30 miles continuously that nobody can get trackside in a van and deal with it. Lack of staff and money may be another issue.

Could you evidence this statement please? In particular with a comparison to a 5- or 10-year benchmark?

 

[Deepgreen]

To answer the OP, I suppose when the actual running of the railway safely is compromised. Now, even if the line is overgrown with weeds that doesn't automatically it isn't viable to run trains per se. I have been on many trains recently where they have brushed lineside shrubbery and trees quite forcibly as they have passed, but, again, that need not necessarily be a problem. Vegetation can do three basic types of harm to the railway - obscure signals and signs, interfere with drainage/structures and cause adhesion problems.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Nov 2023 ==

There is more train free, daylight access than ever and pretty hard to argue given these possessions often now extend 10/20/30 miles continuously that nobody can get trackside in a van and deal with it. Lack of staff and money may be another issue.

I really can't agree with that assertion.

 

[Annetts key]

Um, it can also damage rolling stock. There are the obvious reasons, but also braking systems or other under-frame components/systems, such as AWS, TPWS, ATP, ERTMS/ETCS detectors/aerials.

Once, a colleague of mine was asked to climb under a stabled train to cut out a small branch or it may have been a small tree or similar, because it was a cause for concern.

Falling vegetation can and does cause point failures. Leaves, twigs, branches, you name it, it’s found a way to fowl a point so that detection cannot be obtained.

 

[Railcar]

Seen yesterday at a local station, a member of station staff with a leaf blower blowing leaves from the platform onto the running line!

 

[Deepgreen]

Um, it can also damage rolling stock. There are the obvious reasons, but also braking systems or other under-frame components/systems, such as AWS, TPWS, ATP, ERTMS/ETCS detectors/aerials.

Once, a colleague of mine was asked to climb under a stabled train to cut out a small branch or it may have been a small tree or similar, because it was a cause for concern.

Falling vegetation can and does cause point failures. Leaves, twigs, branches, you name it, it’s found a way to fowl a point so that detection cannot be obtained.

Yes, of course, but that's generally if, say, a tree/branch falls, rather than normal condition vegetation just growing across the line to that extent, which would not be permitted (or would it?!).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Nov 2023 ==

Seen yesterday at a local station, a member of station staff with a leaf blower blowing leaves from the platform onto the running line!

Hope it wasn't, for example, Bromsgrove!

 

[Railcar]

No, not Bromsgrove, but a two-word station with an arboreal name. The second word begins with 'B'

 

[Deepgreen]

No, not Bromsgrove, but a two-word station with an arboreal name. The second word begins with 'B'

Carshalton Beeches...? Or, with leaves down, and a nod to your forum name - (Rail)-cars halt on beeches.

 

[Railcar]

I couldn't possibly say that you are right, but I wouldn't want to get a member of staff into trouble . . . .

 

[jayah]

Could you evidence this statement please? In particular with a comparison to a 5- or 10-year benchmark?

The Schedule 4 payments payable in compensation for such access have ballooned. You can argue in the margins about methodology, but £116m in 2011/12 to £368m in 2019/20 speaks for itself.

Of course everyone who used the railway in 2012 knows there are far more planned track closures now, and there were far more in 2012 than there were in 2002.

Spreadsheet of Schedule 4 Invoices (parliament.uk)

 

[jayah]

I really can't agree with that assertion.

Can you elaborate, given that there is more exclusive access for engineering than before?

 

[GardenRail]

There is more train free, daylight access than ever

Tell that to Platform 8 at Sheffield. Won't be long before we have a Stagecoach Tram in Platform 8, if the buddleia is anything to go by. Sheffield is just as busy as ever, and you, talk tripe.....

 

[Annetts key]

It’s not as simple as a line being closed, therefore staff can go in and do what they want. It depends on who has ‘ownership’ of the line block or possession. Often, if it’s for anything/anyone other than the routes own maintenance department, the off-track (who carry out the vegetation control work) will not be allowed access.

 

[jayah]

Tell that to Platform 8 at Sheffield. Won't be long before we have a Stagecoach Tram in Platform 8, if the buddleia is anything to go by.

As I have said and evidenced, access to do the work when there are no trains is not the problem. There is more engineering access being taken than any time in recent memory - probably since the mass closures following the Hatfield derailment.

If the work isn't getting done, there is different reason.