Landslip near Dewsbury (08/11/23)

[yoyothehobo]

Moderator note - split from:

08/11/23 East Coast Landslip between Darlington and Newcastle.

Stuck on a very crowded train in York with very little information on what’s going on, apart from an apparent landslip between Darlo and Newcastle? Anyone know any more info?

www.railforums.co.uk

This to couple with the lack of TPE services due to the landslip near Dewsbury causing chaos between Leeds and Manchester

 

[john349uk]

Line closed at Dewsbury until Saturday morning. TPE to use emergency timetable and go via Normanton.

 

[Crossover]

Line closed at Dewsbury until Saturday morning. TPE to use emergency timetable and go via Normanton.

Presumably just westbound? An eastbound stopper seems to be going through on time at the moment

 

[john349uk]

Seemingly so, apparently the total closure is for later tonight, an emergency possession on both lines until at least Saturday morning.

 

[londonmidland]

I can’t imagine how saturated the ground must be, given all the rain we’ve had over the past month or so.

It begs the question of not if, but where and when the next landslip will be..?

 

[coxxy]

TPE journey check now advertising disruption expected until EOD 13/11/23

 

[snowball]

press release

Network Rail teams working to repair suspected landslip in Dewsbury as trains disrupted

Passengers are being encouraged to check their journey before travelling as train services in the Dewsbury area are facing disruption due to a suspected landslip.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

Passengers are being encouraged to check their journey before travelling as train services in the Dewsbury area are facing disruption due to a suspected landslip.

Currently, one of the two lines in the area is closed affecting services from Leeds towards Huddersfield with a diversion in place. Trains heading towards Leeds are still running but are subject to delays.

Network Rail teams are on site investigating the problem and are working around the clock to repair the issue. However, disruption is expected to carry on into Thursday while repair work continues and a further update will be provided.

Passengers are being encouraged to check their journey before they travel via National Rail Enquiries or their train operator, with TransPennine Express and Northern trains being affected. As a result of diversions, services from Leeds will not call at Morley, Batley, Dewsbury, Mirfield and Brighouse.

Ticket acceptance is in place between both operators, with passengers are encouraged to check online or via their operator’s social media channels for up-to-date information.

 

[Future]

Below from Northern JourneyCheck:

Due to a landslip between Dewsbury and Ravensthorpe some lines are blocked.
Train services running through these stations will be diverted. Disruption is expected until 05:00 13/11.

Services between Leeds and Wigan Wallgate via Dewsbury (this direction only) are currently being disrupted due to a landslip in the Dewsbury area.
Network Rail engineers have attended and following further assessments have agreed that the existing arrangement will remain in place until start of service on Monday.

Effect on service:
Leeds to Manchester Victoria/Wigan Wallgate via Dewsbury - Services in this direction are currently being diverted via Bradford Interchange until further notice and will not call at Morley, Batley, Dewsbury, Mirfield and Brighouse.
Wigan Wallgate/Manchester Victoria to Leeds via Dewsbury - Service can operate as booked at present.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Would it not be possible to run a shuttle between Leeds and Dewsbury using the new crossover near Batley? This would allow a service in both directions, though with the minor cost of diverting some fasts via Wakefield in both directions rather than just the one.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Would it not be possible to run a shuttle between Leeds and Dewsbury using the new crossover near Batley? This would allow a service in both directions, though with the minor cost of diverting some fasts via Wakefield in both directions rather than just the one

I suspect that Network Rail hasn't approved it.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I suspect that Network Rail hasn't approved it.

Thought it was used shortly after installation one weekend? Though I've had a busy few weeks so may have got things muddled up.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Thought it was used shortly after installation one weekend? Though I've had a busy few weeks so may have got things muddled up.

I'm not sure, but wouldn't Network Rail have to approve Northern to use it?

 

[RHolmes]

Thought it was used shortly after installation one weekend? Though I've had a busy few weeks so may have got things muddled up.

It’s been used for a single day only on a Sunday when the lines was completely closed beyond Dewsbury and there were no other services using the line.

The difference yesterday and over the next few days is that most scheduled services are running as normal on the down line which can cause pathing and timing issues and also crew displacement with the Normanton diversion adding between 20-40 minutes to westbound services and therefore traincrew diagrams.

As an example I was meant to be one of the crew on the Leeds local services this evening but will have to find a way to get from Hull to Huddersfield (where my second service is starting) which adds 20 minutes to my pass ride

 

[coxxy]

It's approved, working and in place. But with trains working in the right direction, would cause more hassle than it's worth.

I'm not sure, but wouldn't Network Rail have to approve Northern to use it?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I'm not sure, but wouldn't Network Rail have to approve Northern to use it?

Yes they would- my point was that if (and admittedly that's a big if) it was used previously, that would suggest that it was already approved for use by Network Rail.
If it isn't yet approved for use, that's a bit pathetic to be honest. It's been in place for months by now.

It's also a shame that there isn't a corresponding crossover in the Ravensthorpe area which would allow single-line working around the problem area. Though it has just occurred to me that the new crossover near Batley faces the wrong way to easily deal with the current problem anyway.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Yes they would- my point was that if (and admittedly that's a big if) it was used previously, that would suggest that it was already approved for use by Network Rail.
If it isn't yet approved for use, that's a bit pathetic to be honest. It's been in place for months by now.

It's also a shame that there isn't a corresponding crossover in the Ravensthorpe area which would allow single-line working around the problem area. Though it has just occurred to me that the new crossover near Batley faces the wrong way to easily deal with the current problem anyway.

Another issue could be driver training. Are drivers trained to use this track?

It's approved, working and in place. But with trains working in the right direction, would cause more hassle than it's worth.

Are drivers trained to use it?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Another issue could be driver training. Are drivers trained to use this track?


Are drivers trained to use it?

Based on the posts above, it's clear that some TPE crews will sign it. Northern may not, as it's only been in use on a Sunday so far and Northern don't run on the route on Sundays.

Given the location of the problem, and the trackwork, the best that could be done using the crossover would be a simple Leeds to Batley shuttle. I'm surprised there isn't room for this given the large number of cancellations on the route at present, though I don't know how many of those cancellations are actually caused by this particular problem. From the posts above it appears that TPE are trying to run a full service in one direction, but the number of cancellations at Huddersfield suggests that they aren't having much success!

Given that the Huddersfield to Leeds stopper is bustituted, I'm surprised a Batley shuttle can't be run in (or close to) the paths that this service uses. In normal operations the two diagrams cross at Dewsbury, so it should be possible to reverse in the Down platform at Batley between the down expresses.

 

[coxxy]

Everyone that signs between Thornhill and morley will sign the turnback.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Based on the posts above, it's clear that some TPE crews will sign it. Northern may not, as it's only been in use on a Sunday so far and Northern don't run on the route on Sundays.

Given the location of the problem, and the trackwork, the best that could be done using the crossover would be a simple Leeds to Batley shuttle. I'm surprised there isn't room for this given the large number of cancellations on the route at present, though I don't know how many of those cancellations are actually caused by this particular problem. From the posts above it appears that TPE are trying to run a full service in one direction, but the number of cancellations at Huddersfield suggests that they aren't having much success!

Given that the Huddersfield to Leeds stopper is bustituted, I'm surprised a Batley shuttle can't be run in (or close to) the paths that this service uses. In normal operations the two diagrams cross at Dewsbury, so it should be possible to reverse in the Down platform at Batley between the down expresses.

I think that turning the trains around at Batley may be an issue for TPE and Northern so perhaps that's why it isn't being done, perhaps also an issue with driver and rolling stock rostering meaning that TPE and Northern don't want staff and rolling stock to just be operating between Leeds and Batley. It also wouldn't surprise me if buses aren't available to operate from Batley to Dewsbury meaning that passengers may be stranded at Batley, when it's easier to get somewhere from Leeds than Batley.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I think that turning the trains around at Batley may be an issue for TPE and Northern so perhaps that's why it isn't being done, perhaps also an issue with driver and rolling stock rostering meaning that TPE and Northern don't want staff and rolling stock to just be operating between Leeds and Batley. It also wouldn't surprise me if buses aren't available to operate from Batley to Dewsbury meaning that passengers may be stranded at Batley, when it's easier to get somewhere from Leeds than Batley.

Seen plenty of RRBs in the last few days, so sourcing buses doesn't seem to be a problem, at least outside of the school run times. Whether these buses are suitable (and not the stupid 3+2-seated travesties that have been provided in the past) is another matter.

TPE shouldn't really be struggling for a unit and crew to run a Batley shuttle, as there's two units and crews that would normally be running the Huddersfield stopper. A Batley shuttle would only need one of these. Northern are still running their service, albeit diverted via Bradford in one direction, so understandably won't have any resources freed up. Turning around also shouldn't be a major issue as they've done it previously as described above, though at Dewsbury rather than Batley. There doesn't appear to be anything at Batley's down platform which would make turning there problematic.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Seen plenty of RRBs in the last few days, so sourcing buses doesn't seem to be a problem, at least outside of the school run times. Whether these buses are suitable (and not the stupid 3+2-seated travesties that have been provided in the past) is another matter.

TPE shouldn't really be struggling for a unit and crew to run a Batley shuttle, as there's two units and crews that would normally be running the Huddersfield stopper. A Batley shuttle would only need one of these. Northern are still running their service, albeit diverted via Bradford in one direction, so understandably won't have any resources freed up. Turning around also shouldn't be a major issue as they've done it previously as described above, though at Dewsbury rather than Batley. There doesn't appear to be anything at Batley's down platform which would make turning there problematic.

Wouldn't surprise me if some people will just use local buses to complete their journey. I do wonder if TPE just thinks its easier to send passengers via Bradford to get to Dewsbury than put on a train as they don't have to file more documents to NR.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Wouldn't surprise me if some people will just use local buses to complete their journey. I do wonder if TPE just thinks its easier to send passengers via Bradford to get to Dewsbury than put on a train as they don't have to file more documents to NR.

If I was trying to get to Dewsbury from Leeds using a combination of other routes and local buses, Wakefield would be a better option. A slightly longer walk to the same Arriva 268, but a much less congested route once on board.

Of course it should come as no surprise that TPE would do the absolute bare minimum and nothing more!

As far as the landslip is concerned, is anyone able to point out exactly where it is? The NR press release linked upthread was not very specific. Northern say "between Dewsbury and Ravensthorpe" which is slightly more helpful.

 

[YorkRailFan]

As far as the landslip is concerned, is anyone able to point out exactly where it is? The NR press release linked upthread was not very specific.

Looking at Open Train Times map, there a no trains between Batley and Leeds but trains between Dewsbury and Batley. Link:https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/huddersfield

 

[snowball]

Press release

Services to return to normal on Monday after West Yorkshire landslip

Rail services in West Yorkshire are expected to return to normal on Monday after a collapsed wall caused a landslip in Dewsbury.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

Rail services in West Yorkshire are expected to return to normal on Monday after a collapsed wall caused a landslip in Dewsbury.

Part of a retaining wall that runs alongside the railway close to Thornhill Road, to the south of Dewsbury Station, collapsed yesterday morning (Wednesday 8 Nov) causing a several metre wide landslip directly next to the track and closing the line towards Huddersfield from Leeds. The line in the other direction, from Huddersfield towards Leeds, remains open.

After thorough overnight investigations took place, engineers have now confirmed that repair work will continue over the coming days and throughout the weekend, with normal service expected to be resumed for the start of service on Monday morning (13 Nov).

TransPennine Express (TPE) and Northern services from Leeds towards Huddersfield are affected, with some services diverting onto other nearby lines – although trains from Leeds are not able to call at Morley, Batley, Dewsbury, Mirfield or Brighouse. Trains going towards Leeds from Huddersfield can still use the normal route but are subject to delays as trains slow down to pass the worksite.

Network Rail is encouraging all passengers wanting to travel through the area to check for up-to-date routes and journey details via National Rail Enquiries or with Northern/TPE, and people living and working close to the site are advised that the work over the coming days may be disruptive – including at night – and to call the Network Rail Helpline on 03457 11 41 41 for more information.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Press release

Services to return to normal on Monday after West Yorkshire landslip

Rail services in West Yorkshire are expected to return to normal on Monday after a collapsed wall caused a landslip in Dewsbury.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

Quite a quick fix compared to other recent incidents.

 

[RHolmes]

TPE shouldn't really be struggling for a unit and crew to run a Batley shuttle, as there's two units and crews that would normally be running the Huddersfield stopper. A Batley shuttle would only need one of these. Northern are still running their service, albeit diverted via Bradford in one direction, so understandably won't have any resources freed up. Turning around also shouldn't be a major issue as they've done it previously as described above, though at Dewsbury rather than Batley. There doesn't appear to be anything at Batley's down platform which would make turning there problematic.

It’s not as simple as that.

The Leeds to Huddersfield local stopping service is perhaps TPE’s most difficult to crew as every single member of staff has to travel from either Liverpool, Manchester, York or Hull to work the service. Many of these diagrams include pass rides or assists on services such as the Newcastle and Scarborough’s that aren’t operating.

Also the crews which operate this route largely work other services, and do not stay on the stopping services for the entire duration of their shift. For example my shift that I mentioned area includes a return trip to Hull beforehand.

It’s also too short notice to completely rewrite diagrams to match shift times.

 

[geoffk]

Passengers are being encouraged to check their journey before they travel via National Rail Enquiries or their train operator, with TransPennine Express and Northern trains being affected. As a result of diversions, services from Leeds will not call at Morley, Batley, Dewsbury, Mirfield and Brighouse.

If diverted via Normanton, trains can call at Mirfield and Brighouse (or TPE just Mirfield).

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Looking at Open Train Times map, there a no trains between Batley and Leeds but trains between Dewsbury and Batley. Link:https://www.opentraintimes.com/maps/signalling/huddersfield

Isn't that from when Batley signal box was decommissioned this summer? Hence the "Good Bye Batley" message? In any case, it doesn't indicate where the slip is.

It’s not as simple as that.

The Leeds to Huddersfield local stopping service is perhaps TPE’s most difficult to crew as every single member of staff has to travel from either Liverpool, Manchester, York or Hull to work the service. Many of these diagrams include pass rides or assists on services such as the Newcastle and Scarborough’s that aren’t operating.

Also the crews which operate this route largely work other services, and do not stay on the stopping services for the entire duration of their shift. For example my shift that I mentioned area includes a return trip to Hull beforehand.

It’s also too short notice to completely rewrite diagrams to match shift times.

Yet another reason the service should be given back to Northern, who have crew bases at both Huddersfield and Leeds.

If diverted via Normanton, trains can call at Mirfield and Brighouse (or TPE just Mirfield).

Northern are diverting via Bradford not Normanton. The only TPE service that would call at Mirfield is the stopper which is cancelled anyway.
It would be nice if they could add stops to one of the fasts, but this is TPE so we'll get the absolute bare minimum at best.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Isn't that from when Batley signal box was decommissioned this summer? Hence the "Good Bye Batley" message? In any case, it doesn't indicate where the slip is.

The comment linked here:

Press release

Services to return to normal on Monday after West Yorkshire landslip

Rail services in West Yorkshire are expected to return to normal on Monday after a collapsed wall caused a landslip in Dewsbury.

www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk

seems to indicate that the landslip was just south of Dewsbury.

 

[Freightmaster]

As far as the landslip is concerned, is anyone able to point out exactly where it is? The NR press release linked upthread was not very specific. Northern say "between Dewsbury and Ravensthorpe" which is slightly more helpful.

Here you go:

203 Watergate Rd · 203 Watergate Rd, Dewsbury WF13 2PX

203 Watergate Rd, Dewsbury WF13 2PX

maps.app.goo.gl

MARK