DB Class 60s to be withdrawn

[Rail Quest]

Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere but thought this could do with its own thread. Pathfinder have been advised by DB that their Class 60s are being withdrawn end of 2023.

Post link: https://www.facebook.com/pathfinder...f9jBnvUTTrK9ZukmxkPmLBRfMxgUqRWhehAgeSMygz5Pl

16th December Announcement - The Festive Midland-Ian
DB Cargo have today advised that this train will likely be the FINAL DB Class 60 hauled railtour before the Class are withdrawn at the end of the year. A Class 66 and Class 60 will top and tail this train.

Attached image is a screenshot of a Facebook post by Pathfinder Railtours in which they state the DB Class 60s are to be withdrawn at the end of the year.

 

[Class15]

Apologies if this has been mentioned elsewhere but thought this could do with its own thread. Pathfinder have been advised by DB that their Class 60s are being withdrawn end of 2023.

With DB losing more and more work, the 60s were always going to be next. The 92s are needed for HS1/Channel Traffic and 67s for rail tours.

 

[DarloRich]

I heard this from another source but had no corroboration - is it true or wibble?

IF it is true what does that mean for GBRF/DCR?

 

[12LDA28C]

As DB are pulling out of providing locos for charter trains early next year, even if they weren't withdrawing their 60s they wouldn't be available for railtours after that date anyway.

 

[Rail Quest]

I heard this from another source but had no corroboration - is it true or wibble?

IF it is true what does that mean for GBRF/DCR?

As DB are pulling out of providing locos for charter trains early next year, even if they weren't withdrawing their 60s they wouldn't be available for railtours after that date anyway.

The FB post from Pathfinder seems to suggest it's the class that's being withdrawn and would hope they haven't fuelled miss information. I'm surprised this is being found out through Pathfinder anyways rather than DB announcing straight away.

Wasn't aware DB were pulling out of tours haha, when was that announced?

 

[12LDA28C]

Wasn't aware DB were pulling out of tours haha, when was that announced?

It was mentioned by UKR's Liz Farrow on a recent tour. No provision of locos by DB after the UKR 'Sarum Seraph' tour on February 10th 2024.

 

[Rail Quest]

It was mentioned by UKR's Liz Farrow on a recent tour. No provision of locos by DB after the UKR 'Sarum Seraph' tour on February 10th 2024.

Ahh damn thanks for confirming! Nothing but bad news for DB it seems from the last year.

 

[31160]

What has gone wrong with DB? its just a list of things gone wrong it seams nothing positive at all

 

[Rail Quest]

What has gone wrong with DB? its just a list of things gone wrong it seams nothing positive at all

My thoughts exactly. They seem to be shedding contracts as well such as the Ince and Elton stone workings which went from DB to FL this year.

 

[JonathanH]

What has gone wrong with DB? its just a list of things gone wrong it seams nothing positive at all

It is a business with huge overheads in a challenging market. In 2022, it had turnover of £271m, and made an operational loss of £49m.

That sort of thing is difficult to recover from.

 

[renegademaster]

I hope this doesn't mean a big reduction in UK railtour tours north of the river where they tend towards DB. How much capability does gbrf have up the ECML?

 

[randyrippley]

Withdrawn as in scrapped or sold?
How many 60s do they have that are actually useable?

 

[Rail Quest]

Withdrawn as in scrapped or sold?
How many 60s do they have that are actually useable?

On the second question, I could have sworn I heard they'd removed a few recently to the point they only had four in active service anyways. The rest currently in storage.

As for the first question - what happened with the 90s? Perhaps something similar will happen with the remaining 60s

 

[12LDA28C]

What has gone wrong with DB? its just a list of things gone wrong it seams nothing positive at all

Probably something to do with the rumour that DB are shedding the UK Freight operation as well as the passenger operation which they have recently sold off.

It is a business with huge overheads in a challenging market. In 2022, it had turnover of £271m, and made an operational loss of £49m.

That sort of thing is difficult to recover from.

No doubt why the parent company are keen to get shot of freight operation in the UK.

 

[Class15]

Probably something to do with the rumour that DB are shedding the UK Freight operation as well as the passenger operation which they have recently sold off.

Really? When will they completely disappear?

 

[8A Rail]

My thoughts exactly. They seem to be shedding contracts as well such as the Ince and Elton stone workings which went from DB to FL this year.

It is not stone, not sure that Encirc Glass would appreciate that commodity! It is 'sand' from Middleton Towers. However, DB Cargo still serve Elton Sidings with 'crushed glass' from Tilbury.

 

[Rail Quest]

It is not stone, not sure that Encirc Glass would appreciate that commodity! It is 'sand' from Middleton Towers. However, DB Cargo still serve Elton Sidings with 'crushed glass' from Tilbury.

Oh haha fair enough lmao. Didn't know they still served it in some manner, thanks for the info!

 

[xotGD]

the rumour that DB are shedding the UK Freight operation

So it turns out that when one of their competitors said "Resistance is Futile" they were right.

 

[Gaz67]

It will be interesting to see what happens with the Peak Forest - Northwich [ICI hoppers}, DB and i think EWS before them have tried to use 66s on this flow before {inluding pairs} with no success. Could see GB operating this out of Tuebrook with 60s with the empties running there instead of Arpley.

 

[Rail Quest]

It will be interesting to see what happens with the Peak Forest - Northwich [ICI hoppers}, DB and i think EWS before them have tried to use 66s on this flow before {inluding pairs} with no success. Could see GB operating this out of Tuebrook with 60s with the empties running there instead of Arpley.

I always wondered why that move was so consistently a tug. Perhaps if that move ends up with FL then 66/6s might be better performing? And GBRf have heavy-haul sheds of their own (can't remember the exact ones but they're in the 6679X series) that may also be more suited than the normal sheds though we are now in speculation haha.

 

[5562]

I was wondering about that working as well. Are 60s better suited due to their higher Tractive Effort or is their another reason.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I was wondering about that working as well. Are 60s better suited due to their higher Tractive Effort or is their another reason.

As I understood, that’s the reason plus 60s have sepex traction control which is supposedly superior to anything fitted to the 66s.

 

[31160]

I wonder if the DB class 60s will just get taken by GBRF or DC, with GB supposedly short hence the 69s it might make sense

 

[JonathanH]

I wonder if the DB class 60s will just get taken by GBRF or DC, with GB supposedly short hence the 69s it might make sense

Only if DB are prepared to sell them.

 

[Doomotron]

I wonder if the DB class 60s will just get taken by GBRF or DC, with GB supposedly short hence the 69s it might make sense

Only if DB are prepared to sell them.

I don't think it's out of the question in the slightest. Assuming the rumours are true about both GBRF considering Class 60s and DB withdrawing their own, there could be a market for them. That said this may be better suited to a new thread in the suggestions forum.

 

[Rail Quest]

I wonder if the DB class 60s will just get taken by GBRF or DC, with GB supposedly short hence the 69s it might make sense

Perhaps, but could maintenance be an issue? My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the GBRf and DCR 60s are maintained by Toton, I'm assuming by DB themselves. If they're ditching the fleet, are they also going to take moves to reduce operational costs in Toton by stopping maintenance and thus knowledge of the 60s? If so, that would create a great deal of issues for both GBRf/DCR with their existing fleets, not just any new purchases.

 

[12LDA28C]

Perhaps, but could maintenance be an issue? My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the GBRf and DCR 60s are maintained by Toton, I'm assuming by DB themselves. If they're ditching the fleet, are they also going to take moves to reduce operational costs in Toton by stopping maintenance and thus knowledge of the 60s? If so, that would create a great deal of issues for both GBRf/DCR with their existing fleets, not just any new purchases.

They'll be doing rather more than reducing operating costs at Toton if DB are pulling out of UK operations.

 

[150249]

Which ones are left in active service?

 

[Class15]

Which ones are left in active service?

60010 certainly is.

 

[ExRes]

Perhaps, but could maintenance be an issue? My understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that the GBRf and DCR 60s are maintained by Toton, I'm assuming by DB themselves. If they're ditching the fleet, are they also going to take moves to reduce operational costs in Toton by stopping maintenance and thus knowledge of the 60s? If so, that would create a great deal of issues for both GBRf/DCR with their existing fleets, not just any new purchases.

DCR 60s are no longer maintained by DB at Toton, when 60046 was out of service earlier this year the required work, which included removal of the engine, was undertaken at Loughborough