Ah sorry. I will correct training for "something" then.Not at all thanks, was answering where and when the first passenger working is/was.
Ah sorry. I will correct training for "something" then.Not at all thanks, was answering where and when the first passenger working is/was.
Ok thanks.ASOS is "action short of a strike" - it means that training keeps being put back as a result of industrial action.
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Realtime Trains | 5Q20 0912 Derby Litchurch Lane to Eastleigh Trsmd | 24/11/2023
Real-time train running information for 5Q20 0912 departure from Derby Litchurch Lane to Eastleigh Trsmd on 24/11/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.www.realtimetrains.co.uk
Given that crew training has seemingly started on the 701s
Why not?But it hasn't.
When depot driver training had already started it was denied on this thread...Why not?
(Transferred from 458/4 thread)
Yes, too many members giving contradictory updates!When depot driver training had already started it was denied on this thread...
SWR has taken 701's onto its books so it will be liable for leasing cost as well now and no doubt First Group allowed to charge a management fee as well on two lots of stock.I wonder when the phase 'Operator of Last Resort' will start to appear ? Not only the operator is at fault,but the train builders and in some part the operators employees. We are rapidly approaching the point when all of the 701s have been constructed,and still the existing rolling stock is being maintained and leased,whilst the new fleet of trains is in paid storage or yet to carry a fare paying passenger.Oh,and the builder is likely to close the plant that built them before much longer.Less than ideal?
While I don't think there'd actually be much the OLR could do, although I appreciate you could wish for an OLR simply to punish First for their less-than exemplary operation of the service, I do wish SWR would actually speak out honestly and tell their patrons WHY these trains are still not in service. It's infuriating to have no explanation, and besides, without knowing the reasons some will start to speculate, which doesn't often end well.I wonder when the phase 'Operator of Last Resort' will start to appear ? Not only the operator is at fault,but the train builders and in some part the operators employees. We are rapidly approaching the point when all of the 701s have been constructed,and still the existing rolling stock is being maintained and leased,whilst the new fleet of trains is in paid storage or yet to carry a fare paying passenger.Oh,and the builder is likely to close the plant that built them before much longer.Less than ideal?
For clarification here. Crewed by SWR management and trainers. Not Mainline Drivers.
That would be 5Q75/76, on VSTP. Was booked another run on 5Q77/78, but looks like it went back into Clapham after the first run.On a different note there was an SWR operated 701 at Basingstoke today according to RTT. I’ll try and find the path later.
About time the Transport Select Committee should do an inquiry into why new trains take so long to get into service.While I don't think there'd actually be much the OLR could do, although I appreciate you could wish for an OLR simply to punish First for their less-than exemplary operation of the service, I do wish SWR would actually speak out honestly and tell their patrons WHY these trains are still not in service. It's infuriating to have no explanation, and besides, without knowing the reasons some will start to speculate, which doesn't often end well.
Perhaps yes, though how anti-climactic if they did just that and nothing was achieved from it, with trains continuing to take 4-6 years to enter service from being ordered.About time the Transport Select Committee should do an inquiry into why new trains take so long to get into service.
The straightforward response would surely be that safe operation needs to be established.About time the Transport Select Committee should do an inquiry into why new trains take so long to get into service.
Who decides whether the trains and their operating procedures are safe, or rather safe enough, since nothing is completely safe?The straightforward response would surely be that safe operation needs to be established.
And if the company refuse to negotiate?I know this is not law but this should be law. Any Union that is taking strike action should have to negotiate with the company they are taking strike action against. That should be mandatory.
ASLEF would love to negotiate with the individual company rather than the government mouthpiece RDG, a quango with no legitimacy. The fact that the negotiations have broken down is why there’s industrial action.As you all said, the ASLEF union will be taking strike action very soon. I know this is not law but this should be law. Any Union that is taking strike action should have to negotiate with the company they are taking strike action against. That should be mandatory.
ASLEF would love to negotiate with the individual company rather than the government mouthpiece RDG, a quango with no legitimacy. The fact that the negotiations have broken down is why there’s industrial action.
There are bits of information out there, for example in December 2022 the BBC quoted a FoI to the DfT apparently statingWhile I don't think there'd actually be much the OLR could do, although I appreciate you could wish for an OLR simply to punish First for their less-than exemplary operation of the service, I do wish SWR would actually speak out honestly and tell their patrons WHY these trains are still not in service. It's infuriating to have no explanation, and besides, without knowing the reasons some will start to speculate, which doesn't often end well.
Work continues with Alstom for a pre-passenger service software update... in order to bring those units to entry into service standard.
The fleet of 750 Derby-built carriages has faced numerous software faults which have still not been fully resolved, BBC South transport correspondent Paul Clifton said.
Problems with door obstacle detectors have prevented the trains from being accepted for driver training, according to the train drivers' union ASLEF.
Other reported issues have included the coupling process, faulty windscreen wipers and cab doors that were difficult to open.
Industry sources report that one of the biggest concerns raised by drivers is the train’s windscreen wipers. When taking the trains for test drives on SWR lines they have noticed that at several locations the windscreen wiper blocks their view of the signals.
As this is potentially unsafe, they have informed their unions and SWR that they will not be continuing to test drive the trains until the windscreen wipers are re-positioned and other ongoing problems such as faulty software are resolved.
Obviously windscreen wipers don't block views of signals from moving trains, so make of that what you will.MyLondon has seen documents from Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen (ASLEF) which suggest that the train drivers' union has instructed SWR to make urgent changes to the trains and until then its members will not test drive them. A spokesperson for ASLEF told MyLondon: “We are having issues with the Class 701s and the cabs are being modified but that is not the only issue.
"We are in discussions with SWR and Alstom/Bombardier as the units, when delivered, were not fit for purpose. We will continue to work with SWR to resolve the outstanding problems.”
A spokesperson for SWR responded: “We are working closely with ASLEF and our partners at Alstom on the safe roll-out of our new Arterio fleet, which is set to transform travel on our Reading, Windsor and West London suburban routes through increased capacity and better reliability”.
Again, make of that what you will.An Alstom spokesperson said: "Alstom is delighted to report that it has delivered 29 of the contracted-for 10-carriage Arterio trains to South Western Railway and they have been accepted.
"This could not happen if the reported issues were still present."
From https://www.railwaygazette.com/uk/s...-for-class-701-emu-introduction/62185.articleThe first EMU was delivered for testing in June 2020, but in January this year [2022] SWR said it was still waiting for Alstom ‘to supply a train that performs to specification’ before it could begin an testing, crew training and mobilisation.
Problems are understood to include the cab layout, where the production sets differ from the design agreed with drivers’ trade union ASLEF. Audits by Alstom following its purchase of Bombardier Transportation also identified problems with the manufacturing process that were leading to trains being completed with large numbers of defects needing to be rectified at significant cost.
How reasonable both sides’ demands were must be considered first. These sort of situations tend to find that it’s not just one side specifically to blame.If the company refused to negotiate with the unions. Then the company should be fined.
Fined by who, exactly?If the company refused to negotiate with the unions. Then the company should be fined.
And when it's a government-owned company (OLR) that refuses to negotiate?[If the company refused to negotiate with the unions. Then the company should be fined by] the government of the time.
There are 701 sims at Clapham yard.Does SWR have any 701 simulators? Or is all of the 701 training being done on the trains themselves?
Yes, one of the early Rock Rail charges was for simulatorsDoes SWR have any 701 simulators? Or is all of the 701 training being done on the trains themselves?
I'm sure that will soon be denied on this thread.I have heard that around 12 Staines guards are being trained on them for a Windsor service that will either be Staines-Windsor or actually going Waterloo-Windsor