Railway History in the Helensburgh Area

[D6130]

We have recently had a lot of interesting - but off topic - discussion on the above subject in the 'Caledonian Sleeper' thread. As I lived and attended school in that area, the local railway history has always been of interest to me. I'm also aware that a few other forum members - in particular @Cheshire Scot , @McRhu and @paul1609 are knowledgable in this field.

MODS: Would it be possible to move the relevant posts from the 'Caledonian Sleeper' thread to this new thread please? This would enable us to continue the discussion. Many thanks in advance.

 

[McRhu]

Helensburgh Upper was a lovely station back in the day (late 60s and through the 70s being my time): a place of roaring fires and the steady ticking of a huge clock in the stationmaster's room and pink Edmonson tickets. If I remember correctly the gas lighting persisted into the 70s. The station's demolition was a tragedy, done suddenly with very little warning. As regards a station at Faslane, this comes up quite often and as far as I can make out it would be sited on the WHL near the north gate. I would dearly love to see the Faslane Branch reopened - even if only to a halt where it used to cross the A814, but a station on the main line would be very welcome. There has also been talk of a pop-up trial station at Rhu. Anyway, a pic of HLU dated 1979.

 

[D6130]

Anyway, a pic of HLU dated 1979.

A fabulous photo evoking memories of steam-heat 27s with mark 1 stock on the West Highland Line! The snow-covered hills of the Cowal Peninsular loom in the background and the redundant telegraph poles still stand guard over the typical West Highland chalet-style station building. The original gas lighting had been replaced six years earlier....but the Scottish Region blue enamel running-in boards are still in situ. Many thanks for posting @McRhu!

 

[McRhu]

A fabulous photo evoking memories of steam-heat 27s with mark 1 stock on the West Highland Line! The snow-covered hills of the Cowal Peninsular loom in the background and the redundant telegraph poles still stand guard over the typical West Highland chalet-style station building. The original gas lighting had been replaced six years earlier....but the Scottish Region blue enamel running-in boards are still in situ. Many thanks for posting @McRhu!

Thank you. Photo taken during lunch break from my job at the Helensburgh Advertiser. It was a cold day and the brisk walk up the 1 in 20 gradient on Sinclair Street brought a welcome glow to my traction motors. If I'd had more time I'd have popped down the ramp to see if Wattie or Alec Coyle were on duty.

 

[scotLAN]

Anyway, a pic of HLU dated 1979

Again, thank you for a wonderful and atmospheric picture of Helensburgh Upper. On my regular travels up and down the WHL it always felt like (and with the advent of RETB, was!) the transition between the central belt and returning back to the Highlands. A tragedy that the original station building was demolished as well.

Regarding the signalling, after the loop was lifted and the signal box closed, was the route between Craigendoran and Garelochhead operated as one section, or were there any local signals within Helensburgh Upper itself? (I couldn’t make any out in the image).

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Perhaps one of the most interesting historic aspects would be the diversion of the line to Helensburgh Central from it's original route through what is now Colgrain to run via the current Craigendoran station at the pier which the NB constructed for its steamers, with a dedicated Pier platform (P1) which continued in use by boat rains until the early 1970s, having been denied access to Helensburgh Pier through the town centre. Looking at it today it is probably hard for people to realise Craigendoran used to have five platforms. Fuel for the steamers (latterly a mix of steamers and motor vessels) was delivered in rail tank wagons onto the pier and it was only very late on when fuel deliveries switched to road - the road tankers were not allowed on the pier and a pipe was laid from the roadway onto the pier.

Whilst I don't recall the C15 push pull operation, I do recall the railbus for the Arrochar locals and somewhere I have an excess ticket issued on the railbus from Rhu. I believe the local service ceased in 1963. EDIT it ceased in 1964.
It was a mystery to me how it was crewed, as the service started and finished the day in Arrochar, and this was well before the days when trains would run ECS to start the service, were there drivers and guards in Arrochar, or was it lodging turn for Helensburgh or Eastfield crews?

More memories to come, including the photo I mentioned in the Cal Sleeper thread, almost identical to that posted by @McRhu but without the wintry backdrop but in the meantime some tasters from the Helensburgh Central line including one taken from my bedroom window in East King St and others taken over the garden hedge.

 

[McRhu]

Perhaps one of the most interesting historic aspects would be the diversion of the line to Helensburgh Central from it's original route through what is now Colgrain to run via the current Craigendoran station at the pier which the NB constructed for its steamers, with a dedicated Pier platform (P1) which continued in use by boat rains until the early 1970s, having been denied access to Helensburgh Pier through the town centre. Looking at it today it is probably hard for people to realise Craigendoran used to have five platforms. Fuel for the steamers (latterly a mix of steamers and motor vessels) was delivered in rail tank wagons onto the pier and it was only very late on when fuel deliveries switched to road - the road tankers were not allowed on the pier and a pipe was laid from the roadway onto the pier.

Whilst I don't recall the C15 push pull operation, I do recall the railbus for the Arrochar locals and somewhere I have an excess ticket issued on the railbus from Rhu. I believe the local service ceased in 1963. It was a mystery to me how it was crewed, as the service started and finished the day in Arrochar, and this was well before the days when trains would run ECS to start the service, were there drivers and guards in Arrochar, or was it lodging turn for Helensburgh or Eastfield crews?

More memories to come, including the photo I mentioned in the Cal Sleeper thread, almost identical to that posted by @McRhu but without the wintry backdrop but in the meantime some tasters from the Helensburgh Central line including one taken from my bedroom window in East King St and others taken over the garden hedge.

Those photos bring back memories. HLC saw its share of interesting motive power in latter times: I wish I'd seen the Royal Train class 87 workings. It's in the back of my mind that 87036 (latterly 87101) made it there on thyristor harmonics tests, although - as ever - I might very well be wrong. I believe the prototype PEP visited too. As regards Craigendoran Pier, I can remember walking out along the pier tracks when everything was still in situ and the danger of plunging to one's death through the gaps hadn't yet come about. The track set in the pier timbers themselves was very light flatbottom. There are some photos of the tank wagons you mention at the pier in Stewart Noble's 'The Vanished Railways of Old Western Dunbartonshire', (along with much else of interest, including a remaining bridge on that original route from Craigendoran to Helensburgh and photos of the Faslane Branch).

 

[Cheshire Scot]

I believe the prototype PEP visited too.

Yes, there was a lengthy period of testing for this unit to/from Helensburgh - that would be in the mid 70's? I have a photo of it along the sea wall and will see if I can dig that one out too.

Another Royal Train instance was when the late Queen visited Helensburgh in the early/mid sixties, and, having arrived by car (had she been to Faslane?) departed on a 'Blue Train' - AM3 or later 303 to the uninitiated. School took us to stand in front of the station to see Her Majesty and many of us were excused school in the afternoon to go to Dumbarton with Cubs to see her again.

I also recall seeing the Royal Train approaching Craigendoran in 1965 taking the Queen south after she had opened Cruachan Power Station just weeks after the slightly premature closure of the route through Callander which may well have been the originally planned route. Deviating from Helensburgh for a moment the Cruachan scheme brought much freight traffic to the C&O with construction materials.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Perhaps one of the most interesting historic aspects would be the diversion of the line to Helensburgh Central from it's original route through what is now Colgrain to run via the current Craigendoran station at the pier which the NB constructed for its steamers, with a dedicated Pier platform (P1) which continued in use by boat rains until the early 1970s, having been denied access to Helensburgh Pier through the town centre.

Are there any contemporary maps available of the Helensburgh area showing how things once were? Take it that Helensburgh Pier wasn't ever directly rail served?

Also, is it correct that the modern day Helensburgh (Central) station predates Helensburgh Upper station on the West Highland Line by quite a few decades?

 

[Taunton]

Anyway, a pic of HLU dated 1979.

Apart from being a great picture in its own right, it shows West Highland line right hand running at the station loops. Now there was a past thread here where multiple posters stated this was some aspect of RETB, but my recollections from the 1970s, even before this photo, was that right hand running had long (possibly always) been practiced along here, back to the days of mechanical signalboxes, and I'm pretty sure I've seen steam era photographs of the same.

That first 1970s West Highland trip included surprise at the considerable layout at Craigendoran (which is effectively one end of Helensburgh town), dividing three ways to the WHL, Helensburgh main station, and the pier. It's surprising there was any use made of Helensburgh Upper station, with its handful of services per day, probably not too punctual in the Up direction, compared to the regular electric service from the main station down the hill. For a small town it has a lot of stations!

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Apart from being a great picture in its own right, it shows West Highland line right hand running at the station loops. Now there was a past thread here where multiple posters stated this was some aspect of RETB, but my recollections from the 1970s, even before this photo, was that right hand running had long (possibly always) been practiced along here, back to the days of mechanical signalboxes, and I'm pretty sure I've seen steam era photographs of the same.

Sorry but that is an up train on the only remaining platform line after the loop was taken out. My similar photo follows.

In mechanical signalling days only Tyndrum Upper and Bridge of Orchy had the option of right hand running, each in only one direction. Tokenless Block was the modus operanti betweeen Crianlarich Upper and Rannoch (I think from the late '60s) and at these two intermediate stations the box could be switched out so required one line to be signalled for both directions. All other loops only had an up line and a down line conventionally signalled (plus one or more sidings). Crianlarich Upper had ground disc signals enabling the 'timber Train' to arrive/depart on the wrong line to access Crianlarich Lower yard.

Several photos attached, and to correct my earlier post the PEP is not on the sea wall but approaching the junction but I have included a seawall photo of a 303 with the 12.58 Cadder - Corpach in the loop waiting for the 12.55 Queen St - Oban to clear Garelochhead. also a very poor photo of NBL loco taken over the hedge, in my defence my age was still in single digits at that time!

That first 1970s West Highland trip included surprise at the considerable layout at Craigendoran (which is effectively one end of Helensburgh town), dividing three ways to the WHL, Helensburgh main station, and the pier. It's surprising there was any use made of Helensburgh Upper station, with its handful of services per day, probably not too punctual in the Up direction, compared to the regular electric service from the main station down the hill. For a small town it has a lot of stations!

Craigendoran previously had even more extensive sidings which in the early 60's were used for storing coaching stock (including some ex Silver Jubilee articulated part sets (I recall creeping along hoping to not be seen looking at these), probably en route to be scrapped at nearby Ardmore West which also had extensive sidings. There were also (two) sidings at the Helensburgh end of the line towards Central.

Helensburgh Upper also had a small goods yard towards Craigendoran, presumably accessed by Ground Frame operated by key token - and Helensburgh Central a more extensive goods yard plus loco shed in steam days.

I would also add that despite living 10 mins walk from Helensburgh Central and twelve mins from Craigendoran I would use any excuse to use Helensburgh Upper, twenty plus uphill minutes away to travel on proper trains. It would also be convenient for those living in the upper part of the town if the train times matched their requirement. I was very seldom the only passenger to/from glasgow and there was of course also business towards Oban/Fort william and Mallaig and overnight to/from London.

 

[Magdalia]

I also recall seeing the Royal Train approaching Craigendoran in 1965 taking the Queen south after she had opened Cruachan Power Station just weeks after the slightly premature closure of the route through Callander which may well have been the originally planned route.

I am particularly interested in any more details of locos and route for this.

HM the Queen did this engagement by Royal Train from and to Balmoral. The outward journey was Ballater to Dalmally, which was the last Royal Train on the Royal Deeside line, and hauled to Aberdeen by D6142 and D6145. The return journey was Taynuilt to Alyth Junction, presumably then by road via the Spittal of Glenshee (one of my favourite place names which I never thought would appear here).

I think that you are probably right that, had the line still been open, the trains would have gone via Glen Ogle.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

I am particularly interested in any more details of locos and route for this.

I am afraid I cannot provide other detail, I would imagine it would have been 2 x 27 on the front but cannot confirm this but perhaps others can help.

 

[McRhu]

Are there any contemporary maps available of the Helensburgh area showing how things once were? Take it that Helensburgh Pier wasn't ever directly rail served?

Also, is it correct that the modern day Helensburgh (Central) station predates Helensburgh Upper station on the West Highland Line by quite a few decades?

You're probably aware of the NLS old maps, but here's a link (below). Other dates and scales are available of course. According to Stewart Noble's book (which I refererred to above) the NBR had intended to take the line out to Helensburgh pier, but were refused permission, hence the building of Craigendoran Station and pier. And Helensburgh Central did indeed predate Helensburgh Upper: 1858 vs 1894 as I understand it.

Georeferenced Maps viewer - Map images - National Library of Scotland

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Nov 2023 ==

@Cheshire Scot. Many thanks for those photos again. The number of school lunchtimes I spent at Craigendoran Crossing! By the way - the structures on the sea wall, visible in distance in the shot with the 27 and 303... any idea what they were for? D6130, myself and others came to the conclusion that they were wave breaks to protect the line from rough seas, but I don't think we ever got that confirmed. In my reckless school days I would inch along the 1" ledge and climb on them.

 

[WesternLancer]

Sorry but that is an up train on the only remaining platform line after the loop was taken out. My similar photo follows.

In mechanical signalling days only Tyndrum Upper and Bridge of Orchy had the option of right hand running, each in only one direction. Tokenless Block was the modus operanti betweeen Crianlarich Upper and Rannoch (I think from the late '60s) and at these two intermediate stations the box could be switched out so required one line to be signalled for both directions. All other loops only had an up line and a down line conventionally signalled (plus one or more sidings). Crianlarich Upper had ground disc signals enabling the 'timber Train' to arrive/depart on the wrong line to access Crianlarich Lower yard.

Several photos attached, and to correct my earlier post the PEP is not on the sea wall but approaching the junction but I have included a seawall photo of a 303 with the 12.58 Cadder - Corpach in the loop waiting for the 12.55 Queen St - Oban to clear Garelochhead. also a very poor photo of NBL loco taken over the hedge, in my defence my age was still in single digits at that time!



Craigendoran previously had even more extensive sidings which in the early 60's were used for storing coaching stock (including some ex Silver Jubilee articulated part sets (I recall creeping along hoping to not be seen looking at these), probably en route to be scrapped at nearby Ardmore West which also had extensive sidings. There were also (two) sidings at the Helensburgh end of the line towards Central.

Helensburgh Upper also had a small goods yard towards Craigendoran, presumably accessed by Ground Frame operated by key token - and Helensburgh Central a more extensive goods yard plus loco shed in steam days.

I would also add that despite living 10 mins walk from Helensburgh Central and twelve mins from Craigendoran I would use any excuse to use Helensburgh Upper, twenty plus uphill minutes away to travel on proper trains. It would also be convenient for those living in the upper part of the town if the train times matched their requirement. I was very seldom the only passenger to/from glasgow and there was of course also business towards Oban/Fort william and Mallaig and overnight to/from London.

Nice to see those pics - thanks for posting - enjoyed the PEP image amongst the enjoyable selection.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

@Cheshire Scot. Many thanks for those photos again. The number of school lunchtimes I spent at Craigendoran Crossing! By the way - the structures on the sea wall, visible in distance in the shot with the 27 and 303... any idea what they were for? D6130, myself and others came to the conclusion that they were wave breaks to protect the line from rough seas, but I don't think we ever got that confirmed. In my reckless school days I would inch along the 1" ledge and climb on them.

Yes, I always understood they were wave breaks, located adjacent to the junction signal (72) probably to protect the driver who had to come down to the phone to enquire why I - or a colleague - had had the audacity to stop him at that signal! It didn't happen often but always with good reason!

 

[McRhu]

Are there any contemporary maps available of the Helensburgh area showing how things once were? Take it that Helensburgh Pier wasn't ever directly rail served?

Also, is it correct that the modern day Helensburgh (Central) station predates Helensburgh Upper station on the West Highland Line by quite a few decades?

This one shows the original route of the line into Helensburgh: https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15.8&lat=55.99751&lon=-4.70760&layers=257&b=1

(Note - no WHL or Craigendoran Station)

 

[Cheshire Scot]

The present route of the North Electrics has two other deviations from the original alignment.
Early in the 20th century the construction of the Singer factory on the original alignment caused the line to divert through today's Singer station, the eastern part of the original alignment hosting Singer Works station a six platform terminus served by special workers trains and also sidings extending into the factory site.
In connection with the 1960 electrification the former NBR direct alignment between Bowling and Dumbarton Central was abandoned in favour of slightly longer route by way of a very short new chord at Dunglass Junction onto the ex Caledonian route enabling the electric trains to also serve the ex CR station at Dumbarton East. Today this is denoted by the changes in ELR and mileages at either end of the remaining ex CR section of route. The sidings of ESSO's Dunglass Oil Terminal were greatly extended along the former NB alignment at this time.

EDIT:

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Nov 2023 ==

There are some photos of the tank wagons you mention at the pier in Stewart Noble's 'The Vanished Railways of Old Western Dunbartonshire', (along with much else of interest, including a remaining bridge on that original route from Craigendoran to Helensburgh and photos of the Faslane Branch).

I have just retrieved this book from my bookshelf, an excellent source of info. and photographs for those interested in this area, also with a wider geography 'Glasgow and Dunbartonshire's Lost railways by Gordon Stansfield although this latter book does claim Clydebank East to be the location of what is actually an excellent photo on page 21 of Helensburgh Central presumably in the late 1950s (Clydebank East was a much smaller station, just a single island platform).

 

[Strathclyder]

Early in the 20th century the construction of the Singer factory on the original alignment caused the line to divert through today's Singer station, the eastern part of the original alignment hosting Singer Works station a six platform terminus served by special workers trains and also sidings extending into the factory site.

The Singer factory at Kilbowie had actually existed on that site since 1884 (replacing a factory located in Bridgeton in Glasgow's East End), but was subject to a massive expansion project in the late 1890s/early 1900s which swallowed up the original alignment, which necessitated it's replacement with the current one skirting the northern edge of the site, this deviation being known within the North British Railway (as it was by this period) as the Singer Deviation. The current Singer station was built as part of this project and was opened in November 1907, serving both the expanded factory and the local area, replacing the 1879 Kilbowie station on the original ailgnment in this role.

As a 'Bankie', I felt I had to correct/expand on this. I know this is not strictly relevent to the Helensburgh area, but it's worth expanding on all the same I feel.

 

[Taunton]

Craigendoran previously had even more extensive sidings which in the early 60's were used for storing coaching stock

I've an account in an old magazine that when the Blue Trains were introduced at the end of 1960, the old steam stock was stored at Craigendoran. It was still there when just a few weeks later the electric operations were abandoned, the old locos and stock resuscitated, and now the Blue Trains were parked at Craigendoran instead.

 

[McRhu]

That’s true. There were problems with the mercury arc rectifiers amongst other things. Up until the early 70s there were multiple sidings beside the running lines to the east of Craigendoran Junction. Beyond that, further east there was the remains of a large turntable and further, by then, dismantled sidings. Craigendoran was the Clapham Junction of its day.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Nov 2023 ==

I've an account in an old magazine that when the Blue Trains were introduced at the end of 1960, the old steam stock was stored at Craigendoran. It was still there when just a few weeks later the electric operations were abandoned, the old locos and stock resuscitated, and now the Blue Trains were parked at Craigendoran instead.

 

[Gloster]

Whilst I don't recall the C15 push pull operation, I do recall the railbus for the Arrochar locals and somewhere I have an excess ticket issued on the railbus from Rhu. I believe the local service ceased in 1963. It was a mystery to me how it was crewed, as the service started and finished the day in Arrochar, and this was well before the days when trains would run ECS to start the service, were there drivers and guards in Arrochar, or was it lodging turn for Helensburgh or Eastfield crews?

Having rooted around a bit on the Interweb-thingy and in books, I think that Arrochar & Tarbet was a sub shed of Helensburgh. ’Shed’ seems to be a bit of a misnomer as I think that the building disappeared long ago and the Eastfield C15 loco and carriages sat in the open in the yard: steam raising on a Monday morning in February must really have been an example of the true glory of steam. (I must make clear that I can find no definite information, but this is the only interpretation of what I can find: it is possible that the loco might have worked down on a local goods or light in the morning and back up in the evening.)

The shed closed at the same time as the Blue Trains appeared, but it may have continued as a stabling and signing-on point for the railbus as long as the service lasted. Looking at the 1963 summer timetable, it seems that the rail bus shuttled back and forth, but after the last up to Craigendoran it disappeared and the last down was worked by a unit with First Class. This then worked the Sunday services, except the last down, which was the railbus again.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

I've an account in an old magazine that when the Blue Trains were introduced at the end of 1960, the old steam stock was stored at Craigendoran. It was still there when just a few weeks later the electric operations were abandoned, the old locos and stock resuscitated, and now the Blue Trains were parked at Craigendoran instead.

I may well have seen the old steam stock and the Blue Trains stored in the extensive sidings but am too young to remember. I have vague memories of the steam operation and early days of the Blue trains and perhaps my memories of coaches stored may be circa 1962/1963 when scrapping was in full swing at Ardmore which I believe ran from 1960 until at least 1964.

Having arrived in Helensburgh in 1955 (before I was born) my parents - or more accurately my father - got to know a couple of the Helensburgh drivers who, once a young boy was showing an interest in the passing trains would blow the whistle each time they passed our house (well perhaps not early morning and late evening) but once the electrics were introduced my parents were somewhat embarrassed by the more intrusive sounding of the horns! Perhaps mercifully both retired fairly early in the electrified era! On one occasion one of the by then retired drivers invited me to accompany him to view some of the British Transport Films in the touring cinema coach which visited stations around the country to show these films to railway families. This fairly short train formation was stabled in the now removed short Platform 1 at Helensburgh Central, and I recall one of my classmates who was the daughter of a railwayman being rather surprised to see me there and wanted to know who was the 'old man' I was with! I also recall Caledonian 123 with the two preserved Caley coaches visiting and being stabled in platform 1 although I cannot recall the year or reason for the visit.

Having rooted around a bit on the Interweb-thingy and in books, I think that Arrochar & Tarbet was a sub shed of Helensburgh. ’Shed’ seems to be a bit of a misnomer as I think that the building disappeared long ago and the Eastfield C15 loco and carriages sat in the open in the yard: steam raising on a Monday morning in February must really have been an example of the true glory of steam. (I must make clear that I can find no definite information, but this is the only interpretation of what I can find: it is possible that the loco might have worked down on a local goods or light in the morning and back up in the evening.)

Certainly a plausible explanation for a local goods to have provided the loco.

The shed closed at the same time as the Blue Trains appeared, but it may have continued as a stabling and signing-on point for the railbus as long as the service lasted. Looking at the 1963 summer timetable, it seems that the rail bus shuttled back and forth, but after the last up to Craigendoran it disappeared and the last down was worked by a unit with First Class. This then worked the Sunday services, except the last down, which was the railbus again.

To correct my earlier post published evidence states the local service ceased in 1964 (not 63 as I said earlier).

 

[McRhu]

Again, thank you for a wonderful and atmospheric picture of Helensburgh Upper. On my regular travels up and down the WHL it always felt like (and with the advent of RETB, was!) the transition between the central belt and returning back to the Highlands. A tragedy that the original station building was demolished as well.

Regarding the signalling, after the loop was lifted and the signal box closed, was the route between Craigendoran and Garelochhead operated as one section, or were there any local signals within Helensburgh Upper itself? (I couldn’t make any out in the image).

ScotLAN. Apologies for not replying sooner. I don’t know how I missed your post. Thanks re. the photo. I wish I’d taken a lot more, but it’s the old story: slide film and developing were relatively expensive and Helensburgh Upper would always be there to photograph another day. We don’t know what we’ve got till it’s gone, true enough. As regards signalling Cheshire Scot and D6130 are much more qualified than I to answer that. Suffice it to say that I don’t remember any signals along the line between Craigendoran and Garelochhead (unless you count an old distant signal right down the Faslane Branch which isn’t really relevant).

 

[Siemens Staines]

The prototype PEP, 920001, was an almost daily visitor to Helensburgh Central in the 1976-1977 time-frame. I used to see it on most occasions when I wandered down to Craigendoran Junction during my school lunch hour.

I recall in the late 1970s being astonished to discover the evidence of the concrete ramps and old turntable of the servicing facility which by then was hidden beneath the undergrowth. I had no idea such a large facility had ever existed there, but I believe it was constructed to support all of the additional traffic that operated in WW1. I guess most of that was Faslane Naval or Glen Douglas Armament traffic?

 

[McRhu]

ps. It's my understanding that the boundary twixt highlands and lowlands was actually quite close to Helensburgh Upper, being demarcated by Whistler's Glen that the WHL crosses at Rhu.

 

[Gloster]

Various sources say Helensburgh Upper signal box closed and the loop put out of use on 21 July 1968.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Regarding the signalling, after the loop was lifted and the signal box closed, was the route between Craigendoran and Garelochhead operated as one section, or were there any local signals within Helensburgh Upper itself? (I couldn’t make any out in the image).

Prompted by the reply from @McRhu, once the signal box and loop had gone from Helensburgh Upper there were no signals between the Craigendoran starter and the Garelochhead distant and in the up direction none between the Garelochhead starter and the Craigendoran distant (the latter by then colour light, all the others were semaphore), it was one Electric Token section. Access to the Faslane branch was by ground frame with an intermediate token Instrument - traincrew used the key Token to open and work the frame then returned the token to the instrument, with the reverse for a train departing the branch, with the release of the token being given by the Signalmen at either end. Obviously there were telephone conversations around the return of and release of the token.

The prototype PEP, 920001, was an almost daily visitor to Helensburgh Central in the 1976-1977 time-frame. I used to see it on most occasions when I wandered down to Craigendoran Junction during my school lunch hour.

I recall in the late 1970s being astonished to discover the evidence of the concrete ramps and old turntable of the servicing facility which by then was hidden beneath the undergrowth. I had no idea such a large facility had ever existed there, but I believe it was constructed to support all of the additional traffic that operated in WW1. I guess most of that was Faslane Naval or Glen Douglas Armament traffic?

Aha, another Hermitage former pupil of a similar era as @D6130 130 and @McRhu and myself, perhaps a year or three behind us. Myself and @McRhu left in '74 and @D6130 moved south in I think 1972 or '73.

Funnily enough I never wandered to Craigendoran at lunch time but used to go there in evenings and weekends, being satisfied with views of the trains going up and down the hill from the school windows during the day.

At this stage it is worth mentioning I am going to be away for a few days with limited internet access so may not immediately be able to keep pace with updates.

 

[McRhu]

The prototype PEP, 920001, was an almost daily visitor to Helensburgh Central in the 1976-1977 time-frame. I used to see it on most occasions when I wandered down to Craigendoran Junction during my school lunch hour.

I recall in the late 1970s being astonished to discover the evidence of the concrete ramps and old turntable of the servicing facility which by then was hidden beneath the undergrowth. I had no idea such a large facility had ever existed there, but I believe it was constructed to support all of the additional traffic that operated in WW1. I guess most of that was Faslane Naval or Glen Douglas Armament traffic?

That's always been my belief - the infrastructure related to wartime traffic to and from Faslane, which was of course Military Port No. 1. I haunted Craigendoran junction between 1968 and 1974 and never saw an unusual working. No PEPs, 87s or whatever, but I remember being awestruck when a 311 passed - up until then they'd been banned from the North Bank.

 

[Gloster]

The prototype PEP, 920001, was an almost daily visitor to Helensburgh Central in the 1976-1977 time-frame. I used to see it on most occasions when I wandered down to Craigendoran Junction during my school lunch hour.

I recall in the late 1970s being astonished to discover the evidence of the concrete ramps and old turntable of the servicing facility which by then was hidden beneath the undergrowth. I had no idea such a large facility had ever existed there, but I believe it was constructed to support all of the additional traffic that operated in WW1. I guess most of that was Faslane Naval or Glen Douglas Armament traffic?

920001 was at Hyndland from 17-03-1976 to 28-08-1976. (Source: BloodandCustard website.)

Faslane, then Military Port No.1 only dated from World War II, while Glen Douglas only appeared in the 1960s. As far as the turntable is concerned, perhaps the authorities in World War I were intending to (or did) bring in mines for the North Sea Mine Barrage via Fort William or Mallaig (they did use Kyle of Lochalsh), although I do not know.