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Railway History in the Helensburgh Area

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Taunton

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Helensburgh Upper is situated in the most affluent area of this most affluent town but - prior to the replacement of loco-hauled trains by Sprinters in the late 1980s - the first Up departure wasn't until 10 33 (07 55 or 08 00 from Oban)....so not much use for commuting to Glasgow. As a result, many of the doctors, lawyers, architects, business magnates and other professionals who inhabited the large detached villas surrounding the Upper station would walk down the hill to Helensburgh Central in the morning to catch one of the 'express' electric trains (08 10 and 08 29 approximately) into Glasgow,
Ah yes. When I was working in Glasgow in the 1970s, in a most junior capacity but indeed in an architects' office, a colleague commuted in from Helensburgh, and made a significant fuss about these express services. He was as junior as me, but I think lived with his family. It must have been quite a timetabling exercise to fit these trains in, worse than getting the West Highland diesel services to interleave, and seemed to be achieved by heading off various other services just where they joined or started - in theory. But there were periodic late arrivals at his desk and overlong explanations in Reginald Perrin style about what had transpired that morning. Not too often, but I recall a few. The timings were a bit compressed for normal office hours, I seem to recall a necessary dash at not later than about 5.18pm (and we finished at 5.30) to hotfoot the 10 minutes down to Charing Cross to catch the last fast. Must have been galling to see its tail lights disappear into the tunnel ...

From that self-same architects office, I wish to apologise to you locals for the outcome of the 1970s station rebuildings at some of those lesser Glasgow Underground stations, being done at adjacent desks, and indeed for minor tracing and shading at mine. Past posts by me refer to this. It was an early experience of 'down to a budget'.
 
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Consensus is that the wooden structures were wave-breaks protecting the adjacent signal.

I often wondered what their purpose was. At the time I thought that they were for raising equipment from a small boat to the railway at high tide, although I have no idea why you would want to do that. This sounds a far better explanation. I guess therefore that these structures would only date from the time of colour light signalling being installed?
 

32475

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A couple of items of railwayana from Helensburgh Upper belonging to a good friend who spent his early years there
IMG_6043.jpeg
 

6Gman

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Helensburgh Upper was a lovely station back in the day (late 60s and through the 70s being my time): a place of roaring fires and the steady ticking of a huge clock in the stationmaster's room and pink Edmonson tickets. If I remember correctly the gas lighting persisted into the 70s. The station's demolition was a tragedy, done suddenly with very little warning. As regards a station at Faslane, this comes up quite often and as far as I can make out it would be sited on the WHL near the north gate. I would dearly love to see the Faslane Branch reopened - even if only to a halt where it used to cross the A814, but a station on the main line would be very welcome. There has also been talk of a pop-up trial station at Rhu. Anyway, a pic of HLU dated 1979.


View attachment 147203
A station where you'd be mighty pleased to step aboard a (hopefully) warm train!
 

Railsigns

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Looking through my notes, I was reminded of an unusual event at Helensburgh Upper that I'd completely forgotten about.

On 24 May 1991 I was travelling on the 16:40 service from Glasgow Queen Street to Oban. A mile beyond Helensburgh Upper the train came to a stop, then returned to the station to await passengers from the south who had missed their connection. I don't know if they hoofed it up the hill from Helensburgh Central or arrived by taxi from Glasgow.
 

Cheshire Scot

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Looking through my notes, I was reminded of an unusual event at Helensburgh Upper that I'd completely forgotten about.

On 24 May 1991 I was travelling on the 16:40 service from Glasgow Queen Street to Oban. A mile beyond Helensburgh Upper the train came to a stop, then returned to the station to await passengers from the south who had missed their connection. I don't know if they hoofed it up the hill from Helensburgh Central or arrived by taxi from Glasgow.
In the 70's it was a regular event for the 16.38 Qn St to FW or 18.35 Qn St - Oban, having left Queen St on time, to be put in the loop platform at Dumbarton Central to await passengers who has missed at Qn St due to late connections to arrive by EMU to catch up with their onward train there. Such waits could sometimes be circa half an hour.
 

McRhu

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I often wondered what their purpose was. At the time I thought that they were for raising equipment from a small boat to the railway at high tide, although I have no idea why you would want to do that. This sounds a far better explanation. I guess therefore that these structures would only date from the time of colour light signalling being installed?
I think they must have been concurrent, yes. At the time I had thought they were for storing materials on, but that wouldn't really be feasible either. For a start they were at different heights and secondly the stuff would stand a good chance of ending up on the sea bed at the next storm.
A couple of items of railwayana from Helensburgh Upper belonging to a good friend who spent his early years there
Beautiful. I must have passed those very signs many a time.
A station where you'd be mighty pleased to step aboard a (hopefully) warm train!
To go into Helensburgh Upper was to shut out the modern world: it was an outpost of a vanishing era: more civilised, heavy-wooden, dark-varnished, reassuringly-solid times. Train steam heating too in those days: not only toasty warm but very atmospheric on a cold night. I recall D6130 and myself returning down the line from Fort William on a winter's night in the early 70s and me taking a photo (which I still have somewhere) of the steam drifting around our Class 27 while stopped at Corrour in the moonlit snow. I believe the line became blocked after our train had passed south. Very tactile and evocative stuff steam, that appeals to all five senses.
 

32475

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Painting of Helensburgh Upper by Barrie A.F. Clark owned by the same owner as the railwayana in post #63 (sorry it’s not the best reproduced image)
IMG_6042.jpeg
 

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Although there were problems with the mercury arc rectifiers, I understand the reason for temporary withdrawal of the 303's was a series of spectacular transformer failures. Although the rectifiers were involved in setting up the electrical conditions that damaged the transformers, the transformer design was inadequate and they all had to be rebuilt.

The Railways Archive site has a copy of the Ministry of Transport accident report, which also discusses problems with other early AC traction fleets. The report can be found at: https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/MoT_EMUFailures1962.pdf

There are some photographs of the Glasgow failures at: https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BC-AM3GlasgowBlueTrains.html
While I've been aware of the problems the 303s had after they entered service for some time now, I'd never seen those pictures before now, nor was I aware of the Charing Cross incident prior to the full service introduction. Two fascinating links there, thanks for sharing them.

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The prototype PEP unit was mentioned upthread to have spent a not-insignificant amount of time on the North Clyde line in 1976/77, working out of Hyndland depot. I've found these two images on Railscot of 920-001 at Ardmore Crossing (between Cardross & Craigendoran), both from c.1977 (originally taken by Gordon Smith, provided courtesy of Ken Browne).


 
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McRhu

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Painting of Helensburgh Upper by Barrie A.F. Clark owned by the same owner as the railwayana in post #63 (sorry it’s not the best reproduced image)
I'm fond of that painting. I think that's the first time I seen HLU gracing a canvas. First loco I ever saw pulling in was a class 29 in the now closed loop where 9135 is in the painting.
 

32475

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I'm fond of that painting. I think that's the first time I seen HLU gracing a canvas. First loco I ever saw pulling in was a class 29 in the now closed loop where 9135 is in the painting.
What year was that? You’ve obviously got some fond memories of the place.

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I came across this cover of Modern Railways from November’62 showing a service from Helensburgh to Airdrie approaching Dalmuir Park
IMG_6050.jpeg
 

McRhu

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While I've been aware of the problems the 303s had after they entered service for some time now, I'd never seen those pictures before now, nor was I aware of the Charing Cross incident prior to the full service introduction. Two fascinating links there, thanks for sharing them.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

The prototype PEP unit was mentioned upthread to have spent a not-insignificant amount of time on the North Clyde line in 1976/77, working out of Hyndland depot. I've found these two images on Railscot of 920-001 at Ardmore Crossing (between Cardross & Craigendoran), both from c.1977 (originally taken by Gordon Smith, provided courtesy of Ken Browne).


PEP started out as a DC unit didn't it? I liked the front end design and was disappointed when the 314s eventually appeared.
 

32475

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Also this cover from Modern Railways Jan ‘63. This was probably a static publicity photo otherwise the photographer and camera might not have survived in tact!
IMG_6049.jpeg
 

McRhu

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What year was that? You’ve obviously got some fond memories of the place.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

I came across this cover of Modern Railways from November’62 showing a service from Helensburgh to Airdrie approaching Dalmuir Park
Great photo. The AM3s, as built, were (to me anyway) the handsomest units ever to polish the UK's metals. Having met an ex- Blue Train Livery Applier in Stranraer I can confirm that the yellow and black lining of the livery was painted freehand and not Letraset or whatever the 1960 equivalent of vinyls was; a nice touch on an already superb colour scheme. The Class 29 at The Upper would have been 1967 or 68 if my memory is to be trusted.

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That second photo looks familiar. :D BR got their money's worth from that shot! It was also used as a reference pic for an illustration in a junior railway book. I think the illustrator was T.E. North.

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A question regarding railway infrastructure.... Beside the West Highland Line, not many yards beyond Faslane Junction and the POW platform there was a sizable rectangular hole in the ground. This was approx 7'-8' deep and I'm half-guessing, some 20 feet long by 10' across. It was lined with white brick or tile. The bottom was just boggy earth and moss. Any ideas what this would have been? A reservoir, or foundations of a long lost building?
 
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Strathclyder

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PEP started out as a DC unit didn't it? I liked the front end design and was disappointed when the 314s eventually appeared.
Yes indeed it did, first working out of Wimbledon Park & Strawberry Hill in the South Western Division and then a brief - and rather potted - spell on the South Eastern Division.

Blood & Custard has a highly detailed page on their careers. Link here: https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-4PEP.html
 

Cheshire Scot

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A question regarding railway infrastructure.... Beside the West Highland Line, not many yards beyond Faslane Junction and the POW platform there was a sizable rectangular hole in the ground. This was approx 7'-8' deep and I'm half-guessing, some 20 feet long by 10' across. It was lined with white brick or tile. The bottom was just boggy earth and moss. Any ideas what this would have been? A reservoir, or foundations of a long lost building?
A wagon turntable perhaps - short wheelbase wagons 21ft long - although I'm not sure why they might want to turn wagons there.
 

McRhu

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A wagon turntable perhaps - short wheelbase wagons 21ft long - although I'm not sure why they might want to turn wagons there.
The more I think about it the more hazy it becomes - even the exact location. I think it was surrounded by a low wall. Looked on the old maps and satellite but nothing visible.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Yes indeed it did, first working out of Wimbledon Park & Strawberry Hill in the South Western Division and then a brief - and rather potted - spell on the South Eastern Division.

Blood & Custard has a highly detailed page on their careers. Link here: https://www.bloodandcustard.com/BR-4PEP.html
Many thanks.
 
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Railsigns

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A question regarding railway infrastructure.... Beside the West Highland Line, not many yards beyond Faslane Junction and the POW platform there was a sizable rectangular hole in the ground. This was approx 7'-8' deep and I'm half-guessing, some 20 feet long by 10' across. It was lined with white brick or tile. The bottom was just boggy earth and moss. Any ideas what this would have been? A reservoir, or foundations of a long lost building?
Possibly an inspection pit for the small loco shed at that location.
 

matchmaker

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I had an aunt and uncle who had a flat in one of the "big hooses" in Sinclair Street. On one visit I was taken up to the Upper station, and saw a token exchange taking place. This would date the visit to before 1968. I can't remember what type of loco - possibly a 21/29?
 

nw1

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In the 70's it was a regular event for the 16.38 Qn St to FW or 18.35 Qn St - Oban, having left Queen St on time, to be put in the loop platform at Dumbarton Central to await passengers who has missed at Qn St due to late connections to arrive by EMU to catch up with their onward train there. Such waits could sometimes be circa half an hour.

Interesting... but it does appear that in 1982 at least, the service to Fort William in particular was extremely sparse. In fact to Fort William and Mallaig just two trains per day ran all year: the 0600 (the sleeper from London) and the 1634 (there was also the high-summer-only 0834). So the latter was literally the only day train, small wonder they could get away with holding it for 30 mins!

Oban was better with three day trains 0804, 1255, 1823.

Amazingly there was no Sunday service at all. Surprising, I'd have expected there to have been a market for weekend trips from Glasgow to Fort William, returning Sunday early evening.

Times from the 1982 timetable on Timetable World.

ISTR the Oban pattern was similar to that which existed in the 00s, though by then FW and Mallaig also had 3 day trains, IIRC. I remember at Easter 2008 (very early, around March 23, and distinctly wintry) there was an 1800-ish southbound from FW (around the time the sleeper departed in 1982) and a northbound calling Corrour at around 2100, which obviously left Queen Street later than 1634. (This was a return trip to Corrour to visit the pub there... it was quite an experience to wait in the pitch darkness and snow at Corrour station for that late northbound return!)
 
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Cheshire Scot

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Interesting... but it does appear that in 1982 at least, the service to Fort William in particular was extremely sparse. In fact to Fort William and Mallaig just two trains per day ran all year: the 0600 (the sleeper from London) and the 1634 (there was also the high-summer-only 0834). So the latter was literally the only day train, small wonder they could get away with holding it for 30 mins!

Oban was better with three day trains 0804, 1255, 1823.
Yes, just two trains all year to Fort William plus a summer extra, same every year back to the 50s 60s and 70s, although for some years in the sixties there was also a summer 03.45 Edinburgh to Fort William, just the three coach portion from Kings X plus 1 Edinburgh coach (6 coach portion on Saturday mornings), this continued to run on Saturdays only in the 70's. I'm not certain but I think it may have had something to do with enabling Kings X Sleeping Car attendants to have a short turnround and return same night whereas the winter timings actually required them to stay overnight on a circa 30 hour turnround.
The 08.34 was later retimed to 09.50 and then also ran MFSO in winter, an out and back working for a Glasgow crew whereas the previous summer train required two fort William crews and two Glasgow crews balanced by travelling one direction passenger. .

For many years the three Oban's were 01.00 08.35 and 18.35, the 12.55 was introduced when the 01.00 was withdrawn as a passenger service although it still ran with Parcels, Mail and Newspapers, just one BG, it was later re-instated as a passenger train for a few years with one coach added to the BG (still only 3 up trains).
In the 60s and early 70s Oban also had a summer train 10.35 (11.35 in the earlier years) from Glasgow (18.55 return) formed of a class 120 DMU in which the Buffet was staffed (replaced in it's final year by the refurbished class 101 (without buffet)).

Prior to closure of the route through Callander in 1965 the Oban service was slightly more generous although that did include the equivalent of the 01.00 and a train from Stirling at 05.xx conveying (daily in summer and weekends in winter) the Euston sleeper.

EDIT: some fine detail edited 30 mins after original post.
 
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D6130

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The 08.34 was later retimed to 09.50 and then also ran MFSO in winter, an out and back working for a Glasgow crew whereas the previous summer train required two fort William crews and two Glasgow crews balanced by travelling one direction passenger. .
IIRC, for a while in the late 1960s/early 1970s the Summer dated Down Fort William/Mallaig service departed Queen Street at 10 05 and Helensburgh Upper at 10 46.
 
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Amazingly there was no Sunday service at all. Surprising, I'd have expected there to have been a market for weekend trips from Glasgow to Fort William, returning Sunday early evening.

There was a strong religious belief in the West Highlands that Sunday was the day of rest, and that applied just as much to railway staff as it did to everyone else. So all of the signal boxes would be closed. IIRC that situation didn't change until around 1980? I had lost interest in trains by that time, but I recall one sunny Sunday morning in the summer of 1981 when I was mowing the lawn of our house which was on the opposite side of the loch to WHL, and faintly hearing what sounded like a Deltic engine in the far distance. Well Deltics didn't work on the WHL, and there was no such thing as a Sunday train service so it must be a fishing boat with a Napier engine somewhere out on the loch? Years later, I discovered a Summer Sunday Edinburgh - Oban service had been introduced, and it had been a Deltic that I heard (55021).
 

Cheshire Scot

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There was a strong religious belief in the West Highlands that Sunday was the day of rest, and that applied just as much to railway staff as it did to everyone else. So all of the signal boxes would be closed. IIRC that situation didn't change until around 1980? I had lost interest in trains by that time, but I recall one sunny Sunday morning in the summer of 1981 when I was mowing the lawn of our house which was on the opposite side of the loch to WHL, and faintly hearing what sounded like a Deltic engine in the far distance. Well Deltics didn't work on the WHL, and there was no such thing as a Sunday train service so it must be a fishing boat with a Napier engine somewhere out on the loch? Years later, I discovered a Summer Sunday Edinburgh - Oban service had been introduced, and it had been a Deltic that I heard (55021).
Although there were no timetabled trains on Sundays until well into the 1980s, there was never a shortage of traincrew and signalmen willing to turn out for Sunday ballast trains (or even at busy times Special Freight trains), time and threequarters and often shifts of ten or twelve hours was quite an incentive, plus of course the P Way staff to actually do the hard graft.

In I think the second season of the Sunday Edinburgh Deltic excursions a balancing Oban to Glasgow working was introduced, running for about eight weeks in summer. Fort William however had to wait for the Sprinter era before it saw a passenger service on Sundays.
 

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For a real, authentic taste of the WHL not too many years ago I'd recommend 'A Line for All Seasons' DVD for those who haven't seen it yet. The top end of the line was a different world to the Glasgow end and the Fourth Commandment had long been held sway in those north-westerly lands and isles (along with the other nine), but times were a-changin'. As regards the Deltic (and subsequent large locos) on the WHL. When I started my WHL gricing in the late 60s such a thing was unimaginable - it was type 1 or type 2 or nothing. I couldn't believe my eyes when an EE Type 3 turned up at Fort William one day - now it's open season for type 4s and type 5s and you could routinely expect to bag a 66 or a 47 along with your grouse on Rannoch..
 

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For a real, authentic taste of the WHL not too many years ago I'd recommend 'A Line for All Seasons' DVD for those who haven't seen it yet.
There are also some early 1960s videos (cine) on You Tube, three or four which split the journey into sections and show it as it used to be - including a cl27 & 2 coaches substituting for the Railbus on the 'wee Arrochar', and that unique West Highland pairing of cl 27 and steam piped cl 20 on the down sleeper. Videos of Kyle and Far North are in the same set.
 

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When I started my WHL gricing in the late 60s such a thing was unimaginable - it was type 1 or type 2 or nothing. I couldn't believe my eyes when an EE Type 3 turned up at Fort William one day
The January-June 1968 Helensburgh Upper train register shows that class 37s - then recently transferred to Eastfield from South Wales, primarily for oil trains from Grangemouth - were being trialled on certain West Highland freight trains during that period. Apparently the Divisional Civil Engineer wasn't too happy about the effects of their long-wheelbase bogies on the permanent way, so we had to wait another ten years before they reappeared in any numbers.
 

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ISTR the Oban pattern was similar to that which existed in the 00s, though by then FW and Mallaig also had 3 day trains, IIRC.
I think there was a brief period after the Sprinters were introduced when both routes had 4 trains per day (i.e. 4 Glasgow departures/arrivals, splitting/joining at Crianlarich), but it didn't last long. (There were also various summer extras in the 1980s and erly 90s).
 
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I remember being on the school bus home in May 1978, and being astounded to see a light engine 37108 at the top of Faslane hill. I had seen the occasional 37 when passing Bowling oil terminal, and one class 47, but nothing west of there. I guess these more exotic classes may have visited the small Freightliner terminal at Dumbarton East, but I saw very few locos use that facility.
 
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