BR Railway-Sociology-History gem - "Engines Must Not Enter The Potato Siding"

[70014IronDuke]

I know this 1969 BBC programme has been mentioned in this forum a number of times, but I think it deserves a thread of its own.

It really is a gem of a production, I think it could be used in schools and universities to show kids of today what things were like in the 60s ('cos although it appeared in 69, it's obvious a lot was shot earlier, when the railways were largely steam). If I were a teacher in the Sheffield area, I'd certainly make sure I got it into a class, even if my subject were Latin or biology

The accents alone are amazing - I love the way the signalman at Woodhead Box has a Lancastrian-Mancunian twang, distinctly different from the Yorkshire just over the hill, maybe 4 miles distant.

As for hard-core, pure rail, the programme focuses on two journeys, Sheffield - Woodhead - Man Picc and Birmingham - Sheffield on the Midland route.

As far as I can tell, you get glimpses of Tamworth HL, Burton-on-Trent, no Derby (surprisingly), Ambergate and the old approach to Sheffield Midland.

PUZZLE: What I don't recognise is the massive junction at 29.30. It's surely neither Derby nor Chesterfield - so it doesn't fit the text.

Is it Leeds?

Another interesting point: The Euston announcer for the 09.00 to Manchester (via Crewe) does not mention Stockport as a stop - I'd always imagined virtually all the electric services stopped there. Seemingly it was not viewed as so important in 66-67 time.

On the Woodhead line, there is very sensitive coverage of how tough and dangerous life for the navies and their families was at the time. Not much 'elf and safety back in those days, alas.

I'm surprised they don't show a five-second shot of the city scape featuring Hillsborough - one of the most memorable views from those trains IMHO, but I suppose you can't have everything.

 

[Western 52]

I've not seen this programme before, but just watched it. It has some great footage, particularly the Woodhead line and the signalbox. Many thanks for sharing it!

 

[John Luxton]

I remember seeing this as a youngster. I was visiting my great aunt and uncle at the time who knew I was into railways and my uncle asked if I wanted to watch it which I did. It was great to spot it a few months ago on iPlayer and watch it again.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Have just watched it,very enjoyable.

('cos although it appeared in 69, it's obvious a lot was shot earlier, when the railways were largely steam)

The steam footage is credited to British Transport Films. The Monica poster appeared about 1967/8 and the uniform styles are definitely late 60s.

 

[32475]

Wow thanks for sharing that. It covers so many of the discussion topics on this forum and should be compulsory viewing for all!

 

[simonw]

I know this 1969 BBC programme has been mentioned in this forum a number of times, but I think it deserves a thread of its own.

It really is a gem of a production, I think it could be used in schools and universities to show kids of today what things were like in the 60s ('cos although it appeared in 69, it's obvious a lot was shot earlier, when the railways were largely steam). If I were a teacher in the Sheffield area, I'd certainly make sure I got it into a class, even if my subject were Latin or biology

The accents alone are amazing - I love the way the signalman at Woodhead Box has a Lancastrian-Mancunian twang, distinctly different from the Yorkshire just over the hill, maybe 4 miles distant.

As for hard-core, pure rail, the programme focuses on two journeys, Sheffield - Woodhead - Man Picc and Birmingham - Sheffield on the Midland route.

As far as I can tell, you get glimpses of Tamworth HL, Burton-on-Trent, no Derby (surprisingly), Ambergate and the old approach to Sheffield Midland.

PUZZLE: What I don't recognise is the massive junction at 29.30. It's surely neither Derby nor Chesterfield - so it doesn't fit the text.

Is it Leeds?

Another interesting point: The Euston announcer for the 09.00 to Manchester (via Crewe) does not mention Stockport as a stop - I'd always imagined virtually all the electric services stopped there. Seemingly it was not viewed as so important in 66-67 time.

On the Woodhead line, there is very sensitive coverage of how tough and dangerous life for the navies and their families was at the time. Not much 'elf and safety back in those days, alas.

I'm surprised they don't show a five-second shot of the city scape featuring Hillsborough - one of the most memorable views from those trains IMHO, but I suppose you can't have everything.

Great find, but given the talk of the closure of the Woodhead line and the postings used its clearly made so in before it was broadcast with the steam shots being from the BTF.

 

[40C]

The junction at 29.30 might be Preston, just North of the station.

 

[L+Y]

The junction at 29.30 might be Preston, just North of the station.

Yep- I'm pretty sure it's Preston.

 

[Irascible]

Been a while since I saw this... there's all sorts of little details you can pull out - secondman's weekly wage of £14 is vaguely around £250 ( depends exactly which year it was asked ); not sure how many hours a secondman would work in the 60s but for a 40 hr week that's considerably less than the current minimum wage.

Some of the Woodhead route crew appearing here would presumably have still been there when the line was closed completely - a followup programme 10 years later might have been interesting.

 

[Taunton]

The opening shot of a K4 2-6-0 running in notably (for black/white) pale livery is 3442 "The Great Marquess", one of the pioneer preservation locos, which ran excursions in the mid-1960s, restored to LNER light green livery. It's probably somewhere in Scotland.

 

[Ash Bridge]

Another interesting point: The Euston announcer for the 09.00 to Manchester (via Crewe) does not mention Stockport as a stop - I'd always imagined virtually all the electric services stopped there. Seemingly it was not viewed as so important in 66-67 time.

I can remember up until at least 1973 the down evening Manchester Pullman was routed via Crewe, Wilmslow then onwards to Manchester Piccadilly via the Styal Line, what I can’t recall is if there was also a morning down service or indeed standard IC service that did likewise.

Superb BBC documentary was that, watched it when first broadcast during around 1970 when aged about 13, was absolutely gutted that I never managed a single journey over the Woodhead Line.

 

[D6130]

The opening shot of a K4 2-6-0 running in notably (for black/white) pale livery is 3442 "The Great Marquess", one of the pioneer preservation locos, which ran excursions in the mid-1960s, restored to LNER light green livery. It's probably somewhere in Scotland.

I've a feeling that shot was on the Weardale branch in Co. Durham. 3442 worked a rail tour up there in the mid-sixties. Fabulous film!

 

[70014IronDuke]

Yep- I'm pretty sure it's Preston.

Hmmmm. That's a good shout, the gantry looks right - but surely the main line goes straight north out of Preston, with only the Blackpool line swinging to the left, ie westwards?

Totally off piste to put that in, considering the film is about trains to Sheffield!

I'll have to look again - I think the train is all BR blue and grey, meaning it would have to have been taken somewhere near the end of steam.

 

[D6130]

Hmmmm. That's a good shout, the gantry looks right - but surely the main line goes straight north out of Preston, with only the Blackpool line swinging to the left, ie westwards?

No. All lines swing to the left leaving Preston....then the Blackpool line line goes straight on at Fylde Junction, while the WCML swings right and then heads straight Northwards towards Lancaster. I too am certain that the sequence in question was filmed at Preston.

 

[Elecman]

No. All lines swing to the left leaving Preston....then the Blackpool line line goes straight on at Fylde Junction, while the WCML swings right and then heads straight Northwards towards Lancaster. I too am certain that the sequence in question was filmed at Preston.

The Blackpool line divergence at Fylde junction is more pronounced to the left whilst the main route north to Lancaster is much less of a divergence to the right

 

[6Gman]

And the arrival at Piccadilly at the end features the departing North Country Continental which brought an East Anglian 37 to Manchester each day.

 

[tbwbear]

Thanks for creating this thread...

One of my favorites - watch it often.


Interesting how the announcer at Euston uses the phrase "The nine hours" to Manchester... I never heard that in real life back in the 70s - so did it used to be common in the 60s and before ?


I love the way they use that Good Morning Starshine (1969 from the musical Hair) song on the Euston to Manchester footage, it seems to help really give the impression of the new, confident railway of tomorrow. The film actually shows Euston off well, I think.

What are the stations the train is seen flashing through on the way to Manchester ?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

The junction at 29.30 might be Preston, just North of the station.

Yep- I'm pretty sure it's Preston.

No. All lines swing to the left leaving Preston....then the Blackpool line line goes straight on at Fylde Junction, while the WCML swings right and then heads straight Northwards towards Lancaster. I too am certain that the sequence in question was filmed at Preston.

My home station when in the UK. I could swear it is Preston too.

 

[6Gman]

What are the stations the train is seen flashing through on the way to Manchester ?

The only station where the Down Fast runs one across from a Platform 7 appears to be Watford Junction and I'm sure that isn't Watford Junction (at 33.50) !

The station at 32.30 is, I believe, Watford Junction.

 

[Taunton]

Interesting how the announcer at Euston uses the phrase "The nine hours" to Manchester... I never heard that in real life back in the 70s - so did it used to be common in the 60s and before ?

Yes, an early use of 24 hour clock expressions. For 0900.

 

[AndrewE]

Yes, an early use of 24 hour clock expressions. For 0900.

I think the BBC World Service are now (again?) using something like "It is now 3 GMT" which seems very odd to me. I am used to "Oh three hundred hours" or "3 a.m." or even "3-o'clock," but just "3" with no units to give the context sounds wrong.

 

[tbwbear]

Another really small detail that somehow interests me....

In the scene in the restaurant car on the Manchester train (32.24) there is a bowl of ice on the table and the lady spoons a cube into her drink. I vaguely remember seeing that in dining cars back in the 1970s. The drinks were brought without ice and then you added ice yourself ? Why did they used to do that ?

 

[Taunton]

Another really small detail that somehow interests me....

In the scene in the restaurant car on the Manchester train (32.24) there is a bowl of ice on the table and the lady spoons a cube into her drink. I vaguely remember seeing that in dining cars back in the 1970s. The drinks were brought without ice and then you added ice yourself ? Why did they used to do that ?

So you could decide how much ice. There isn't the space on the table for an ice bucket and British people were unused to drinks served with ice already in them. Also the Scottish tradition "Never water another man's whisky" applies to ice as much as its liquid equivalent. It's up to you to put it in.

Beer in trains was served with two glasses and a bottle. One of the glasses had ice in it, making it cold. The steward then tipped the ice out into the second, empty glass, and poured the beer into the now cold first glass.

Old fashioned cocktail bar ways (except the whisky ... water approach still applies). George Behrend, in his book about railway catering, covers a number of these traditions.

Back to railways

 

[Efini92]

The only station where the Down Fast runs one across from a Platform 7 appears to be Watford Junction and I'm sure that isn't Watford Junction (at 33.50) !

The station at 32.30 is, I believe, Watford Junction.

It is Watford isn’t it? That looks like St Albans road bridge in the distance.

 

[70014IronDuke]

No. All lines swing to the left leaving Preston....then the Blackpool line line goes straight on at Fylde Junction, while the WCML swings right and then heads straight Northwards towards Lancaster. I too am certain that the sequence in question was filmed at Preston.

Fair enough. I am persuaded. It was 48 years ago when I was there last, riding on a Class 50 with panto test train!

 

[midland1]

Chesterfield is at 22.40, you can see the new colour light signals at 22.43.