So many announcements, so few people taking them on board

[iphone76]

We can lower but not mute. They can also annoyingly be heard to an extent through the cab door. Best just to sing out loud.


It really is monotonous. Who wants to hear the ‘see it say it sorted’ tosh? I can however knock it out at termini stations which I do most of the time.

Got you. On the old 315s we could do that, which was fine. But on the 345s it's either stadium volume or nothing (apparnetly you can turn it down, but it doenst work). As you know, our stops are so close together so the journey between Stratford and Maryland is just one big announcement.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

Yes some people say they do not hear announcements, or ask why there was no information regarding upcoming engineering works, or ongoing disruption, or information about lifts being out of service etc. There are also those with visual impairements who complain about the lack of relevant PA information on board and at stations

I didn't say I personally believed this but to pretend it doesn't happen and also to disregard the (albeit minority) opinions of certain groups is rather blunt. I did expect such a response from RUK forums though; not everyone is within a railway bubble or uses the network often.

Yes, I agree that announcements in times of service disruption might serve a purpose and that people with visual impairments may find them beneficial. My point is that, for the vast majority of passengers, the barrage of incessant and meaningless announcements means that, on the rare occasion you actually need to hear one, nobody is listening.

As an example, we all have to put up with that "see it say it sort it" drivel on a daily basis but we all know that there hasn't been a serious security threat to the railway for decades!

 

[Horizon22]

Yes, I agree that announcements in times of service disruption might serve a purpose and that people with visual impairments may find them beneficial. My point is that, for the vast majority of passengers, the barrage of incessant and meaningless announcements means that, on the rare occasion you actually need to hear one, nobody is listening.

Do you speak for the "vast majority of passengers"? Do you have any evidence to back this up that isn't hearsay? I'm not saying there are not issues but to be so dismissive isn't helpful either.

As an example, if there’s wet weather and someone slips, trips or falls at a station, do you know what is often asked in the investigation “were we playing a wet weather announcement?” Something decried as often useless on these forums - and I may even tend to agree - but a failure can make it easier for someone to make a claim against the TOC or NR, which costs us all money as opposed to a near £0 cost to play a PA.

As an example, we all have to put up with that "see it say it sort it" drivel on a daily basis but we all know that there hasn't been a serious security threat to the railway for decades!

Well that is untrue. Not to mention it's not just for threats like terrorism but how many people know the 61016 number now? It's awareness which is still very useful even if it can be turned into a meme and moaned about.

 

[yorkie]

It's a lose/lose though - people then complain when they're not told about issues "oh I didn't hear any announcements". And yes it is true - I have seen such complaints and they can be quite serious (especially where equality and disabled access comes into it)....

I've been on trains where the balance is right; admittedly it's rare in the UK, but it's not uncommon in some of the better countries I've visited!

 

[rower40]

And yet, with all the barrage of announcements, it’s quite rare to be told which side of the train will be against the platform. As in ‘We are now approaching Xxx - the doors will open on the left of the train.” Easy to deduce from TD maps at stations where there’s a choice, but no PA systems seem to do it automatically. Imagine how useful that would be to someone of limited or no vision.

Similarly some announcement that the train is going to reverse at its next stop. (Derby on Nottingham to Cardiff trains for example.)

“If you see something unusual…” “Yes officer, the voyager today was 8 cars, and normally it’s 4. And it was early. If that’s not unusual, I don’t know what is!”

 

[Statto]

I hate the constant bombardment of the automated H&S, security & general spam messages over tannoys, that i switch off when i'm using the rail network, as do many other passengers, so it's not really surprising the type of stuff the OP mentions happens.

 

[Russel]

This is something I've mentioned on here before, it's an annoyance of mine on the LNWR Trent Valley services where the trains are equipped with decent quality auto announcements, the guards almost without fail will then repeat the same announcement, just quieter and usually mumbled...

It was worse during Covid, there was a couple of guards that seemed to really enjoy making long, drawn out announcements about masks and distancing, I remember once leaving Crewe and we were well on the way to Stafford when they finished, what's worse is it was at about 9pm just prior to the second lockdown, there was about 5 passengers on the train!

 

[TUC]

Not surprised, they need to cut the crap. I was on an SWR service recently and it was relentless, and I felt sorry for the poor guard who had to keep delivering all this.

Who cares for monologues about taking all your personal items with you, paying attention to the safety labels next to the window, pentalty fares being in operation, texting 61016 if you see something suspicious.

Essential info only - the next station is X, the train splits at Y please ensure you are in the right part of the train.

I agree. The key information on next stations etc is very important, but does anyone in the rail industry seriously think that passengers want to hear safety notices, 61016 announcements etc on every journey? If so, they need to get out into the real world.

 

[BayPaul]

Do you speak for the "vast majority of passengers"? Do you have any evidence to back this up that isn't hearsay? I'm not saying there are not issues but to be so dismissive isn't helpful either.

As an example, if there’s wet weather and someone slips, trips or falls at a station, do you know what is often asked in the investigation “were we playing a wet weather announcement?” Something decried as often useless on these forums - and I may even tend to agree - but a failure can make it easier for someone to make a claim against the TOC or NR, which costs us all money as opposed to a near £0 cost to play a PA.



Well that is untrue. Not to mention it's not just for threats like terrorism but how many people know the 61016 number now? It's awareness which is still very useful even if it can be turned into a meme and moaned about.

It was noted up thread that TfL have never done a study on the effectiveness of safety announcements. If they were to do such a study, they would probably be able to better understand how to make effective use of announcements such as for wet weather, and have a much better defendable position in court.

I would suggest that in reality an announcement telling soaking wet passengers who have just come off the street in a station that it is raining is rather pointless and could be defended as such. An announcement on a nice dry train coming out of a tunnel to the first station with wet platforms would be far more relevant.

Over use of announcements is surely more hazardous than playing them correctly, as they get ignored. Perhaps the investigators ask the wrong questions!

 

[TUC]

Do you speak for the "vast majority of passengers"? Do you have any evidence to back this up that isn't hearsay? I'm not saying there are not issues but to be so dismissive isn't helpful either.

As an example, if there’s wet weather and someone slips, trips or falls at a station, do you know what is often asked in the investigation “were we playing a wet weather announcement?” Something decried as often useless on these forums - and I may even tend to agree - but a failure can make it easier for someone to make a claim against the TOC or NR, which costs us all money as opposed to a near £0 cost to play a PA.

Someone at NR or a TOC wanting to cover their backsides does not mean the announcements are anything but annoying drivel for most passengers, and they need to hear that.

 

[Horizon22]

I've been on trains where the balance is right; admittedly it's rare in the UK, but it's not uncommon in some of the better countries I've visited!

I think you’re right and it also does depend whether you’re on a train or a station to some extent.

GWR were pumping out these incredibly annoying announcements at stations like Slough and Swindon telling people to “use the handrail” whilst using stairs which was incredibly loud and obnoxious and kept playing as someone else joined the stairway so must have been motion triggered. But others have a good balance of what is tedious yet required and that which is helpful.

I would suggest that in reality an announcement telling soaking wet passengers who have just come off the street in a station that it is raining is rather pointless and could be defended as such. An announcement on a nice dry train coming out of a tunnel to the first station with wet platforms would be far more relevant.

So would I, but such is the culture where people look to blame someone else that this can become an issue. A lot of announcements end up being reactionary and/or scheduled on too high frequencies.

 

[TUC]

And yet, with all the barrage of announcements, it’s quite rare to be told which side of the train will be against the platform. As in ‘We are now approaching Xxx - the doors will open on the left of the train.” Easy to deduce from TD maps at stations where there’s a choice, but no PA systems seem to do it automatically. Imagine how useful that would be to someone of limited or no vision.

The screens on Northern's trains announce this, but oddly and annoyingly the PA does not and, as you say, it is a key piece of information for visually impaired passengers. Given the announcements replicate most of the rest of the on-screen informatio it is a rather odd omission.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

This is something I've mentioned on here before, it's an annoyance of mine on the LNWR Trent Valley services where the trains are equipped with decent quality auto announcements, the guards almost without fail will then repeat the same announcement, just quieter and usually mumbled...

It was worse during Covid, there was a couple of guards that seemed to really enjoy making long, drawn out announcements about masks and distancing, I remember once leaving Crewe and we were well on the way to Stafford when they finished, what's worse is it was at about 9pm just prior to the second lockdown, there was about 5 passengers on the train!

All of which are mandatory manual announcements that we have no choice (well obviously we do but at the risk of being pulled up over...) but to make.

Between Stafford and Rugby, all stations require an announcement due to being common connection points for XC and the Cannock line, and 2 are UDS stations so which do you cut?

Yes there is 1 particular Crewe guard who does make rather long manual announcements, but just 1 that I can recall.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

The screens on Northern's trains announce this

But at first can often be wrong, then changing to correct a second or two later, causing more confusion.

 

[Purple Train]

Well that is untrue. Not to mention it's not just for threats like terrorism but how many people know the 61016 number now? It's awareness which is still very useful even if it can be turned into a meme and moaned about.

It's a perfect case of "no such thing as bad publicity".

I really like the manual announcements on the Elizabeth line Line, and there are some drivers who do them exceptionally well, but I can understand why the sort of people who look on trains as slow, boring entities that ought to speed them to work but constantly get delayed get pretty annoyed and blank it out when, every day, without fail, the driver comes on at Southall and says, "This train will next call at Ealing Broadway. This train is not stopping at Hanwell and West Ealing. This train is ready to depart, please stand clear of the closing doors" - a slightly pointless announcement I've always thought, given the auto-announcements, the platform announcements, and the fact that the driver usually closes the doors immediately after!

 

[Mike Machin]

I much preferred the days of REPs and TCs on my line where one could travel from Waterloo to Bournemouth without a single word of announcements, other than perhaps the hearing the muffled voice of the station announcer at Southmpton Central.

 

[43066]

GWR were pumping out these incredibly annoying announcements at stations like Slough and Swindon telling people to “use the handrail” whilst using stairs which was incredibly loud and obnoxious and kept playing as someone else joined the stairway so must have been motion triggered.

London Bridge plays a similar announcement on the escalators to the platforms. Presumably because they’re unusually high, but it is rather irritating.

I agree. The key information on next stations etc is very important, but does anyone in the rail industry seriously think that passengers want to hear safety notices, 61016 announcements etc on every journey? If so, they need to get out into the real world.

The safety announcement is in case there are first time travellers aboard (would anyone criticise airlines for making safety demonstrations on each and every flight), and the 61016 “see it, say it, sort it” announcement is AIUI mandated by the DfT.

The screens on Northern's trains announce this, but oddly and annoyingly the PA does not and, as you say, it is a key piece of information for visually impaired passengers. Given the announcements replicate most of the rest of the on-screen informatio it is a rather odd omission.

Yet on this thread people are moaning about too many announcements, and you are suggesting another one be added. Perfectly demonstrating how it’s impossible to satisfy everyone.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

The worst one is "Thank you for travelling with......." on a commuter service. As if we had a choice.

I do find it mildly amusing that, around these parts, the announcements have changed from "Thank you for travelling with West Midlands Railway" to "Thank you for travelling with us" ... presumably because of the constant shuffling of rolling stock, who knows who will be operating the train next week?

I much preferred the days of REPs and TCs on my line where one could travel from Waterloo to Bournemouth without a single word of announcements, other than perhaps the hearing the muffled voice of the station announcer at Southmpton Central.

Indeed, and around here, the halcyon days of the class 323 and it's PA system rendering any announcement so quiet and muffled as to be pointless anyway.

 

[BB1]

The question of effectiveness of safety (and similar) announcements is interesting. I've often wondered whether some kind of trial could be done, maybe with something a bit less safety-critical like the "Please remember to take all luggage and personal belongings with you when leaving the train" one, where a TOC would randomize half their services to have the announcement and the other to not have it, and then look for any significant difference in the number of left/lost items between the two groups.

I know unattended luggage can cause security concerns, so a potential increase might not be entirely harmless - but then we don't know there definitely would be an increase, and I would guess the majority of forgotten items are small and obviously harmless things like stray gloves, children's toys, etc. Would something like this be at all feasible (if there was the will to do it, which maybe there isn't)?

 

[setdown]

Ha, I'm glad I'm not the only one that struggles with this. The announcements on SWR are crazy. On a journey from Southampton to London yesterday, after every stop:

1- Automated 'Welcome aboard service to X calling at A, B, C etc.'
2- Manual announcement a few seconds later repeating all the information that was literally just announced. Why?
3- Automated 'see it say it sorted' announcement
4- Automated 'hold a valid ticket or you will be prosecuted' announcement

I don't get how someone thinks that's ok after each stop. The end result is, for my next journey, I'll end up putting my headphones on and drowning out everything. If there is a genuine, urgent safety message, I will miss it. If you're going to do (2), then don't play (1), or vice-versa.

It's interesting as London Northwestern run very similar trains, and tend to only do the automated announcements, and it's nowhere near annoying. If there's a manual one, I know to 'listen-up' as it's probably quite important.

 

[CarrotPie]

I much preferred the days of REPs and TCs on my line where one could travel from Waterloo to Bournemouth without a single word of announcements, other than perhaps the hearing the muffled voice of the station announcer at Southmpton Central.

As do, I'm sure, everyone who didn't know the exact order of station and where theirs was! Station announcements are there for a very good reason!

[disengage sarcasm]

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's interesting as London Northwestern run very similar trains, and tend to only do the automated announcements, and it's nowhere near annoying. If there's a manual one, I know to 'listen-up' as it's probably quite important.

I find many Bletchley guards like waffling over the top of the autoannouncer, which is particularly unhelpful.

 

[CarrotPie]

It's interesting as London Northwestern run very similar trains, and tend to only do the automated announcements, and it's nowhere near annoying. If there's a manual one, I know to 'listen-up' as it's probably quite important.

At least the Electrostars have a different bing-bong to the auto-announcer to tell you if there's a manual announcement, so you can take youe headphones off and listen up!

 

[Skiddaw]

The one that always drove me demented when I used to travel on GWR trains regularly was the automated: 'We wish you a safe and pleasant onward journey'. I always expected it to say 'We wish you a Merry Christmas' especially when it was that time of year

 

[ainsworth74]

I must confess once I did some risk assessment training a lot more about how the railway does things suddenly made a lot more more sense. Most of the "safety" announcements absolutely fall into this category. Take the "due to today's inclement weather surfaces may be slippery" announcement. That's absolutely the result of a risk assessment where to reduce the risk of people falling from the platform edge in wet weather, for the purposes of the assessment, someone has put a control measure as "audible warnings" which has allowed the risk to be reduced.

This, of course, has had no impact whatsoever on the actual risk of someone falling from a platform edge. But it has reduced the theoretical risk of it happening and it means that if someone does fall from a platform edge in wet weather and sues the relevant company they can point to their risk assessment with it's control measure to show at the very least a reduced level of culpability. Of course in the real world the actual impact of telling people every five minutes that surfaces may be slippery is pretty much nil. But that's not what it's about.

I'm not quite sure what the solution to this is. I'm not one for "'elf 'n safety gone mad!" but I do think that this is an aspect which has gone slightly bonkers. I see it at my work (office based) where we risk assess various issues and then put control measures in place that miraculously reduce the risk. The actual risk of the issue occurring is minimal and the impact of the control measures is minimal but it means that the theoretical risk is now low enough to pass muster and if the issue did occur we can wave our risk assessment in court to prove that we weren't negligent.

It's a lot of paperwork for very little benefit other than keeping the wheels bureaucracy turning!

As a driver having to continually suffer these tedious inane announcements I spend much of my time shouting “shut the f#ck up” as they play.

Aha! Now we find the real reason why you don't want audio recording in the cab!

 

[londonbridge]

I once came out of work at Kingston, next train was on time but the previous one had been delayed and was due in a couple of minutes after I came onto the platform, when it arrived I boarded it having managed to miss the announcement that it would now run fast to Waterloo and passengers for intermediate stations (including me as I wanted Clapham) should wait for the one on time behind it.

 

[TUC]

London Bridge plays a similar announcement on the escalators to the platforms. Presumably because they’re unusually high, but it is rather irritating.



The safety announcement is in case there are first time travellers aboard (would anyone criticise airlines for making safety demonstrations on each and every flight), and the 61016 “see it, say it, sort it” announcement is AIUI mandated by the DfT.



Yet on this thread people are moaning about too many announcements, and you are suggesting another one be added. Perfectly demonstrating how it’s impossible to satisfy everyone.

Further up I've agreed there are too many announcement, and they get in the way of the key ones that passengers want to hear. Adding which side the doors will open on is far more useful than being told for the hundredth time to keep an eye on your belongings.

 

[43066]

I'm not quite sure what the solution to this is. I'm not one for "'elf 'n safety gone mad!" but I do think that this is an aspect which has gone slightly bonkers.

In the UK we take a more risk averse approach towards these matters than many other countries, and the railway is no different in that respect. Whether we should adopt that stance is ultimately a value judgement, but a clear benefit of our approach is that we do live in an extremely “safe” country in global terms, as you realise when you travel to even equivalent European countries such as France (and there are plenty of stats to back this up).

Further up I've agreed there are too many announcement, and they get in the way of the key ones that passengers want to hear. Adding which side the doors will open on is far more useful than being told for the hundredth time to keep an eye on your belongings.

It would only be more useful for a tiny stratum of the population. For the rest it would simply add to the background noise being complained about.

 

[NeilCr]

Maybe it's just me but I find the announcements on the SouthEastern trains I use just fine

I quite often get a starting from here (Ramsgate) train - the automatic announcement comes on once the driver 'starts it up" and the guard usually repeats it.

After that - you get the next station is and this train is for at each station. It's usually a four car train so no need for the short platform call at Sturry etc. Sometimes the guard talks a bit more but it's usually good humoured

I, actually, don't mind the 61016 ones but - as I say that - could be me

 

[nlogax]

I'm usually travelling while wearing noise-cancelling earbuds partly to *avoid* the glut of announcements. Haven't been caught out yet as I have adequate awareness of what's going on and I also read whatever updates are available on the passenger displays. One of these days though I'm going to unexpectedly arrive into X or Y and find myself in a heap of trouble - and it'll be entirely my own fault.