South Wales 'Metro' updates

[H&I]

It's conspicuous that Robert Schwadl still hasn't added Cardiff to his excellent urbanrail.net website: https://www.urbanrail.net/eu/euromet.htm

I wonder if it falls short of his standards for inclusion as a "metro" system on service frequency or electrification? He normally includes planned / under construction systems from fairly early on, and includes a lot of urban commuter rail systems too.

I suspect the current frequencies are not high enough to warrant featuring on urbanrail.net yet.

 

[MikePJ]

So what do these very long timescales mean for the introduction of the 756s on the Rhymney line? Also 2026 is several years late rather than the original several months delay announcement.

The timetable change this coming June will reshape the Rhymney line timetable, with Coryton trains serving Penarth, and a new Penarth-Caerphilly shuttle. TfW explicitly said when this was announced that the plan was to run these services with existing stock. However, once the wires go live from November 2024, I would expect to see those services transition to 756s - possibly in dribs and drabs as drivers get trained up, much as we saw the 231s introduced on a few diagrams to begin with and then gradually scaling up.

Charging for the Caerphilly shuttle units?

Yes, exactly. It just amused me to see a three platform station with just the bay platform wired - and the wires not continuing to the main line. I recall some discussion of whether similar short sections of wiring would ever be provided at terminal stations on the Greater Anglia network on the basis that their 755s could avoid running their engines during turnarounds, but of course that wasn't worth the investment.

 

[Hwnt52]

Yes, it’s a great reference for those of us following the project closely.

I’m slightly surprised that the wires don’t start again immediately north of Caerphilly tunnel and that the line through Caerphilly will remain unwired.

I guess the reason as usual is money. There is a low bridge at the west (Rhymney) end of the station which would be expensive to deal with, so the wires will start immediately beyond the bridge.

 

[Last Hurrah]

Also 2026 is several years late rather than the original several months delay announcement.

Well maybe an 18 month overrun . . .

I seem to recall the project had to be delivered by Dec ‘24 as a condition for the EU funding element to be made

Covid along with unforeseen issues were encountered which have delayed delivery of the project - in order to avoid the risk of losing the EU funding, the EU funded “bits” were re prioritised to ensure they were completed before the Dec’ 24 deadline

 

[AdamWW]

Yeah, the fact that wiring is provided to the bay platform only is certainly novel!

And with a little gap under the footbridge.

Charging for the Caerphilly shuttle units?

Makes sense.

Presumably pantographs would only go up when stationary, which might explain why there just seems to be a gap rather than a permanently earthed section under the footbridge.

 

[59CosG95]

And with a little gap under the footbridge.



Makes sense.

Presumably pantographs would only go up when stationary, which might explain why there just seems to be a gap rather than a permanently earthed section under the footbridge.

The map in Appendix A seems to suggest that it'll be a Fixed Overhead Conductor Bar at Caerphilly; ditto with the stabling at Treherbert & Rhymney.

 

[The exile]

Yes, exactly. It just amused me to see a three platform station with just the bay platform wired - and the wires not continuing to the main line.

Unless you mean that the wires over the bay platform track are an electric island usable only for charging battery trains, it sounds similar to what pertained at Walsall (and Springburn?) for many years.

 

[MikePJ]

Unless you mean that the wires over the bay platform track are an electric island usable only for charging battery trains, it sounds similar to what pertained at Walsall (and Springburn?) for many years.

Yes, that's exactly what I mean - there's no way that a conventional electric train could make use of the overhead, as by the time it's gone 100 metres it's already dewired!

 

[Last Hurrah]

The timetable change this coming June will reshape the Rhymney line timetable, with Coryton trains serving Penarth, and a new Penarth-Caerphilly shuttle.

Does the City Line service revert to being a standalone service between Radyr & Central ?

save for the am/pm through trip for the school kids ?

 

[AdamWW]

Does the City Line service revert to being a standalone service between Radyr & Central ?

save for the am/pm through trip for the school kids ?

The last I heard, the eventual plan was for 2 trains per hour each way from the Valleys through Radyr to loop through Cardiff via the City Line. And Coryton services will be going to Penarth
(I think though it's been suggested that in the first instance the City Line will be served by trains from the Valleys but terminating at Central which seems something of a downgrade).
I doubt there that a through service even at school times will be maintained given that ultimately the two lines will be using different stock.
Given that both will still be at a half hour frequency let's hope they've thought of that and provided short connection times.

While it is somewhat arbitrary that currently the City and Coryton lines are combined, as they are the two lines in the local area with the least frequent service it does guarantee good "connections" between them.

 

[MikePJ]

Yet another consultation has gone live - please see attached. This one relates to changing junction speeds at Queen Street as part of the changes in the pointwork required to double the Cardiff Bay line.

The Cardiff Bay Line is currently a single line from Queen Street South Junction to
the buffer stops at Cardiff Bay Station. It is proposed to double the line and install
two crossovers to enable the line to be partially bi-directional and at the same time
introduce track circuit block and use Tram Signals. During a 100-hour possession in
March 2024 Balfour Beatty Rail will be renewing the S&C at Queen Street Junction,
specifically 9454 points.

The current arrangement looks like this (diagrams grabbed from the consultation document):



The new arrangement loooks like this (changes highlighted in red):



The line marked as "3" is the stub end of the new "down" line to Cardiff Bay, but which will be blocked to trains (hence the points marked "2" being padlocked) whilst construction progresses.

 

[Envoy]

The ITV Wales programme ‘Sharp End’ had a feature about The Metro last night. https://www.itv.com/walesprogrammes/articles/sharp-end-january-29th-2024

 

[Jez]

The ITV Wales programme ‘Sharp End’ had a feature about The Metro last night. https://www.itv.com/walesprogrammes/articles/sharp-end-january-29th-2024

I saw some of this on ITV Wales last night. Interesting it was said that 95% of services will be on new trains this time next year. They must be confident that the change over will happen problem free.

 

[Zoomer]

The ITV Wales programme ‘Sharp End’ had a feature about The Metro last night. https://www.itv.com/walesprogrammes/articles/sharp-end-january-29th-2024

Nice to get a bit of insight into how they're progressing. So the increase in frequency won't happen until the middle of 2025. A bit further away than I was expecting, but it was good to hear mention of it.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I saw some of this on ITV Wales last night. Interesting it was said that 95% of services will be on new trains this time next year. They must be confident that the change over will happen problem free.

I presumed that 95% of all services (passengers ?) experiencing new trains by February 2025 referred to the whole of Wales ?.

Now I can see 197s all being in service by then and 756s probably are not going to have unexpected problems. But not sure many 398s will be in service by then ?.

Occurs to me however that those passengers expecting 398s will have 756s soon (so within a year) - even if they are then temporarily replaced by 150s before the 398s finally appear. So probably do-able in a roundabout technicality way.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Note that only around half the 398s need to be in operation to run the existing frequency on the TAM lines, so the roll out of those could easily run well into 2025 and not affect that target.

 

[AdamWW]

Note that only around half the 398s need to be in operation to run the existing frequency on the TAM lines, so the roll out of those could easily run well into 2025 and not affect that target.

Would that provide the same capacity as at present, given that I think a 2 car 398 is somewhat shorter than a 150?

My understanding was that the doubling in frequency doesn't correspond to a doubling in capacity.

 

[Brissle Girl]

Would that provide the same capacity as at present, given that I think a 2 car 398 is somewhat shorter than a 150?

My understanding was that the doubling in frequency doesn't correspond to a doubling in capacity.

That’s a fair point. AIUI, the plan for the final service is to alternate between single and double trams, so in each hour 6 units would be deployed.

I’m not familiar with the current provision, particularly in the rush hour, but I’m guessing at least 4 of the 6 would be needed (so 2 doubled up units per hour) to provide adequate capacity.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

May someone please clarify the final frequency/service pattern

As I understood it:

2tph Merthyr Cardiff Central via Cathays
2tph Merthyr Cardiff Bay
2tph Treherbert Cardiff Central via Cathays
2tph Treherbert Cardiff Bay
2tph Aberdare Cardiff Central via Fairwater
2tph Aberdare Cardiff Bay

2tph Coryton Penarth
2tph Caerphilly Penarth
2tph Rhymney Barry Island
2tph Bargoed Bridgend via Llantwit Major

is that right?

 

[anthony263]

May someone please clarify the final frequency/service pattern

As I understood it:

2tph Merthyr Cardiff Central via Cathays
2tph Merthyr Cardiff Bay
2tph Treherbert Cardiff Central via Cathays
2tph Treherbert Cardiff Bay
2tph Aberdare Cardiff Central via Fairwater
2tph Aberdare Cardiff Bay

2tph Coryton Penarth
2tph Caerphilly Penarth
2tph Rhymney Barry Island
2tph Bargoed Bridgend via Llantwit Major

is that right?

Pretty much yes

 

[Brissle Girl]

I thought Rhymney gets 4tph under the final timetable.

 

[Jez]

I presumed that 95% of all services (passengers ?) experiencing new trains by February 2025 referred to the whole of Wales ?.

Yes i presumed that as well. But for that to happen a significant amount of Valley Lines is going to need to be on new trains.

 

[positron]

May someone please clarify the final frequency/service pattern

As I understood it:

2tph Merthyr Cardiff Central via Cathays
2tph Merthyr Cardiff Bay
2tph Treherbert Cardiff Central via Cathays
2tph Treherbert Cardiff Bay
2tph Aberdare Cardiff Central via Fairwater
2tph Aberdare Cardiff Bay

2tph Coryton Penarth
2tph Caerphilly Penarth
2tph Rhymney Barry Island
2tph Bargoed Bridgend via Llantwit Major

is that right?

It's 4tph from Rhymney to Cardiff Central the exact pattern from Cardiff to the vale is unclear but there will be 3 to Barry and 2 to Bridgend

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

It's 4tph from Rhymney to Cardiff Central the exact pattern from Cardiff to the vale is unclear but there will be 3 to Barry and 2 to Bridgend

That’s interesting, as I understood it Barry Island was to take a sacrifice of 3tph to 2tph to allow for 2tph via Rhoose.

 

[50031]

Wasn't there an article on here that mentioned the possibility of extra services terminating at Pontypridd in additon to the 3 Valleys?

 

[AdamWW]

Wasn't there an article on here that mentioned the possibility of extra services terminating at Pontypridd in additon to the 3 Valleys?

I'd have thought 12 tph would be plenty.

 

[Envoy]

They really need that half hourly service on the Vale Coast Line as public transport to Rhoose for the airport is really dire. The through bus service to Cardiff City Centre via a long winded route takes 1 hour 20 minutes. The train plus 2 mile bus shuttle from Rhoose station takes around 40 minutes. You also get the benefit of the train providing a fast link to Bridgend for services to/from west Wales - which also provides a quick link between Barry & the west avoiding backtracking to Cardiff.

The real weak spot in the proposed Metro will be the City Line in west Cardiff with only a half hourly service. I wonder if they could join say a train going to Penarth with one heading to Barry between Queen Street & Grangetown in order to free up capacity to allow 4 trains per hour on the City Line?

 

[Dr Day]

May someone please clarify the final frequency/service pattern

As I understood it:

2tph Merthyr Cardiff Central via Cathays
2tph Merthyr Cardiff Bay
2tph Treherbert Cardiff Central via Cathays
2tph Treherbert Cardiff Bay
2tph Aberdare Cardiff Central via Fairwater
2tph Aberdare Cardiff Bay

2tph Coryton Penarth
2tph Caerphilly Penarth
2tph Rhymney Barry Island
2tph Bargoed Bridgend via Llantwit Major

is that right?

So Llandaf/Cathays only get 4 tph direct to Cardiff Central rather than the 6 tph today? But do get additional journey opportunities changing at Queen St, and direct services to Cardiff Bay.

 

[Brissle Girl]

The real weak spot in the proposed Metro will be the City Line in west Cardiff with only a half hourly service. I wonder if they could join say a train going to Penarth with one heading to Barry between Queen Street & Grangetown in order to free up capacity to allow 4 trains per hour on the City Line?

I can’t imaging that happening. You are trying to shoehorn 18th in each direction through Queen St and you want to introduce joining and breaking sets there? That would be a huge performance risk.

Also, think of the confusion at Central with trains for both destinations, making sure people got in the correct portion.

 

[anthony263]

They really need that half hourly service on the Vale Coast Line as public transport to Rhoose for the airport is really dire. The through bus service to Cardiff City Centre via a long winded route takes 1 hour 20 minutes. The train plus 2 mile bus shuttle from Rhoose station takes around 40 minutes. You also get the benefit of the train providing a fast link to Bridgend for services to/from west Wales - which also provides a quick link between Barry & the west avoiding backtracking to Cardiff.

The real weak spot in the proposed Metro will be the City Line in west Cardiff with only a half hourly service. I wonder if they could join say a train going to Penarth with one heading to Barry between Queen Street & Grangetown in order to free up capacity to allow 4 trains per hour on the City Line?

Cardiff West Junction has been mentioned as the limitations on the cityline maybe if they do build the dive under and the circleline is completed you'll get at least an extra 2tph on the line