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RESOLVED: Didn’t tap my card in

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giblets

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So my ticket was not tapped in with Chiltern., the gates are normally open at Banbury when I pass through, and I know it doesn’t always register it ( as I’ve had occasional problems when the barriers are closed and don’t open), but it’s difficult to tell when you have headphones on! I have a flexi season ticket (8 tickets on a card that last a month as I travel only semi regularly ), I travel to a station that always has ticket barriers on so know my card is validated each day
My pass is checked almost daily as there is normally a member of staff who checks them and never had problems before (using the line for 2 years) but had a full on inspector, who took my details. Didn’t really ask any questions. Just said I would get a letter. Anything thoughts?!
 
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VT118

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I use the same 8 ticket flexi pass and also travel from the same station. I have had recent history with fare evasion so I have to be extra careful in future

There is a smartphone app called "National Rail Smartcard Manager"

If you use this, you can press your flexi card against it and it will confirm that your pass is indeed active. I wasn't aware of this app for a while, and I realised that sometimes I was using the card to open the barriers, but it wasn't registering as active, so it could have caught me out

I now make extra care every time I travel to use the app and ensure the pass is active.

As for getting a letter, you could be waiting a while. Maybe as long as 6 months. They are likely to look at your entire history and flag up any other suspicious occasions. There are others on here that can guide you through the response.
 

kkong

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You can also use the ecebs Smart Ticket Checker app.

It will show if there is a "transient ticket" active on your smartcard from your origin station.

If there isn't one, it means you've not successfully registered the start of your journey at the origin station.

Edit: Perhaps also remove your headphones! It surprises me how many people walk around with headphones on, oblivious to their surroundings (a personal safety risk, in my view).
 

giblets

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Moderator Note - original thread re-opened and content merged to keep everything in one place.

So I posted a while back about failing to tap my travel card card in my rail journey (the thread is now closed, so opening a new thread).
Today I received my letter from Chiltern Railways, charging me with being unable to show a valid ticket on the date in question, and being in a compulsory ticket area without a valid ticket.
They are claiming the total of the fare avoided and £175.00 prosecution costs (and up to £1000 fine).

I have three plea options:
"single justice procedure"
"plead guilty in court"
"Plead Not Guilty"

I have also been offered to attend an interview with a senior investigator for the railways, as they are allowed to disposed of this matter administratively.

My understanding is the first two options would result in a criminal record? But if I attend they may just ask me to pay a fine to them?

Can anyone please advise?
many thanks
 
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Titfield

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I think you may be misunderstanding this a little..

The SJPN is the case being heard by a magistrate "on the papers" (which means on the evidence submitted) without you being present and on the basis that you have pleaded guilty. It is designed to speed up the delivery of justice as you are not required to be present. You will be fined and receive a criminal record. You will also have to pay the railway company their fare and the costs they have claimed.

If you decide to plead not guilty to the SJPN then the matter has to go to court with you present. You will then be found guilty or not guilty. Obviously if you are found not guilty the matter is concluded. If you are found guilty then you will be fined and receive a criminal record and as above pay the railway company their fare and the costs they have claimed.

If you go to court and plead guilty you will be fined and receive a criminal record and as before have to pay the railway company their fare and the costs they have claimed.. There is no point in going to court and pleading guilty when you could have pleaded guilty to the SJPN.

If you attend the interview with the railway then they may agree to offering you to settle by means of an out of court settlement (an administrative disposal). This means you pay them a sum of money (the costs they are claiming and the fare). It is not a fine and there is no criminal record as a result of agreeing to this. They do not have to offer you an out of court settlement. They may decide because of what you say (for example because you have done it before or treat the matter as a joke) that the matter should still go to court.

There are examples where people have been offered an interview but have concluded the matter by a well written email and then paid the fare and costs claimed as agreed. Obviously an interview costs the railway company time and effort so if they can achieve a resolution by email it saves them time and effort.

It is in your interests to agree an out of court settlement rather than pleading guilty to the sjpn or going to court because (a) it is less expensive to you - there is no fine (b) you do not get a criminal record which whilst is not life changing can be somewhat troublesome and can impact careers if you work in the legal, financial or healthcare sectors.
 

giblets

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I think you may be misunderstanding this a little..

The SJPN is the case being heard by a magistrate "on the papers" (which means on the evidence submitted) without you being present and on the basis that you have pleaded guilty. It is designed to speed up the delivery of justice as you are not required to be present. You will be fined and receive a criminal record. You will also have to pay the railway company their fare and the costs they have claimed.

If you decide to plead not guilty to the SJPN then the matter has to go to court with you present. You will then be found guilty or not guilty. Obviously if you are found not guilty the matter is concluded. If you are found guilty then you will be fined and receive a criminal record and as above pay the railway company their fare and the costs they have claimed.

If you go to court and plead guilty you will be fined and receive a criminal record and as before have to pay the railway company their fare and the costs they have claimed.. There is no point in going to court and pleading guilty when you could have pleaded guilty to the SJPN.

If you attend the interview with the railway then they may agree to offering you to settle by means of an out of court settlement (an administrative disposal). This means you pay them a sum of money (the costs they are claiming and the fare). It is not a fine and there is no criminal record as a result of agreeing to this. They do not have to offer you an out of court settlement. They may decide because of what you say (for example because you have done it before or treat the matter as a joke) that the matter should still go to court.

There are examples where people have been offered an interview but have concluded the matter by a well written email and then paid the fare and costs claimed as agreed. Obviously an interview costs the railway company time and effort so if they can achieve a resolution by email it saves them time and effort.

It is in your interests to agree an out of court settlement rather than pleading guilty to the sjpn or going to court because (a) it is less expensive to you - there is no fine (b) you do not get a criminal record which whilst is not life changing can be somewhat troublesome and can impact careers if you work in the legal, financial or healthcare sectors.

Many thanks, clearly going down the administrative route would be beneficial to myself for all the points raised.

In terms of my past use, I've clearly not tapped in my card before travel on multiple occasions (but it is tapped in the other end), what I've been confused at is that almost every day a member of the Chiltern staff checked my ticket and as I result I (incorrectly) assumed what I was doing was ok. My flexi ticket has been 'used up' (i.e all 8 tickets have been validated) for tens of times, and I also have multiple physical tickets from times when I knew I would not be able to use my 8 tickets in a month), which I hope would be able to show good intentions?

Would a e-mail along the lines of this be seen as a good move? Accepting my mistake and looking to move on, or would it just inflame the situation?
 

Hadders

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We could really do with seeing the all the documentation CHiltern has sent you. Can you upload it to this thread but do redact any personal details or case reference numbers.

We can then assist in how to reply.
 

Haywain

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In terms of my past use, I've clearly not tapped in my card before travel on multiple occasions (but it is tapped in the other end), what I've been confused at is that almost every day a member of the Chiltern staff checked my ticket and as I result I (incorrectly) assumed what I was doing was ok. My flexi ticket has been 'used up' (i.e all 8 tickets have been validated) for tens of times, and I also have multiple physical tickets from times when I knew I would not be able to use my 8 tickets in a month), which I hope would be able to show good intentions?
This would suggest to me that a carefully worded letter, explaining your lack of understanding, may achieve the desired result. Going forward, if you are using a Flexi-season you must ensure that it is validated each day before you start travelling. That will mean removing your headphones so that you know what's happening at the ticket barrier, but you can acyivate the ticket before getting to the barrier as explained in posts above.
 

giblets

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This would suggest to me that a carefully worded letter, explaining your lack of understanding, may achieve the desired result. Going forward, if you are using a Flexi-season you must ensure that it is validated each day before you start travelling. That will mean removing your headphones so that you know what's happening at the ticket barrier, but you can acyivate the ticket before getting to the barrier as explained in posts above.
Thanks, since the event I have religiously been tapping in correctly, so the TOC should see that improvement in behaviour!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

We could really do with seeing the all the documentation CHiltern has sent you. Can you upload it to this thread but do redact any personal details or case reference numbers.

We can then assist in how to reply.
Thanks, please see the attached letter, or do you need the other documents also?!
 

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Hadders

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Thanks for uploading.

Essentially Chiltern are giving you a choice:

1. Co-operate with them, tell them about other journeys where you haven't tapped in correctly and they will offer you an out of court settlement. You would have to pay them the cost of all the fares avoided at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the tickets you did purchase and pay them an admin cost to reflect the cost of Chiltern dealing with your case. In return Chiltern will withdraw court proceedings.

2. Let the matter proceed to court where Chiltern would prosecute you for the single case where you were caught. You would almost certainly be found guilty and would have to pay a fine based on your income, a surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine, compensation for the fare avoided and a contribution towards Chiltern's court costs. If you choose this route you would have a criminal conviction which could cause some difficulties in other areas of life (although convictions under the Railway Byelaws don't normally show on Standard DBS checks).

Assuming you choose to co-operate Chiltern have said they want to interview you to establish the number of times you've travelled with an invalid ticket. You might be able to avoid the interview if you write a suitably worded letter where you tell them how many times this has happened. I don't know if this is something you'd be able to research but if you post a draft copy of your reply in this thread forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.
 

giblets

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Thanks for uploading.

Essentially Chiltern are giving you a choice:

1. Co-operate with them, tell them about other journeys where you haven't tapped in correctly and they will offer you an out of court settlement. You would have to pay them the cost of all the fares avoided at the full Anytime rate with no credit given for the tickets you did purchase and pay them an admin cost to reflect the cost of Chiltern dealing with your case. In return Chiltern will withdraw court proceedings.

2. Let the matter proceed to court where Chiltern would prosecute you for the single case where you were caught. You would almost certainly be found guilty and would have to pay a fine based on your income, a surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine, compensation for the fare avoided and a contribution towards Chiltern's court costs. If you choose this route you would have a criminal conviction which could cause some difficulties in other areas of life (although convictions under the Railway Byelaws don't normally show on Standard DBS checks).

Assuming you choose to co-operate Chiltern have said they want to interview you to establish the number of times you've travelled with an invalid ticket. You might be able to avoid the interview if you write a suitably worded letter where you tell them how many times this has happened. I don't know if this is something you'd be able to research but if you post a draft copy of your reply in this thread forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.
Many thanks, afraid I really would be unable to calculate the number of times this has happened. Although I used the train relatively regularly I am often working from home, travelling etc. I have written a draft e-mail, but difficult to know how much detail to cover.

Dear Sir/ Madam,
I am writing to you with refence to the above case (XXXX), and would welcome the opportunity to discuss the matter further, and avoid potential prosecution.

Clearly I have made mistakes in my understanding of how I should be correctly using my flexi ticket (you will have seen I have since corrected this), I'm very apologetic for this, and feel stupid for not understanding the situation earlier and indeed the frustration and additional problems this has caused you.

I appreciate that there may be additional payments required for Chiltern railways for missed fares, along with your administrative costs and hope this matter can be settled amicably.

In terms of my behaviour, and helping your investigation I should advise you on my travel behaviour:

  • I now normally travel on my route Tue/ Wed/ Thu
    • This is not 100% of the time, however, I often travel with work for a week or so, or have calls at unsociable hours/ child care commitments meaning I would work from home, if I know I will not be in for extended periods (due to travel/ holidays etc) I will normally purchase physical train tickets instead.
  • I will normally take the train from XXX to XXX, depending on the terminus where I would tap in.
.

In mitigation of my transgressions:
  • On my route, the train guard joins at XXXX (my station), and will pass through the carriage checking all travelers tickets and rail cards, including flexi-cards checked with an app on their phone. This happens 90% of the days, and unbelievably, it was never pointed out to me that there was an issue with my flexi-card. Had it been pointed out I would have changed my behaviour immediately. Whilst this in no way excuses my behaviour I hope you can understand why I was unaware of the issue.
  • I purchased my flexi-card and as a matter of course tapped in at the terminus station, thus paying for a full return journey for the day.
  • Although my work pattern is relatively flexible I used my full flexi card fully 99% the time, if I knew I would not need the full 8 cards (i.e if travelling or round Christmas, holidays or extensive travel) I would purchase physical rail tickets,
 

Haywain

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This happens 90% of the days, and unbelievably, it was never pointed out to me that there was an issue with my flexi-card.
I would suggest changing that to unfortunately, so it sounds rather less like trying to shift the blame.
 

giblets

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Thanks for your insight, anything else I should add?! In terms of ‘attending’ its bother easier and hard at the moment, I’m off on long term sick due to quite a major operation in May, so I have free days but travelling is… uncomfortable.
 

Haywain

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Thanks for your insight, anything else I should add?! In terms of ‘attending’ its bother easier and hard at the moment, I’m off on long term sick due to quite a major operation in May, so I have free days but travelling is… uncomfortable.
It aeems to be the case that Chiltern ask that but often don't insist on it, so try not to worry about it for now.
 

Fawkes Cat

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Thanks for your insight, anything else I should add?! In terms of ‘attending’ its bother easier and hard at the moment, I’m off on long term sick due to quite a major operation in May, so I have free days but travelling is… uncomfortable.
Although we generally advise against 'special pleading' (the circumstances that someone wants to rely on rarely turn out to be all that special) I think that being unable to travel due to your health is something worth mentioning. Obviously you will want to maintain your privacy, but if you have evidence (e.g. a letter/email/etc. from your doctor/surgeon/rehab person confirming that travel will be uncomfortable or is not advised) that you will be able to release if the railway ask then it is worth mentioning that you can supply this evidence if required: if the railway do ask for the proof then send it then!
 

giblets

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Update: Many thanks for your help on this, I sent the message off and received a reply the next day (including a nice comment about my recovery). Thankfully they were understanding with my predicament/ stupidity, and gave me a sharp wrap on the knuckles on this occasion (as well as an 'administrative disposal' far less intimidating than I was expecting). I certainly be be ensuring I tap in correctly in future (I have also discovered you can review the pass with the companies own app).
Hopefully I will be back in work and on the train come August
 

Fawkes Cat

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Update: Many thanks for your help on this, I sent the message off and received a reply the next day (including a nice comment about my recovery). Thankfully they were understanding with my predicament/ stupidity, and gave me a sharp wrap on the knuckles on this occasion (as well as an 'administrative disposal' far less intimidating than I was expecting). I certainly be be ensuring I tap in correctly in future (I have also discovered you can review the pass with the companies own app).
Hopefully I will be back in work and on the train come August
Thanks for letting us know. As the railway also said, hopefully you make a full recovery sooner rather than later!
 
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