Transport for Wales Class 230

[Peter Mugridge]

Also how many class 230s still operate on the Bidston line? I've travelled on 230006, 230008, 230009, 230010. Wondering how many more there is for me to catch!

The only TfW one you are missing is 230 007.

 

[L401CJF]

Really hoping one day the 230s become a good fleet, they're perfect for quite a few lines on the TfW network. I really hope that GWR comes out with their fast recharging unit with a gem and can hopefully bring some life to the 230s as I personally find them really comfortable and nice to ride, even if the doors are a little slow to open and close.

Also how many class 230s still operate on the Bidston line? I've travelled on 230006, 230008, 230009, 230010. Wondering how many more there is for me to catch!

And any idea what happened to the ones that aren't running, I am aware of their reliability problems but what specifically would be good to know.

I dont believe 230006 has been out in service at all yet has it? It has been a long term knacker with parts nicked, although a few weeks ago when i passed North depot it had moved onto the wash road. 007 008 009 010 are the serviceable ones.

I believe one of the main problems is just poor design in that the batteries are enclosed in sealed steel cases with no vents or form of temperature control. Very easy for them to overheat in the summer and then get cold in the winter. Well known that batteries don't like the cold. There was also mention that they were being over charged which they don't appreciate, gets them hotter, and then it shuts them off as a safety precaution.

That’s really great to hear !!
Would love to see the fleet become fully useable

I know the issues with them a few weeks ago was because 2 suffered wheel damage (think hot axle box was mentioned too?) on the same day and they needed to look into the cause - just like when the 507/8 fleet had wheel bearing issues last year and they had to pull half the fleet for inspection and repair. Presumably nothing major was found as they were using 230s again a day or 2 later.

I know due to the 230s light weight design and high power output they like to wheelslip a lot when it's damp outside or with other railhead contamination such as leaves - which of course can damage wheelsets.

I've not worked the line in months (and even then I only ever seemed to get 150 jobs) compared to the amount of 230 work I covered when they first came out - so I'm not exactly up to speed with their reliability as I've been away from them!

There was a rumour flying around (messroom gossip- take with a pinch of salt) that they are hoping to get more 230s out in the near future to free up 197s for mainline. I know the midday swap that was brought in due to the summer pollen issues apparently doesn't really need to happen now but they're keeping it in as a precaution for the time being.

It has been known on the old timetable for the swop not to go ahead as booked anyway and for the same unit to continue the full day.

Like I said, today was my first 230 working in a long time and it was faultless. If they can convince them to work like that all the time, then they would be a welcome addition.

 

[sansyy]

I dont believe 230006 has been out in service at all yet has it? It has been a long term knacker with parts nicked, although a few weeks ago when i passed North depot it had moved onto the wash road. 007 008 009 010 are the serviceable ones.

I believe one of the main problems is just poor design in that the batteries are enclosed in sealed steel cases with no vents or form of temperature control. Very easy for them to overheat in the summer and then get cold in the winter. Well known that batteries don't like the cold. There was also mention that they were being over charged which they don't appreciate, gets them hotter, and then it shuts them off as a safety precaution.


I know the issues with them a few weeks ago was because 2 suffered wheel damage (think hot axle box was mentioned too?) on the same day and they needed to look into the cause - just like when the 507/8 fleet had wheel bearing issues last year and they had to pull half the fleet for inspection and repair. Presumably nothing major was found as they were using 230s again a day or 2 later.

I know due to the 230s light weight design and high power output they like to wheelslip a lot when it's damp outside or with other railhead contamination such as leaves - which of course can damage wheelsets.

I've not worked the line in months (and even then I only ever seemed to get 150 jobs) compared to the amount of 230 work I covered when they first came out - so I'm not exactly up to speed with their reliability as I've been away from them!

There was a rumour flying around (messroom gossip- take with a pinch of salt) that they are hoping to get more 230s out in the near future to free up 197s for mainline. I know the midday swap that was brought in due to the summer pollen issues apparently doesn't really need to happen now but they're keeping it in as a precaution for the time being.

It has been known on the old timetable for the swop not to go ahead as booked anyway and for the same unit to continue the full day.

Like I said, today was my first 230 working in a long time and it was faultless. If they can convince them to work like that all the time, then they would be a welcome addition.

Must’ve not been 006 I’ve been on then my mistake! I haven’t seen 009 and 008 in quite a while only 007 and 010 on the line so hoping they’ll come back soon

I dont believe 230006 has been out in service at all yet has it? It has been a long term knacker with parts nicked, although a few weeks ago when i passed North depot it had moved onto the wash road. 007 008 009 010 are the serviceable ones.

I believe one of the main problems is just poor design in that the batteries are enclosed in sealed steel cases with no vents or form of temperature control. Very easy for them to overheat in the summer and then get cold in the winter. Well known that batteries don't like the cold. There was also mention that they were being over charged which they don't appreciate, gets them hotter, and then it shuts them off as a safety precaution.


I know the issues with them a few weeks ago was because 2 suffered wheel damage (think hot axle box was mentioned too?) on the same day and they needed to look into the cause - just like when the 507/8 fleet had wheel bearing issues last year and they had to pull half the fleet for inspection and repair. Presumably nothing major was found as they were using 230s again a day or 2 later.

I know due to the 230s light weight design and high power output they like to wheelslip a lot when it's damp outside or with other railhead contamination such as leaves - which of course can damage wheelsets.

I've not worked the line in months (and even then I only ever seemed to get 150 jobs) compared to the amount of 230 work I covered when they first came out - so I'm not exactly up to speed with their reliability as I've been away from them!

There was a rumour flying around (messroom gossip- take with a pinch of salt) that they are hoping to get more 230s out in the near future to free up 197s for mainline. I know the midday swap that was brought in due to the summer pollen issues apparently doesn't really need to happen now but they're keeping it in as a precaution for the time being.

It has been known on the old timetable for the swop not to go ahead as booked anyway and for the same unit to continue the full day.

Like I said, today was my first 230 working in a long time and it was faultless. If they can convince them to work like that all the time, then they would be a welcome addition.

Problem for sure was that vivarail was no massive company with massive funding so unfortunately when things went wrong and bad decisions were made they had no room to adjust and try fix it in time before they collapsed as a company. I’m pretty sure GWR have addressed the overheating issue too so if TfW get the chance they should definitely refurbish the units as the sprinters on the Bidston line need to go. A very very bumpy and awkward ride for sure

 

[anthony263]

Must’ve not been 006 I’ve been on then my mistake! I haven’t seen 009 and 008 in quite a while only 007 and 010 on the line so hoping they’ll come back soon


Problem for sure was that vivarail was no massive company with massive funding so unfortunately when things went wrong and bad decisions were made they had no room to adjust and try fix it in time before they collapsed as a company. I’m pretty sure GWR have addressed the overheating issue too so if TfW get the chance they should definitely refurbish the units as the sprinters on the Bidston line need to go. A very very bumpy and awkward ride for sure

Think GWRs battery unit has a different design of batteries theres a good presentation about it on YouTube if you type Greenford battery train into the search option.

I know more 230s were being considered by TFW for the Swansea metro. The issue seems to be the storage and lack of ventilation of the batteries

 

[Bob Price]

I genuinely can't see TfW buying any more of these. They were only meant to be a stop gap. GWR may get theirs working as there are a few branches they could work on.

 

[CaergwrleKen]

Interesting to see people still trying to be positive about the 230 (i think it was a traincrew member saying no problems). Yes the service has settled down since the new timetable but the trains are very quiet and it’s going to take a long long time to regain the passengers trust to justify more trains, some who have had to change jobs might never come back.

More running time and turnaround time has made things more reliable and things are a bit higgly piggly with the times and some trains missing Central out but at the end of the day the 230s are still only doing a couple of trips a day and changing over to use 2 units to cover a diagram. It always seems to be the same 2 in service as well at the moment it’s 007 and 010 every day, there doesn’t seem to be one for training now maybe because they can’t run with the new times, someone said 008 and 009 had gone for wheel repairs but they haven’t been seen for ages and 006 is still anonymous. Not until we get a regular reliable all day 230s service will they pay their way, that will never happen it seems and the 197s will probably stay now unless the 150 or 153 come back.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I genuinely can't see TfW buying any more of these. They were only meant to be a stop gap. GWR may get theirs working as there are a few branches they could work on.

Have you any reason in assuming that GWR would oblige TfW in such a request?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I genuinely can't see TfW buying any more of these.

Definitely not. They can barely get working the ones they do have. Hideously unreliable trains.

 

[The exile]

Have you any reason in assuming that GWR would oblige TfW in such a request?

Think what was meant that GWR might get the GWR ones working!

 

[Dan G]

Interesting to see people still trying to be positive about the 230 (i think it was a traincrew member saying no problems). Yes the service has settled down since the new timetable but the trains are very quiet and it’s going to take a long long time to regain the passengers trust to justify more trains, some who have had to change jobs might never come back.

More running time and turnaround time has made things more reliable and things are a bit higgly piggly with the times and some trains missing Central out but at the end of the day the 230s are still only doing a couple of trips a day and changing over to use 2 units to cover a diagram. It always seems to be the same 2 in service as well at the moment it’s 007 and 010 every day, there doesn’t seem to be one for training now maybe because they can’t run with the new times, someone said 008 and 009 had gone for wheel repairs but they haven’t been seen for ages and 006 is still anonymous. Not until we get a regular reliable all day 230s service will they pay their way, that will never happen it seems and the 197s will probably stay now unless the 150 or 153 come back.

I was waiting for your little ray of sunshine!

 

[Bob Price]

Have you any reason in assuming that GWR would oblige TfW in such a request?

Why would they want anymore? Knowing they have a more or less complete fleet renewal, where would they run them? Not going to happen on the Valley lines and 197's will more or less rule the rest. Where would you put them?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I was waiting for your little ray of sunshine!

It's realism. The things are absolutely shot and knackered.

 

[sansyy]

Why would they want anymore? Knowing they have a more or less complete fleet renewal, where would they run them? Not going to happen on the Valley lines and 197's will more or less rule the rest. Where would you put them?

I still think they'd serve purpose on lines where a 197 is too overkill like the borderlands and/or the conwy valley line since they have low passenger numbers and will also free up 197s that are needed elsewhere. The 230s could be amazing trains once overheating is resolved and the wheels aren't so fragile. Though it seems by the time the borderlands line sees a renewed and refurbished class 230 talks with potential BMUs from merseyrail might be more realistic

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Though it seems by the time the borderlands line sees a renewed and refurbished class 230 talks with potential BMUs from merseyrail might be more realistic

Has this "renewed and refurbished" class 230 aspiration any planning in reality that TfW wants to spring on everyone on St David's Day.....or have you just awoke from a bad dream?

 

[sansyy]

Has this "renewed and refurbished" class 230 aspiration any planning in reality that TfW wants to spring on everyone on St David's Day.....or have you just awoke from a bad dream?

As long as GWR keeps up with their testing and experiments with the class 230 the possibilities are endless. Just like with the class 175 considering how tragic it was, it became a great train to use and commute with until the unfortunate fires pushing them out of service prematurely. Just hoping we don't have another case of that where they neglect proper maintenance of the 230s because we have the 197s now. Most of TfW's problems with their rolling stock are from their own ignorance that could've easily been resolved if they just listen to their peers!

 

[D365]

It's realism. The things are absolutely shot and knackered.

As has been said before, "shot and knackered" is not a description that can be levelled at the D78 Stock.

 

[anthony263]

As has been said before, "shot and knackered" is not a description that can be levelled at the D78 Stock.

They were the undergrounds most reliable rolling stock so much it was a extreme shock if one decided to sit down somewhere and as we saw on the tube tv series on sky a few faults could be sorted by hitting it

 

[sansyy]

Anyone know why they only run two 230s at a time? It's clear now that 007,008 and 010 are running fine but they still book two 197s and two 230s instead of three 230s. Not too sure why since they can do it, also any status on 009 haven't seen it in service in a while?

 

[Lurcheroo]

Anyone know why they only run two 230s at a time? It's clear now that 007,008 and 010 are running fine but they still book two 197s and two 230s instead of three 230s. Not too sure why since they can do it, also any status on 009 haven't seen it in service in a while?

Can’t say for sure but I think they probably a bit worried.
It would be nice to see them try to use 2x 230’s and 1x197.

 

[sansyy]

Can’t say for sure but I think they probably a bit worried.
It would be nice to see them try to use 2x 230’s and 1x197.

Currently they're using 2x230s (usually seems to be 007 and 010 but occasionally 008 pops up) and 2x197s which I'd like to see reallocated elsewhere on the line considering how important they are (currently got a 2-car 150 running from Swansea to Chester!)
Still not sure why they don't throw a 150 on the line instead of a 197, seems more appropriate or maybe even a 153 but the TOC knows best!

 

[anthony263]

Been posted on a few of the local railway groups on Facebook that whatever stadler and tfw have been.doing to the 230s of late seems to be having an effect and they do seem to behaving themselves

 

[sansyy]

Been posted on a few of the local railway groups on Facebook that whatever stadler and tfw have been.doing to the 230s of late seems to be having an effect and they do seem to behaving themselves

Glad to see this was worried another 175 would happen and maintenance would be neglected since vivarail went bust.

 

[craigybagel]

Presumably they need to hold a 230 back spare to rescue one of the others if it fails?

 

[sansyy]

That's probably why then, hoping to see 009 come into service again soon and we will be very close to a purely 230 service (depending on the fate of 006 if it ever comes into service)

 

[Dan G]

Currently they're using 2x230s (usually seems to be 007 and 010 but occasionally 008 pops up) and 2x197s which I'd like to see reallocated elsewhere on the line considering how important they are (currently got a 2-car 150 running from Swansea to Chester!)
Still not sure why they don't throw a 150 on the line instead of a 197, seems more appropriate or maybe even a 153 but the TOC knows best!

150s aren't fast enough to make the timetable, are they not? 197s and 230s are considerably faster (accelerating).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

150s aren't fast enough to make the timetable, are they not? 197s and 230s are considerably faster (accelerating).

Is it the case that the timetable is the problem and should be geared accordingly to the motive power in general service at this particular moment in time.

 

[Lurcheroo]

Currently they're using 2x230s (usually seems to be 007 and 010 but occasionally 008 pops up) and 2x197s which I'd like to see reallocated elsewhere on the line considering how important they are (currently got a 2-car 150 running from Swansea to Chester!)
Still not sure why they don't throw a 150 on the line instead of a 197, seems more appropriate or maybe even a 153 but the TOC knows best!

Yes, I’ve heard that they’d likely be ok to do a full shift now but I don’t think TFW have been willing to do it yet. Sorry, what I meant was 2 of the diagrams covered by the 230’s so if 009 was serviceable then you might need 4 to cover the 2 jobs as it stands.
I think the reason is that no 150’s or 153’s are being kept up north so it’s easier to get 197’s ready for the services now.

Is it the case that the timetable is the problem and should be geared accordingly to the motive power in general service at this particular moment in time.

I think the timetable is quite tight to make a round trip in a set amount of time so that it’s a reasonably consistent timetable across the day.
Having gone to a train every 45 minutes ish seems to have given it a bit of extra slack.

 

[CaergwrleKen]

150s kept to the old times without many problems, it will be even easier now with the longer running times even a 153 would probably be ok. And yes all get excited because the 230s are ‘doing well’ if you want, when they start actually working for a living then let’s see how it goes and also bear in mind how many millions of pounds they have cost during all this time to sit doing nothing.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

and also bear in mind how many millions of pounds they have cost during all this time to sit doing nothing.

A point conveniently ignored by the "enthusiast brigade".

 

[Lurcheroo]

And yes all get excited because the 230s are ‘doing well’ if you want, when they start actually working for a living then let’s see how it goes

and also bear in mind how many millions of pounds they have cost during all this time to sit doing nothing.

Well isn’t that the point, they’ve been so totally useless and a waste of money so far that if we actually start to see them in revenue earning service more regularly then it’s a good thing ?

In my opinion The biggest issue isn’t what they have cost in terms of their Maintenance or purchasing cost but what they have done to the lines passenger base. It may never totally recover.