Bradford Forster Square 4th Platform Funding Announced: what improvements would you like to see made?

[Ken H]

Just had a look at the images on Google Maps. Is it really a non starter to build between 3 and the retaining wall? It was in railway use in 1906 (According the nls.maps) , party as a fish dock, partly tracks. Maybe narrowing 3 a little if necessary. Should be room for a 6 car platform.

 

[Halifaxlad]

What would I do? Demolish the remains of the old station wall by the Midland Hotel to open the area up to more light and space. Widen the ground level pedestrian link to Lower Kirkgate and create a 'pocket park'. I would also look into to creating a set of steps / ramp if possible down from the Hamm Strasse ring road bridge down to the new platform or some other kind of entranceway from the north. This might help football fans access the station from the nearby Valley Parade ground.

I certainly wouldn't demolish the wall!

What I would do is to demolish the low quality, modern tax office building then extend all the platforms towards the hotel. Build a new enclosed concourse using the wall as its frontage.

The existing stairwell I would demolish and create a new high level footbridge in its place with access to all the platforms. With the station closer to the hotel this would then be an ideal location for secondary access to the platforms!

 

[JR108]

The Tax Office is due to be vacated in 2027. As it currently stands it creates a poor impression of the city and having to walk around it is not ideal.

 

[matacaster]

Just had a look at the images on Google Maps. Is it really a non starter to build between 3 and the retaining wall? It was in railway use in 1906 (According the nls.maps) , party as a fish dock, partly tracks. Maybe narrowing 3 a little if necessary. Should be room for a 6 car platform.

I seem to remember it was used for motorail, can anyone confirm this?

 

[MichaelTrains]

Do any of the Bradford platforms ever have THREE trains in? Or is there just space for two? (Apart from platform 3 at only 100m long)

Yes, but only on Platforms one and two. I’m not joking when it takes two minutes to walk down to the train from the barriers. It’s ridiculous.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Yes, but only on Platforms one and two. I’m not joking when it takes two minutes to walk down to the train from the barriers. It’s ridiculous.

It's annoying for the conductors as well, as to 'bell out' they have to walk all the way to the station entrance and back.

 

[30907]

Unfortunately there is a lower but still substantial retaining wall that starts almost at the end of 3, so that would require fairly major work. I don't think P3 could be extended to take 6 cars with the wall where it is.
No doubt factors in the decision to widen on the other side!

 

[Andyh82]

Nice photo.

To be fair, 30 years ago these decisions would have made sense; as would the decisions about Exchange/Interchange, 20 years before that. Rail was in decline, and assumed to continue, despite what the PTEs were thinking and doing.

Before electrification, how many services per hour were using Forster Square?

There were no Leeds services, and I’m not sure Ilkley and Skipton were half hourly, they may have been hourly

So you’ve got 2-4 services per hour. On that basis it made perfect sense to build a smaller station and selling off the land

Of course the ramp down from Manor Row could be much nicer than it is if Bradford was more of a thriving town, with the arches filled with shops, coffee carts etc, but it isn’t, so instead the arches are filled with an increasing number of homeless people sleeping in tents.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Of course the ramp down from Manor Row could be much nicer than it is if Bradford was more of a thriving town, with the arches filled with shops, coffee carts etc, but it isn’t, so instead the arches are filled with an increasing number of homeless people sleeping in tents.

You wouldnt even need the long ramp down if they simply kept the platforms terminsting up to the Midland Hotel. Downsizing was/is understandable then but moving the start of the station further North was a mistake!

A mistake that should be undone!

 

[Andyh82]

It wouldn’t make sense now anyway as you would be just met with the side of Broadway and there is no entrance on that side. You’d have to turn left or right and end up no better than you are at present

Of course had the station still been there, they may have designed Broadway to have an entrance on that side, but it wasn’t, so they didn’t

How long the Midland will stay half decent now Britannia have taken it over is also a question

 

[Halifaxlad]

It wouldn’t make sense now anyway as you would be just met with the side of Broadway and there is no entrance on that side. You’d have to turn left or right and end up no better than you are at present

Of course it would!

You wouldnt have to walk up to walk down and a distance of 200m just to reach the station!

The existing station feels like its hidden away and I dont think inspires much confidence in Bradford. This new station redesign wont do much difference either.

As for the Broadway ideally Lower Kirkgate should have been straightened but nevermind. No doubt CBMDC will propose to pedestrianise it at some point anyway!

 

[BrianW]

Of course it would!

You wouldnt have to walk up to walk down and a distance of 200m just to reach the station!

The existing station feels like its hidden away and I dont think inspires much confidence in Bradford. This new station redesign wont do much difference either.

As for the Broadway ideally Lower Kirkgate should have been straightened but nevermind. No doubt CBMDC will propose to pedestrianise it at some point anyway!

Is this/will this be the 'new station' promised by government for Bradford?

 

[Halifaxlad]

Is this/will this be the 'new station' promised by government for Bradford?

No the new station promised by the goverment is something else, the comments above are purely in relation to Bradford Forster Square!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Before electrification, how many services per hour were using Forster Square?

There were no Leeds services, and I’m not sure Ilkley and Skipton were half hourly, they may have been hourly.

In the last few years before the electrification, all legs of the triangle were half-hourly- though as you rightly say there were no Bradford to Leeds services then. They were however operated with a mix of 2 and 3-car Pacers rather than the all 3-car 308s, and later 4-car EMUs they became once the 333s and 322s came in. So 4tph at BDQ plus the one ECML service per day, so three platforms were plenty.
It was the wires (and 308s) that brought the Leeds to Bradford services, and cascaded the newer Pacers to kill off the 141s.

 

[MichaelTrains]

Before electrification, how many services per hour were using Forster Square?

There were no Leeds services, and I’m not sure Ilkley and Skipton were half hourly, they may have been hourly

So you’ve got 2-4 services per hour. On that basis it made perfect sense to build a smaller station and selling off the land

Of course the ramp down from Manor Row could be much nicer than it is if Bradford was more of a thriving town, with the arches filled with shops, coffee carts etc, but it isn’t, so instead the arches are filled with an increasing number of homeless people sleeping in tents.

Good point on the homeless people.

I refuse to go that way after 8:00 pm due to the anti-social behaviour from those living under the arches.

I've seen a fair few unpleasant incidents with the homeless and professional beggars targetting those affluent visitors to the city from Ilkley and Skipton when leaving the Alhambra or St Georges Hall and returning for their return train.

 

[Bantamzen]

Good point on the homeless people.

I refuse to go that way after 8:00 pm due to the anti-social behaviour from those living under the arches.

I've seen a fair few unpleasant incidents with the homeless and professional beggars targetting those affluent visitors to the city from Ilkley and Skipton when leaving the Alhambra or St Georges Hall and returning for their return train.

Its not just the anti-social behaviour I'm afraid, there is an increasing rancid smell as it seems some use the "spare" arches as toilets. It was particularly bad on Saturday evening after the City game. I'm really surprised that NR, Northern, HMRC or the Midland Hotel aren't complaining more to Bradford Council about. They all at some point must be able to smell it in their premises.

Of course it would!

You wouldnt have to walk up to walk down and a distance of 200m just to reach the station!

The existing station feels like its hidden away and I dont think inspires much confidence in Bradford. This new station redesign wont do much difference either.

As for the Broadway ideally Lower Kirkgate should have been straightened but nevermind. No doubt CBMDC will propose to pedestrianise it at some point anyway!

Lower Kirkgate will become the main bus route around the edge of the city centre once Market Street is pedestrianised.

Bradford Centre - new bus hubs

Summary Eight new bus hubs are also proposed around the city centre. The new hubs will feature improved facilities for waiting passengers. They will likely include shelter, improved seating, improved lighting, real time bus information and ticket purchasing services. A

www.yourvoice.westyorks-ca.gov.uk

 

[YorksLad12]

Is there anything in the big space between Centenary Court and Valley Road, or is Google being mean and offering my a false canvas on which to build a new four-platform station...?

 

[Bantamzen]

Is there anything in the big space between Centenary Court and Valley Road, or is Google being mean and offering my a false canvas on which to build a new four-platform station...?

Not at the moment. It was proposed to be used for more retail, leisure units but nothing has moved forward, although some workmen are on site there.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Is there anything in the big space between Centenary Court and Valley Road, or is Google being mean and offering my a false canvas on which to build a new four-platform station...?

How would you access such a station thou ? The throat to any platforms would end up in the retail park!

 

[MichaelTrains]

How would you access such a station thou ? The throat to any platforms would end up in the retail park!

Just demolish the current one and add slight curves to take it into the old post office site.

I’ve only just found out that pretty much the entire city centre is going to be pedestrian only.

They are building new Bus Station hubs around the town with one over the road from the old post office.

From what I’ve seen it will have a waiting shelter and a ticket office.

 

[xotGD]

Those arches just need to be blocked off.

"Welcome to the City of Culture". As if.

 

[YorksLad12]

Not at the moment. It was proposed to be used for more retail, leisure units but nothing has moved forward, although some workmen are on site there.

Ta.

How would you access such a station thou ? The throat to any platforms would end up in the retail park!

Assuming Centenary Court went as well: move the lines westwards (as those platforms would go), which should leave enough for a gentle curve east (say a 150 degree angle from where the line is now) into four platforms between 150m and 180m long. You'd have to move the car park (obvs), but you could also move the taxi rank to the space marked Forster Court, separating it from pick-ups and drop-off by private hires and private vehicles.

 

[MichaelTrains]

Triple stacking again this lunchtime. Absolutely ridiculous situation that needs to be stopped.

 

[yoyothehobo]

Triple stacking again this lunchtime. Absolutely ridiculous situation that needs to be stopped.

how much is because there are no trains to ilkley at the moment?

 

[Halifaxlad]

Triple stacking again this lunchtime. Absolutely ridiculous situation that needs to be stopped.

Well once all the 333s have left Yorkshire instead of 7 carriages it ill be 9. Whilst stacking isnt a good idea for punuctuality I dont see it ridiculous from a passenger perspective!

 

[Neptune]

Well once all the 333s have left Yorkshire instead of 7 carriages it ill be 9.

The 333’s aren’t going anywhere despite inaccurate speculation in other threads. Come December the plan is a half hourly triangle service on all legs with 333’s doing the Bradford services alongside the 2 Donny diagrams and some of the Leeds - Skipton/Ilkley diagrams.

 

[JR108]

Although welcome, the new platform won't solve many of the wider issues the station faces. Truncating might have seemed like a good idea back in the early 1990s, however, Bradford is now paying a heavy price. Connectivity is the key and moving a major railway station further away from the centre was self-sabotage. Failing to sell the land for a shopping centre and then having to really on central government to build something on the site i.e. a Tax Office which is due to close in 2027 is even more sad. The pedestrian link to Kirkgate, the station access road (from Valley Road) the taxi drop off point plus the landscaping around the arches were all added later, sometimes little more than an afterthought. Although expensive, and maybe not actually possible, the local council could look towards demolishing the Tax Office once it becomes vacant and create a wider access route and landscaped area similar to what is happening by the Interchange with the demolition of the old Hall Ings MSCP. Perhaps, a route could be safeguarded (across the former Royal Mail site which sat next to the old station) for a light rail link across the central area. Perhaps, the council could look into how much a pedestrian tunnel would cost between one of the arches and Sunbridge Wells which would create a new walking route to Centenary Square. The distance can't actually be that far? Only thoughts.

 

[MichaelTrains]

how much is because there are no trains to ilkley at the moment?

Triple stacking is a regular occurrence when everything runs fine.

If Northern are going to stable units at Bradford they need another platform to stop people walking 150 yards down the platform and being forced to wait out in the open.

 

[Halifaxlad]

Triple stacking is a regular occurrence when everything runs fine.

If Northern are going to stable units at Bradford they need another platform to stop people walking 150 yards down the platform and being forced to wait out in the open.

Surely then the answer is to extend the canopy ?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Triple stacking is a regular occurrence when everything runs fine.

If Northern are going to stable units at Bradford they need another platform to stop people walking 150 yards down the platform and being forced to wait out in the open.

Surely nobody has to do both? If the train is locked, don't leave the cover to walk down just to stand exposed by the door. If it's unlocked, just walk down and get on board.