• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Bus Manufacturer News & Discussion

Edvid

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2008
Messages
1,342
ADL published a few shots of their E100EV demonstrator at Millbrook today.


⚡
Static and dynamic testing of our next-generation Enviro100EV continues as our teams work towards full certification of our "big small bus". Here it is at the famous Millbrook Proving Ground where our experts have been putting the electric bus through its paces.
Engineered with purpose and attention to durability and detail, the Enviro100EV is equally at home in town streets and country lanes.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

GusB

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
6,651
Location
Elginshire
The discussion about heating electric buses has been moved to a separate thread:
 

Edvid

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2008
Messages
1,342
National Express are expecting delivery of a Caetano hydrogen prototype sometime this year. As yet it is unknown when it'll be trialled on scheduled coach routes.

Extract below from a Route One interview with Alex Jensen on several topics.

Hydrogen coach is on the horizon​

B2B customers are showing mounting interest in the environmental footprint of services delivered on their behalf. National Express is already a market leader in the shift to zero-emission buses via its operations in the West Midlands, and it has an ambition for its UK coach and bus fleets to have completed that move by 2035.

The first zero-emission coach to carry the operator’s white livery for scheduled services is due from Caetano this year. It will be powered by a hydrogen fuel cell. Further details of that prototype are awaited, and it is not yet certain that it will enter service in 2024. “I am excited about trialling the hydrogen coach,” says Ms Jensen. “We need to understand how it performs and what the options [for zero-emission] are.”

There is no commitment to hydrogen as the long-term solution for the National Express coach fleet.
 

Mikey C

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2013
Messages
6,876
You'd need a massive infrastructure investment around the country to run hydrogen coaches, so that they can be filled up at both ends. It's not like local bus routes, where one garage would be enough to run lots of services
 

Eyersey468

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2018
Messages
2,175
You'd need a massive infrastructure investment around the country to run hydrogen coaches, so that they can be filled up at both ends. It's not like local bus routes, where one garage would be enough to run lots of services
The reason NX are looking at hydrogen is the electric coaches on the market don't have a big enough range on a charge. Charging at Victoria isn't feasible due to a) the time it takes to charge them and b) there isn't the space for everything to charge there
 

fgwrich

Established Member
Joined
15 Apr 2009
Messages
9,309
Location
Between Edinburgh and Exeter
ADL published a few shots of their E100EV demonstrator at Millbrook today.

Either this has been debranded or, ADL has a demonstrator vehicle painted up in that ADL Demo Vehicle metallic blue as one passed my office in Aldershot this afternoon. Unfortunately I didn't manage to snap a picture as traffic was moving fairly quickly.
 

Mikey C

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2013
Messages
6,876
The reason NX are looking at hydrogen is the electric coaches on the market don't have a big enough range on a charge. Charging at Victoria isn't feasible due to a) the time it takes to charge them and b) there isn't the space for everything to charge there
I understand that, but hydrogen power would mean that every NX destination would need the ability to refuel (assuming that the range wouldn't be able to do there and back), which is expensive for what might be a one a day coach.
 
Joined
31 Dec 2021
Messages
809
Location
Glasgow
In other words, having hydrogen buses now and most likely for the foreseeable future isn’t practical or in most areas even possible.
 

Eyersey468

Established Member
Joined
14 Sep 2018
Messages
2,175
I understand that, but hydrogen power would mean that every NX destination would need the ability to refuel (assuming that the range wouldn't be able to do there and back), which is expensive for what might be a one a day coach.
NX seem to think that the range of a hydrogen coach would be big enough to do there and back for the majority of their runs
 

GusB

Established Member
Associate Staff
Buses & Coaches
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
6,651
Location
Elginshire
Following on from the news (post#2254) that National Express is to receive a prototype hydrogen coach, Wright also wants a piece of the action.

Wrightbus‘ planned hydrogen coach is expected to be in production by 2026.

Jean-Marc Gales, Wrightbus CEO, told B&CB that a prototype model intended to demonstrate the powertrain is expected towards the end of the year.

Jean-Marc said: “The concept is ready, the predevelopment work has been done, so we are confident we can launch it in 2026.”

He says the vehicle is aimed at operators that do long distance coach journeys. “Hydrogen coaches can do up to 1,000km range and in five to ten years we will see a much higher proportion of hydrogen coaches than electrical,” he said.

For future roll out of hydrogen coaches, Jean-Marc admits that more infrastructure needs putting in place, but says Wrightbus is well placed for this with Hygen for hydrogen generation and Rise for hydrogen infrastructure under the wing of Jo Bamford, Wrightbus’ owner.

Jean-Marc said: “If you build a hydrogen coach, it’s a technical tour de force. Coach operators require six to ten cubic metres of luggage space. You need at least 50 to 60 seats and disability access and enough packaging space to put the tanks and the hydrogen cooling system and the fuel cells in. But we can do it, we have the technical expertise with fuel cells; we have the best engineers on the market for fuel cell buses. We have millions of miles with electrical and fuel cell vehicles in service since we launched them.

“If you look at operators like National Express, everybody needs coaches that do long distance and are zero emission. And for that, hydrogen coaches are the optimum solution.”

Whether the entire vehicle will be built in-house or a coach bodybuilder will be brought onboard for the project, Wrightbus has yet to decide.

Jean-Marc said: “It’s probably going to be a steel body. If you talk steel body, you’re talking coach builders. But we are reviewing that at the moment. We will probably take a decision in the next three to six months to get it all in motion.”

It's interesting that Wright is considering externally-built bodywork, especially as that's how the company started out.
 

Mikey C

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2013
Messages
6,876
Following on from the news (post#2254) that National Express is to receive a prototype hydrogen coach, Wright also wants a piece of the action.



It's interesting that Wright is considering externally-built bodywork, especially as that's how the company started out.
Yes, seems very weird to have a Wright chassis being bodied by someone else!
 

Edvid

Established Member
Joined
7 Feb 2008
Messages
1,342
Zemo Partnership testing and certification of the second-gen E400EV is complete.

Figures noted include average energy consumption (0.67kWh/km) and relative well-to-wheel GHG emissions (84% lower than a typical Euro VI equivalent). In comparison, the same figures for Wright's equivalent are currently 0.68kWh/km and 85% lower respectively.

Zemo certificates (main page here) - Enviro400EV (472kWh) / Streetdeck Electroliner (340kWh)

Majority of the ADL presser quoted below. Over 150 have been sold to date, of which 74 were part-funded by ZEBRA 1 (for Stagecoach Oxfordshire / Transdev Blazefield); not sure where the rest are going.

Alexander Dennis, a subsidiary of NFI Group Inc., one of the world’s leading independent global bus manufacturers, today announced that its next-generation Enviro400EV electric double decker has completed the Zemo Partnership’s zero-emission bus testing and certification programme.

The work, which was undertaken at UTAC’s approved test facility at Millbrook Proving Ground, confirms an average energy consumption of just 0.67kWh/km across the UK Bus Cycle. This makes the next-generation Enviro400EV the most efficient battery-electric double decker tested to Zemo Partnership standards to date, delivering a 10% efficiency advantage over competitors’ vehicles of comparable battery size.

The UK Bus Cycle represents a mix of common operating conditions with separate phases modelled on inner urban, outer urban and rural routes. Thanks to its use of the heavy-duty version of the Voith Electrical Drive System, the Enviro400EV is extremely efficient across all parts of the cycle including the demanding inner urban element. This ensures operators will be able to minimise their energy costs even on highly intensive services in such as those in London, boosting value and keeping total cost of ownership low.

Combined with the Enviro400EV’s future-proof battery system, which is supplied by Impact Clean Power Technology and allows 88% of its 472kWh capacity to be used, the 0.67kWh/km energy consumption in the UK Bus Cycle gives the electric double decker a stunning theoretical operating range of up to 620km (385 miles) on a single charge.

[...]

Alexander Dennis Group Engineering Director, Chris Gall, said: “Our next-generation Enviro400EV’s energy efficiency of 0.67kWh/km sets a new benchmark and is testament to Alexander Dennis’s lineage and strength in designing innovative products meeting the needs of the UK bus industry.

“The result demonstrates not just to the expertise of our fantastic engineering team who designed and developed the bus – it also confirms the efficacy of the system of zero-emission bus testing overseen by the Zemo Partnership. The process encourages us and our fellow UK manufacturers to continually raise the bar, bringing down customers’ operating costs through reduced energy consumption and ensuring the transition to zero-emission technology is both sustainable and profitable.”

The Zemo Partnership certifies vehicles following independent physical testing to ensure public money such as the UK Government’s Zero-Emission Regional Bus Areas (ZEBRA) or the Scottish Government’s Zero Emission Bus Challenge Fund (ScotZEB) supports proven zero-emission vehicle technologies that will perform in service. The certificates provide an independent means for operators to compare different suppliers and technologies on a like-for-like basis.

In addition to demonstrating the Enviro400EV’s exceptional energy efficiency, its zero-emission bus certification also confirms that its well-to-wheel greenhouse gas emissions when charged with UK grid electricity are 84% lower than those of an average Euro VI diesel equivalent vehicle. This allows the next-generation Alexander Dennis electric bus to deliver a substantial net reduction in lifecycle carbon emissions.

Over 150 next-generation Alexander Dennis Enviro400EV have been sold to date to customers including Stagecoach and Transdev, with deliveries of the first completed vehicles now imminent.
 
Joined
31 Dec 2021
Messages
809
Location
Glasgow
Zemo Partnership testing and certification of the second-gen E400EV is complete.

Figures noted include average energy consumption (0.67kWh/km) and relative well-to-wheel GHG emissions (84% lower than a typical Euro VI equivalent). In comparison, the same figures for Wright's equivalent are currently 0.68kWh/km and 85% lower respectively.

Zemo certificates (main page here) - Enviro400EV (472kWh) / Streetdeck Electroliner (340kWh)

Majority of the ADL presser quoted below. Over 150 have been sold to date, of which 74 were part-funded by ZEBRA 1 (for Stagecoach Oxfordshire / Transdev Blazefield); not sure where the rest are going.
Impressive on paper but I’d be more interested in the real world in-service figures.
 

37114

Member
Joined
4 Jul 2019
Messages
336
Impressive on paper but I’d be more interested in the real world in-service figures.
I think the results are somewhere between the 2 i.e. A vehicle has been put through a series of tests that are to replicate real world in service life to generate the numbers quoted rather than what the ADL designers software says? I guess the test will never be 100% real world as conditions will vary massively between say inner London and rural Wales but the test does provide a comparator to competitor products. Would be interesting to see the same test results for the Volvo BZL as (alongside the Wright vehicles) it is stealing the march in the EV Double Deck space
 

Mikey C

Established Member
Joined
11 Feb 2013
Messages
6,876
It's not unreasonable to expect a new model to be better than its rivals, at a time when the technology is still improving quickly. It would be a bit curious for ADL to launch a new E400EV with worse range than the existing Wright rival.
 

Towers

Established Member
Joined
30 Aug 2021
Messages
1,703
Location
UK

MotCO

Established Member
Joined
25 Aug 2014
Messages
4,150
Thanks. In which case based on the Kwh/KM both the ADL and Wright products are way in front of Volvo.
And comparable to the Yutong UIIDD (0.69 Kwh/KM).

The Volvo also has a lower passenger capacity (81, lower than the single deck BZL, 86) - The AD and Wrights are 84 and 98 respectively.
 

Top