16-25 10am minimum fare query

[800Travel]

Hi,

Say for example there was a train scheduled to depart at 09:45 and the non-discounted fare was £3. In this instance, the 16-25 railcard couldn't be used.

However, if the train was still timetabled to depart at 09:45 but due to delays the expected departure time was 10:00 or later, could the discounted ticket (~£2) be used on the service as long as you only boarded the train at or after 10am please?

In short, does the 10am restriction apply to the actual departure time or the scheduled departure time please?

Thank you

 

[JonathanH]

In short, does the 10am restriction apply to the actual departure time or the scheduled departure time please?

The terms and conditions say journeys made after 10am, although you would have to be fairly certain a train a 0945 was going to be 16 minutes late if buying a discounted ticket to use it. Bear in mind that a ticket has to be purchased before boarding.
https://www.16-25railcard.co.uk/help/railcard-terms-conditions/

4.5. The 16-25 Railcard has a minimum fare that applies from 04.30 and 10.00 Monday to Friday. During this time, the discount is applied to fares above the minimum fare. This minimum fare does not apply to:

4.5.1. Advance tickets; or

4.5.2. journeys on public holidays; or

4.5.3. journeys during July and August.

 

[LowLevel]

Very much open to interpretation and asking for trouble. Personally I can't be bothered with such things but boarding say the 0958 running 2 minutes late you would have to be pretty certain of your interpretation.

I agree it would be pretty petty to pick fault over it but still!

 

[Western Sunset]

4.5 states that min. fare applies 0430 - 1000. So if the train leaves after 1000 (even 10am plus one second), then ticket is valid.
It's the time period when the ticket isn't valid, rather than specific trains.
Though what'd happen if you were on a train due to terminate at 0429 but it arrived one min. late...

 

[Haywain]

Though what'd happen if you were on a train due to terminate at 0429 but it arrived one min. late...

The artival time is irrelevant, it is the time of commencing the journey that governs whether a (full) discount can be applied.

 

[yorkie]

4.5 states that min. fare applies 0430 - 1000. So if the train leaves after 1000 (even 10am plus one second), then ticket is valid.
It's the time period when the ticket isn't valid, rather than specific trains.

Exactly this; it is valid.

 

[Benjwri]

The terms and conditions say journeys made after 10am, although you would have to be fairly certain a train a 0945 was going to be 16 minutes late if buying a discounted ticket to use it. Bear in mind that a ticket has to be purchased before boarding.
https://www.16-25railcard.co.uk/help/railcard-terms-conditions/

To be fair I think this is most relevant to a disruption situation, say someone was planning to get a train at 10:02, but because of disruption that train is delayed, and the train before which was say 9:45 is delayed past 10

 

[yorkie]

Yes if a train is running sufficiently late, it's valid.

This is different to restrictions which are worded "trains timed to depart..."

 

[TUC]

4.5 states that min. fare applies 0430 - 1000. So if the train leaves after 1000 (even 10am plus one second), then ticket is valid.
It's the time period when the ticket isn't valid, rather than specific trains.
Though what'd happen if you were on a train due to terminate at 0429 but it arrived one min. late...

That could cut both ways though. It would be harsh for someone using a 16-25 railcard on an 0429 train running two minutes late to be told that their railcard isn't valid.

 

[Puffing Devil]

That could cut both ways though. It would be harsh for someone using a 16-25 railcard on an 0429 train running two minutes late to be told that their railcard isn't valid.

Harsh, but very much an edge case.

 

[Benjwri]

That could cut both ways though. It would be harsh for someone using a 16-25 railcard on an 0429 train running two minutes late to be told that their railcard isn't valid.

If they were pushed into the 0429-1000 gap, this means as a result of disruption their journey is delayed by more than an hour (As no trains which this ticket is valid for are running for 5hr30), and therefore under PRO they are entitled to rerouting, and therefore to still travel on the train. They also have an itinerary for the train, and therefore their ticket is de facto valid.

In reality discretion would be shown in 99.9% of cases, and in the 0.1% it would be overturned on appeal.