First South West (Kernow & Buses of Somerset)

[Dfatcontroller]

Remembered this from a while ago - will some of the Streelites currently coming off the Bee Network be joining the BOS fleet?

Some are heading to Worcester and Lawrence Hill. Very short term use of yellow paint!

 

[Goldfish62]

Maybe it's been around and I just haven't seen it, but a Sunseeker branded bus was optimistically allocated to the Atlantic Coaster service today, May Day.

It's a regular on the Land's End Coaster.

Cormac, the council's commercial division, has submitted the planning application for the new multi-operator depot at Penzance replacing the current inadequate First and GoAhead facilities. It is being partly paid for through BSIP funding.

The location is on the site of the two current depots, plus the yard next to the First depot that has been used for bus storage in the past. There is parking for 50 buses and a generous amount of staff parking. There will be shared a shared fuel and adblue bay and bus wash. Staff buildings will be separate. There will also be ducting for future electrification.

PA24/02306 | Improvements to Longrock bus depot facilities to provide bus and staff car parking, bus washing & fuelling and relocation of existing welfare and offices portable buildings and provision of new toilet cabin facilities

Online planning registers for Cornwall. View and comment on planning applications and documents online.

planning.cornwall.gov.uk

Here's the site plan:

 

[vla50]

Some are heading to Worcester and Lawrence Hill. Very short term use of yellow paint!

I don’t think all are moving though

 

[Goldfish62]

I assume there's been a ticket machine swap because yellow open topper 37736 is tracking on The Mousehole today! Whatever it is it must still be a big bus, because it's not tracking at the harbour.

Also on the route is a Solo SR.

The last of the former Regal Busways Solos, 53505, is now SORN.

 

[vla50]

Some Streetdecks are moving into Norwich from Leicester, will these move the Blue Line B9s out and push them towards Cornwall?

 

[Goldfish62]

Cornwall's Coaster branded 36100 was towed to Weymouth depot yesterday. That didn't last long!

 

[83G/84D]

Some Streetdecks are moving into Norwich from Leicester, will these move the Blue Line B9s out and push them towards Cornwall?

The old B7TL's have to go at some point as I was told all the fleet has to be Euro6 by later this year. It still does seem that Norwich and / or Yorkshire are where replacements are coming from.

 

[Goldfish62]

So, with the new purple/grey purple livery now appearing at several fleets I'm what will happen with Kernow. Will it gain the new livery, or maybe something different for the TfC partnership? Or just carry on as now and simply not bother with repaints?

 

[B7RLE]

So, with the new purple/grey purple livery now appearing at several fleets I'm what will happen with Kernow. Will it gain the new livery, or maybe something different for the TfC partnership? Or just carry on as now and simply not bother with repaints?

Purple/Grey so we are hearing in house; the only thing they haven't said is when

 

[fgwrich]

Purple/Grey so we are hearing in house; the only thing they haven't said is when

I presume this is it then, albeit in a typically unfinished First bus state. A bit of a shame if Kernow is lost to that, Sure Kernow needs a tidy up (and binning off of disused brands such as the Day|Tripper, Copper etc) but to go from some of the smart liveries First has had across it's Op Co's (Bath Blue, Swansea Reds etc) to a rather bland scheme like that is disappointing - they finally seemed to have turned a corner with Urban 2!

First Glasgow 33252 - YX68 UPD at Buchanan Bus Stn

Passing through Buchanan Bus Stn this afternoon. And it's First Glasgow E400MMC to received new First Bus livey.

www.flickr.com

38407 - LC71ESN (Electric - unbranded)

Seen heading into Glasgow City Centre at Cowcaddens is the second of First Glasgow's Alexander Dennis Enviro 400EV City in the form of 38407 - LC71ESN to be repainted into the new FirstGroup livery albeit without any decals yet.

www.flickr.com

 

[Andyh82]

Can you imagine the meeting at head office?

You know all those brands we’ve just spent the last few years developing and in many cases are about 90% complete - Badgerline, Bath Blue, Citylines, Sheffield, Doncaster, HD Connect, Leeds City, Ipswich Reds, Coastal Reds, Wessex, Beeline, Solent…

Why don’t we scrap them all?

 

[Citistar]

It seems somewhat irrelevant as operator liveries seem likely to be replaced by the vanity of franchise area liveries after the next election anyway.

 

[Goldfish62]

Purple/Grey so we are hearing in house; the only thing they haven't said is when

Repaints will probably start around the time that First decides to revert to local liveries elsewhere.

It seems somewhat irrelevant as operator liveries seem likely to be replaced by the vanity of franchise area liveries after the next election anyway.

I am not aware that Cornwall is planning franchising.

I presume this is it then, albeit in a typically unfinished First bus state.

I've seen a photo somewhere of a vinyled South Yorkshire one. It looks pretty smart, but the shame is no local names - just rather large "First Bus" names on the sides.

 

[richw]

I am not aware that Cornwall is planning franchising

Cornwall is the pilot area for the other option of enhanced partnerships which is proving a success in my opinion. Devon has also decided to go down the enhanced partnership route with the new Devonbus brand. Timetables and leaflets are all in the same style as stagecoach 10456 that was unveiled at the Devon county show

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I've seen a photo somewhere of a vinyled South Yorkshire one. It looks pretty smart, but the shame is no local names - just rather large "First Bus" names on the sides.

There is an Ipswich Eclipse - that's the same.

 

[farwest]

The livery sounds like the final death knell to the good local First Kernow. With small vehicles on the Tinner and U1 leaving passengers behind and the end of clock face timetables after the last change I think First group is losing the plot.

 

[Goldfish62]

With small vehicles on the Tinner and U1 leaving passengers behind

And the Land's End Coaster being cut back so much that passengers are left in the middle of nowhere to wait two hours for the next bus and hoping that too isn't full.

Some Streetdecks are moving into Norwich from Leicester, will these move the Blue Line B9s out and push them towards Cornwall?

Norwich B9s 36167 and 36169 are currently on their way to Cornwall.

 

[Accelerator59]

Norwich B9s 36167 and 36169 are currently on their way to Cornwall.

The latter on the Tinner routes today according to Bustimes.

 

[vla50]

47419 has now moved to Buses of Somerset. I wonder how many more will make the move?

 

[Andyh82]

I think with every year they’ve moved further and further away from the branding and allocations that should happen

Last year I think it was the case where the Tinner was mostly red buses even if you’d see some elsewhere as well, and more journeys were E400MMCs that not

This year it seems Gemini’s in a variety of liveries appear in greater numbers than the MMCs. DayTripper buses seemed more prominent whereas last year they’d mostly stay out of the way

I also today saw 53257 on the Tinner and 44954 & 53860 on the U Lines

I also visited Weymouth, which is same management and it seems they were going out of their way to wrongly allocate. Maybe now officially every livery is ‘defunct’ they’ve stopped even attempting to bother

So, with the new purple/grey purple livery now appearing at several fleets I'm what will happen with Kernow. Will it gain the new livery, or maybe something different for the TfC partnership? Or just carry on as now and simply not bother with repaints?

I’m wondering rather than introducing a new livery, whether they should paint buses TfC red

Or, as they like to do publicity with drawings of red buses and green buses, maybe plain green

 

[Goldfish62]

I was surprised to see ex-Norwich 36167 in Penzance on the 17 earlier roaring away like a B7. First obviously didn't specify the quieter cooling fan for their non-London B9s.

 

[Andyh82]

I had a ride on the MOUSE today and my conclusion is that it isn’t working, the buses are too small

The vehicle was full to the rafters, there must have been 10 people stood up in the aisle, and it’s only June. It wasn’t very enjoyable.

In my opinion, they should do one of the following:
- Stop serving the Harbour altogether and run the service with big buses
- Swap the frequencies of the CAT and MOUSE over, so the CAT runs every 20 mins, and the MOUSE is hourly, or possibly run both every 30 minutes
- Don’t pick up passengers in Newlyn, force passengers to use other services

I’d opt for the middle one

Also now buses turning at Old Coastguards is a scheduled fixture, should they erect some bus stops at the place the bus actually stops, as it is nowhere near the actual Old Coastguards bus stop.

 

[Busaholic]

I had a ride on the MOUSE today and my conclusion is that it isn’t working, the buses are too small

The vehicle was full to the rafters, there must have been 10 people stood up in the aisle, and it’s only June. It wasn’t very enjoyable.

In my opinion, they should do one of the following:
- Stop serving the Harbour altogether and run the service with big buses
- Swap the frequencies of the CAT and MOUSE over, so the CAT runs every 20 mins, and the MOUSE is hourly, or possibly run both every 30 minutes
- Don’t pick up passengers in Newlyn, force passengers to use other services

I’d opt for the middle one

Also now buses turning at Old Coastguards is a scheduled fixture, should they erect some bus stops at the place the bus actually stops, as it is nowhere near the actual Old Coastguards bus stop.

Not picking up passengers in Newlyn (I assume you mean only Penzance-bound) is not really an option, given some passengers may be getting off there. 'Other services' from Newlyn Bridge are only the 5A every two hours and a much reduced Lands End Coaster service, which at times might arrive full too.

Personally, I think a complete recast of services on the corridor needs to be considered which should start with a public consultation. This shouldn't
be beyond Transport for Cornwall's capabilities with input from both First and Go Ahead.

 

[CD]

47419 has now moved to Buses of Somerset. I wonder how many more will make the move?

Depends on how many E200s go for scrap. 47419 is still tracking as 47542.

 

[Goldfish62]

Not picking up passengers in Newlyn (I assume you mean only Penzance-bound) is not really an option, given some passengers may be getting off there. 'Other services' from Newlyn Bridge are only the 5A every two hours and a much reduced Lands End Coaster service, which at times might arrive full too.

Personally, I think a complete recast of services on the corridor needs to be considered which should start with a public consultation. This shouldn't
be beyond Transport for Cornwall's capabilities with input from both First and Go Ahead.

This morning I just missed a CAT into Penzance at Newlyn Bridge. It was empty. 7 min later a MOUSE turned up from Mousehole with every seat taken. It's pretty obvious where people get on in Mousehole, ie the harbour (it always has been despite some people on these forums not wanting to accept it!).

The ideal answer is to up the service to 4bph, not reverting to the disastrous timetable last year when they tried to do it with 3 buses, but by using a 4th bus. However, that's an added cost and FSW's policy, if the cuts to the Land's End Coaster and BoS 28 are anything to go by, is to try to pack every bus to the gunnels and accept that some passengers will be left behind.

 

[OptareOlympus]

This morning I just missed a CAT into Penzance at Newlyn Bridge. It was empty. 7 min later a MOUSE turned up from Mousehole with every seat taken. It's pretty obvious where people get on in Mousehole, ie the harbour (it always has been despite some people on these forums not wanting to accept it!).

The ideal answer is to up the service to 4bph, not reverting to the disastrous timetable last year when they tried to do it with 3 buses, but by using a 4th bus. However, that's an added cost and FSW's policy, if the cuts to the Land's End Coaster and BoS 28 are anything to go by, is to try to pack every bus to the gunnels and accept that some passengers will be left behind.

Is the reduced Lands End Coaster timetable this year (low and mid season timetables) really a cost cutting exercise or it simply down to available resources? You can't run buses without drivers and they still seem to be short at Penzance. The high season uplift to hourly would be possible due to school contract drivers being available for additional working through August.

As for Mousehole, throwing a fourth bus into the Harbour every hour would add at least £100,000 a year to the costs of that route. Would it even cover those costs let alone provide a return on that £100k?

 

[Goldfish62]

Is the reduced Lands End Coaster timetable this year (low and mid season timetables) really a cost cutting exercise or it simply down to available resources? You can't run buses without drivers and they still seem to be short at Penzance. The high season uplift to hourly would be possible due to school contract drivers being available for additional working through August.

As for Mousehole, throwing a fourth bus into the Harbour every hour would add at least £100,000 a year to the costs of that route. Would it even cover those costs let alone provide a return on that £100k?

Given that FSW is in a chronic state financially I'm more inclined to believe it's cost cutting, although I of course acknowledge that staffing is an issue. Whatever the reason, leaving passengers behind on a 2 hourly or 90 min headway in the middle of nowhere regularly is not acceptable - it's a good way to ruin the reputation of a route.

£100k per annum is rather on the cheap side to say the least. I'd expect closer to £200k. However, let's say that it is a realistic cost. Assuming that it operates 12 trips per day (0930-1730) it would need to generate an average additional £26 per trip to break even. Remembering that the £2 fares are topped up by subsidy that's not inconceivable. What we don't know of course is how profitable the MOUS is now and therefore how much leeway there is for assumed revenue generation to fall below expectations.

 

[richw]

£100k per annum is rather on the cheap side to say the least. I'd expect closer to £200k.

And the rest. Several years ago (2018/19) I was told an average £600 a day per bus to break even over the course of the year. I can only imagine that figure has risen significantly over the last few years.

 

[Goldfish62]

And the rest. Several years ago (2018/19) I was told an average £600 a day per bus to break even over the course of the year. I can only imagine that figure has risen significantly over the last few years.

Whoever told you that was talking nonsense I'm afraid.

Including an assumed 10% profit margin it's currently typically £200-250k depending on overheads, vehicle costs and length of day (which determines the number of duties and hence rota lines). It can be a lot less if it's costed marginally, eg the vehicle is fully costed already as it may for example be already used on a school working.

 

[farwest]

First Kernow reached a new low today and I felt very embarrassed for the drivers. Small buses again on the U1 again with loads of holiday makers in Newquay and Perranporth, students and shoppers. Passengers being left behind and even one waiting on crutches at Lander in Truro. A women getting off at Treliske hospital asked 'I don't normally get the bus is it always like this?' A great way to encourage travel by bus!!