SNCF Ends all International Ticket Sales

[Fragezeichnen]

I'm not sure how many people here use SNCF as their vendor of choice of international travel, but for info, starting from next week(22/05) SNCF will cease selling any through tickets to destinations outside France, either online or in ticket offices; with the exception of journeys exclusively involving trains operated by SNCF itself or Eurostar.

This is tacitly admitted by this page: https://www.sncf-connect.com/en-en/help/international-trip* and can be seen from the SNCF connect journey planner. Another masterstroke from what is almost certainly the most customer-hostile railway company in Europe.

*An interesting side note is that unlike with other countries, SNCF refuses to give their customers any clue as to who might be able to provide onward ticketing in Spain and Italy, presumably out of spite at RENFE and FS for for daring to compete with SNCF on their home turf.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The UK of course ended them years ago, but this is rather playing into the hand of Trainline, is it not?

I wonder how much this might have to do with any possibility of a set of tickets being sold together being considered a through journey and thus with more rights?

 

[Planesandtrain]

They must have really felt the impact of Europe Day... an absolute disgrace what has become of international rail travel within many parts of europe.

 

[Bletchleyite]

When you read the linked page it suggests it's temporary, so maybe it'll be back?

 

[Mainline421]

Crazy how international ticketing continues to become more fragmented! Pre-Covid SNCF were selling tickets as far as Moscow, now it appears only DB and OEBB are interested in continuing cross-Europe ticketing. Really the EU should have introduced one central system years ago.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Crazy how international ticketing continues to become more fragmented! Pre-Covid SNCF were selling tickets as far as Moscow, now it appears only DB and OEBB are interested in continuing cross-Europe ticketing. Really the EU should have introduced one central system years ago.

There is one, it's just operated by a company that isn't massively in favour on here

 

[rvdborgt]

The UK of course ended them years ago, but this is rather playing into the hand of Trainline, is it not?

I wonder how much this might have to do with any possibility of a set of tickets being sold together being considered a through journey and thus with more rights?

Maybe, but if they clearly state in advance that they don't sell through contracts, then through contacts would only exist in cases where the operator is the same after changing trains, e.g. in Germany, Switzerland or the Netherlands (looking at the case when you arrive by Eurostar/TGV/ICE from France).
If SNCF did this because they didn't sell a lot of these tickets, then they set themselves up for this, since they only sold fully flexible tickets in many of the cases where they'll give up ticket sales, e.g. Germany.

 

[renegademaster]

Is this because they where paying too much delay compensation for poor connections with services outside of France? Miss an ICE by 20 minutes can easily turn into a 3 hour delay

 

[Cloud Strife]

Crazy how international ticketing continues to become more fragmented! Pre-Covid SNCF were selling tickets as far as Moscow, now it appears only DB and OEBB are interested in continuing cross-Europe ticketing. Really the EU should have introduced one central system years ago.

What is particularly idiotic is that there's no real technological reason stopping such sales. The problem seems to be more that the base international fares are incredibly high, leading to the development of special tickets for cross-border services that can only be purchased in isolation.

Still, I find it very strange that there's no integration between operators. For instance, why isn't there the possibility of buying a joint KD-CD ticket on regional trains from Wrocław to destinations such as Svitavy? CD apparently do sell such tickets, but it's impossible to find out the price online.

 

[AY1975]

I'm not sure how many people here use SNCF as their vendor of choice of international travel, but for info, starting from next week(22/05) SNCF will cease selling any through tickets to destinations outside France, either online or in ticket offices; with the exception of journeys exclusively involving trains operated by SNCF itself or Eurostar.

This is tacitly admitted by this page: https://www.sncf-connect.com/en-en/help/international-trip* and can be seen from the SNCF connect journey planner. Another masterstroke from what is almost certainly the most customer-hostile railway company in Europe.

*An interesting side note is that unlike with other countries, SNCF refuses to give their customers any clue as to who might be able to provide onward ticketing in Spain and Italy, presumably out of spite at RENFE and FS for for daring to compete with SNCF on their home turf.

In fact, that page seems to indicate that SNCF will still (or currently still does) sell tickets to a very limited range of destinations in each of its neighbouring countries.

Also interesting is that for journeys for which SNCF will not sell you a through ticket, it advises you to use the SNCF site to book your journey as far as the border (or as far as wherever SNCF will sell you a ticket to) and the site of the relevant national operator for the rest of your journey, and that it only provides a link to each national operator's main site whereas in fact many national operators such as SNCB/NMBS, NS and DB have their own separate international sites where you can book your entire journey in many cases. I'm guessing that SNCF does not advise you to use such a site (or an international booking site such as Rail Europe) because SNCF will get a bigger percentage of the price of your ticket if you use the SNCF site for at least part of your journey.

 

[rvdborgt]

Is this because they where paying too much delay compensation for poor connections with services outside of France? Miss an ICE by 20 minutes can easily turn into a 3 hour delay

I doubt it. Only about one third of passengers know they can claim compensation for delay (see Eurostat research) and only part of them actually claim. Less so for the more inexperienced people who'd book a full price connecting ICE ticket via SNCF. And then SNCF will only issue vouchers, which you actually have to contest to get real money back. And SNCF would probably still contest that they sold you a through contract (as they'd have done before June 2023, when the revised regulation came into force).

According to Jon Worth:

"I’m told by a contact in a railway company in a country that borders France that the IT system SNCF used for these sales - called Reserail - has reached the end of its life. And so will be stopped. And the new system both isn’t ready yet and we don’t know when it will be ready. It’s a catastrophe for customers, but because it’s international all you get from SNCF is ‍♂️". (Not sure what this emoji means; edit: is shows up here differently than on LinkedIn.)
According to another comment in the same thread: "Résarail's phase-out was known at the very least 6 if not 10 years before. So this demonstrates total indifference of SNCF and inability to put appropriate systems in place."

Also interesting is that for journeys for which SNCF will not sell you a through ticket, it advises you to use the SNCF site to book your journey as far as the border (or as far as wherever SNCF will sell you a ticket to) and the site of the relevant national operator for the rest of your journey, and that it only provides a link to each national operator's main site whereas in fact many national operators such as SNCB/NMBS, NS and DB have their own separate international sites where you can book your entire journey in many cases. I'm guessing that SNCF does not advise you to use such a site (or an international booking site such as Rail Europe) because SNCF will get a bigger percentage of the price of your ticket if you use the SNCF site for at least part of your journey.

Or they advise that simply because the person who created that page has no clue about what other ways there actually are to buy tickets and what might be better places for passengers to use.
Interesting is also that there are no links given for "Travelling to Spain" and "Travelling to Italy", they just say: "please refer to the local carrier's website"

 

[ainsworth74]

Crazy how international ticketing continues to become more fragmented! Pre-Covid SNCF were selling tickets as far as Moscow, now it appears only DB and OEBB are interested in continuing cross-Europe ticketing. Really the EU should have introduced one central system years ago.

I'm not sure a central system is required, simply that the same protection we enjoy here when splitting tickets should be applied. I.e. even if you have two (or more) tickets as long as you allow the minimum interchange time for any changes on route you will be treated as if you had a through ticket.

There is one, it's just operated by a company that isn't massively in favour on here

Though that doesn't really help as all Trainline do is sell you split tickets as far as I'm aware so you'll still be up the creek if a connection is missed.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Though that doesn't really help as all Trainline do is sell you split tickets as far as I'm aware so you'll still be up the creek if a connection is missed.

No different to what SNCF will sell you. The through TCV tickets are pretty much not a thing any more, and even when they were they were quite costly at times.

The EU really needs to fix that aspect (but won't, as SNCF etc are too powerful a lobby) but in the meantime the only fix for it is insurance.

 

[riceuten]

SNCF have decided to no longer serve a particular market - as did Eurostar a while back. I don't remember a hue and cry when the latter did this. Perhaps SNCF have decided the hassle isn't worth the bother. Sadly, I detect a soupcon of anti-French bias one occasionally detects.

Local cross border rail travel, outside of premium services, is something of a mess wherever you are in Europe. I remember - prior to the introduction of Paris to Barcelona (and vv) TGVs, you couldn't actually buy a local ticket further into France on the Renfe website (or even in person at Portbou station) than to Cerbere. You then had to make a dash for it and purchase a ticket at the latter for Perpignan. You could, inexplicably, buy a ticket from Perpignan to Portbou. Likewise Renfe trains further than Hendaye.

Likewise Saarbruecken to Forbach. Deutsche Bahn will only sell you an ICE ticket (at around €17 IIRC for a 9 minute trip). You CAN buy a ticket to Forbach at Saarbrucken Hbf, usually not from the machines, who try and sell you a bus ticket. Often you have to queue up behind someone planning a lengthy trip to the Nordseekuste to buy this ticket.

 

[Gaelan]

Not sure what this emoji means

Looking at the original LinkedIn post, that emoji is a person shrugging.

 

[ainsworth74]

SNCF have decided to no longer serve a particular market - as did Eurostar a while back. I don't remember a hue and cry when the latter did this.

There certainly was on the Forum and it crops up from time to time even now. It hasn't been a major topic of discussion for a while now but then Eurostar stopped doing through tickets a while ago!

 

[riceuten]

As a regular visitor to that part of the world, I’m certainly under no illusions about the less than stellar performance of SNCF, but it’s about holding all operators to similar standards. We’ve recently had ridiculous threads here recently about SNCF staff ‘refusing to speak English’. My own beef is often with SNCF’s quixotic timetabling, but, on the whole, I’ve found the staff helpful and engaged.

 

[ainsworth74]

We’ve recently had ridiculous threads here recently about SNCF staff ‘refusing to speak English’. My own beef is often with SNCF’s quixotic timetabling, but, on the whole, I’ve found the staff helpful and engaged.

Well yes that's obviously ludicrous I quite agree and as with you my experience of SNCF staff is that they tend to be helpful and friendly. Even if it's bumbling through an interaction with some combination of broken French, English and Google Translate!

 

[rvdborgt]

SNCF have decided to no longer serve a particular market

In Le Figaro, they say it's only temporary:

Pourquoi vous ne pouvez plus réserver certains trajets internationaux sur SNCF Connect

La plateforme cessera de commercialiser les billets de compagnies étrangères à partir du 23 mai. Une mesure «temporaire», le temps de déployer un nouveau système de réservation plus performant, justifie la SNCF.

www.lefigaro.fr

as did Eurostar a while back.

Eurostar have been adding back destinations on the continent, e.g. French TGV stations, and some other countries should follow. Booking from other stations in GB should also be coming back.

 

[Gaelan]

Eurostar have been adding back destinations on the continent, e.g. French TGV stations, and some other countries should follow. Booking from other stations in GB should also be coming back.

Given how long that’s been gone, I’ll believe it when I see it - and same with SNCF’s reduction.

 

[Bungle965]

Of course even when they did do International Ticket Sales they still struggled:

https://x.com/simply_railway/status/1658749129344929795?s=61&t=9JBw8d8CLfySEt-N9P6ohA

 

[AlbertBeale]

Looking at the original LinkedIn post, that emoji is a person shrugging.

And presumably saying "Boof!"

 

[Austriantrain]

According to Austrian media reports, the UIC-developed Open Sales and Distribution Model (OSDM), which supposedly will be able to book Europe-wide, will start in September and within a year should be available to all railways who want to use it. Maybe SNCF is waiting for it?

 

[rvdborgt]

According to Austrian media reports, the UIC-developed Open Sales and Distribution Model (OSDM), which supposedly will be able to book Europe-wide, will start in September and within a year should be available to all railways who want to use it. Maybe SNCF is waiting for it?

OSDM has existed for a few years now. It's a standard, so you can't really say it starts.
Edit: there's no reason to wait for September if they're implementing OSDM. In Sweden, they've already gone live with it. For SNCF it sounds to me like they've missed their deadline for implementing whatever new system they're working on and now their old system has to go offline without having a new one in place yet.

 

[WessexEclectic]

There is one, it's just operated by a company that isn't massively in favour on here

Any clues for those not 'in the know'?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Any clues for those not 'in the know'?

Trainline. (It was mentioned above).

 

[Trainbike46]

Crazy how international ticketing continues to become more fragmented! Pre-Covid SNCF were selling tickets as far as Moscow, now it appears only DB and OEBB are interested in continuing cross-Europe ticketing. Really the EU should have introduced one central system years ago.

NS international is a pretty good booking engine too - it's better than the SNCF one for sure, and I find it easier to use than DB or OEBB, but those latter two do offer more functionality at times

SNCF have decided to no longer serve a particular market - as did Eurostar a while back. I don't remember a hue and cry when the latter did this. Perhaps SNCF have decided the hassle isn't worth the bother. Sadly, I detect a soupcon of anti-French bias one occasionally detects.

I'm personally not a fan of SNCF making international train travel more difficult, when really we should be making it easier - nothing to do with them being French

Any clues for those not 'in the know'?

It's The Trainline

 

[DanielB]

NS international is a pretty good booking engine too - it's better than the SNCF one for sure, and I find it easier to use than DB or OEBB, but those latter two do offer more functionality at times

Surprising to read, the general opinion here in the Netherlands is that the booking system of NSI is not that great regarding options (little choice to tweak your trip). But it's obviously better than SNCF yes.
DB certainly has it's downsides as well, especially the inability to book reservation only for some trains with mandatory reservations (it refuses to do so for DE <> NL, but does work for AT <> DE). That's creating the odd situation that you're travelling in a red and white DB train, but need to reserve either via NS or via OeBB (the latter luckily now also being able to do so for Amsterdam - Berlin).

 

[WessexEclectic]

Trainline. (It was mentioned above).

It's The Trainline

Thanks. Was worried it was one I use...

 

[Starmill]

No different to what SNCF will sell you. The through TCV tickets are pretty much not a thing any more, and even when they were they were quite costly at times.

The EU really needs to fix that aspect (but won't, as SNCF etc are too powerful a lobby) but in the meantime the only fix for it is insurance.

A partial fix is Interrail/Eurrail, but obviously that's only relevant to those doing a few day's travel, not just one single or round trip.

Trainline, Rail Europe, Omio etc all options for being sold a split.