Do you think that the UK switching to electric vehicles is realistic?

[Mawkie]

Mercedes are doubling down on SUVs, because that is what the market wants.

All car companies are doubling down on SUVs because that's what makes them the most profit.

 

[Roast Veg]

I'm not sure how you will have EV pickups and Landies without needing a truck driving licence for weight limits either.

An electric Kei truck could have a perfectly large truck bed for commercial applications. A few German EV startups have demonstrated the concept already, but have not received adequate funding to reach mass production. If Toyota wasn't so anti-EV, we might have them on the road already.

All car companies are doubling down on SUVs because that's what makes them the most profit.

Indeed. Many people balking at EV prices haven't bought a new car since the SUV-pocalypse.

 

[Snow1964]

Latest car sales data from SMMT
now over 1 in 6 new cars is pure electric, or over 1 in 4 if include plug in hybrid (PHEV)

May 24 : 26,031 electric cars, 17.6% of new cars
Year to date : 133,062 electric cars, 16.1% of new cars

May 24: 11,866 PHEV (plug in hybrid) 8.0%

Also perhaps shouldn't forget some delivery vans are now electric

May 24 : 1077 LCV (vans and pickups) 4.2% of new
Year to date : 6877 LCV 4.8%

UK Vehicle Data | Automotive Industry Data and Statistics | SMMT

Explore SMMT for the latest UK vehicle data and automotive industry statistics. Get key insights on the latest trends and analysis in the automotive industry.

www.smmt.co.uk

So in first 5 months of 2024 have over 200,000 extra cars that can be plugged in.

 

[The Ham]

Latest car sales data from SMMT
now over 1 in 6 new cars is pure electric, or over 1 in 4 if include plug in hybrid (PHEV)

May 24 : 26,031 electric cars, 17.6% of new cars
Year to date : 133,062 electric cars, 16.1% of new cars

May 24: 11,866 PHEV (plug in hybrid) 8.0%

Also perhaps shouldn't forget some delivery vans are now electric

May 24 : 1077 LCV (vans and pickups) 4.2% of new
Year to date : 6877 LCV 4.8%

UK Vehicle Data | Automotive Industry Data and Statistics | SMMT

Explore SMMT for the latest UK vehicle data and automotive industry statistics. Get key insights on the latest trends and analysis in the automotive industry.

www.smmt.co.uk

So in first 5 months of 2024 have over 200,000 extra cars that can be plugged in.

Also I think this maybe the first month where both pure diesel and petrol vehicles have seen a fall in their numbers where there was an increase in the total number of vehicles sold.

 

[E27007]

Latest car sales data from SMMT
now over 1 in 6 new cars is pure electric, or over 1 in 4 if include plug in hybrid (PHEV)

May 24 : 26,031 electric cars, 17.6% of new cars
Year to date : 133,062 electric cars, 16.1% of new cars

May 24: 11,866 PHEV (plug in hybrid) 8.0%

Also perhaps shouldn't forget some delivery vans are now electric

May 24 : 1077 LCV (vans and pickups) 4.2% of new
Year to date : 6877 LCV 4.8%

UK Vehicle Data | Automotive Industry Data and Statistics | SMMT

Explore SMMT for the latest UK vehicle data and automotive industry statistics. Get key insights on the latest trends and analysis in the automotive industry.

www.smmt.co.uk

So in first 5 months of 2024 have over 200,000 extra cars that can be plugged in.

The figures of 16.1% and 17.6% are under-target, the ZEV target for 2024 is 22% by Act of Parliament, a shortfall attracts penalty charges.
To meet the target of 22% for 2024, ZEV sales need to be around 27% for the remainder of 2024.
The target for 2025 rises to 28%, the car makers clearly are having an uphill struggle to satisfy the ZEV Mandate Act of Parliament for 2024 and 2025.
Will the carmakers lobby Parliament for a relaxation of the ZEV mandate?

 

[Bald Rick]

Will the carmakers lobby Parliament for a relaxation of the ZEV mandate?

They seem to be lobbying for a reduction in VAT on EVs and on non domestic charging, and also easement of the ‘luxury car’ tax for EVs above £40k.

 

[paul1609]

They seem to be lobbying for a reduction in VAT on EVs and on non domestic charging, and also essement of the ‘luxury car’ tax for EVs above £40k.

The base rates for an HHM connection at my heritage railways loco works is now just under 21p/Kwh, if the EV charger rates are around 80p/Kwh it suggests to me that 20% vice 5% VAT on the electricity element isnt the real issue.

 

[The Ham]

The figures of 16.1% and 17.6% are under-target, the ZEV target for 2024 is 22% by Act of Parliament, a shortfall attracts penalty charges.
To meet the target of 22% for 2024, ZEV sales need to be around 27% for the remainder of 2024.
The target for 2025 rises to 28%, the car makers clearly are having an uphill struggle to satisfy the ZEV Mandate Act of Parliament for 2024 and 2025.
Will the carmakers lobby Parliament for a relaxation of the ZEV mandate?

There's some flexibility in those targets, in that sales to Car Clubs count as 1.5 and they can carry forward lower sales to future years, as such it's not as bad as it could be.

 

[jon0844]

Let's see what happens when the new Dacia Spring, the Citroën e-C3, the new Mini and Renault 5 enter the market. The latter two are still quite expensive but will likely still do well because of what they are.

 

[Noddy]

The figures of 16.1% and 17.6% are under-target, the ZEV target for 2024 is 22% by Act of Parliament, a shortfall attracts penalty charges.
To meet the target of 22% for 2024, ZEV sales need to be around 27% for the remainder of 2024.
The target for 2025 rises to 28%, the car makers clearly are having an uphill struggle to satisfy the ZEV Mandate Act of Parliament for 2024 and 2025.
Will the carmakers lobby Parliament for a relaxation of the ZEV mandate?

We’ve been through this already (eg post 3148) - manufacturers won’t be paying fines but will bank their allowances from later years or trade with other manufacturers which are selling more than 22% (such as Tesla or BYD which are already at 100%).



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Interesting article spotted on another forum about a regional delivery firm in the M25 area buying two BEV lorry’s. Charged overnight using 43kw AC chargers which will be fairly low cost to install, and seems like it’s been pretty successful and popular with the drivers. It will be interesting to see how quickly they fully transition to a full BEV fleet. It worries me that it blows the some of the environmental benefits of rail freight out of the water.

New Volvo FM Electrics Suit M25 Deliveries

South-East based Lenham Storage has put its first zero-tailpipe emission trucks into operation, having taken delivery of two new Volvo FM Electric 4×2 tractor units. The addition of the electric trucks marks the next step on the road for the forward-thinking, family-owned business’...

www.truckpages.co.uk

South-East based Lenham Storage has put its first zero-tailpipe emission trucks into operation, having taken delivery of two new Volvo FM Electric 4×2 tractor units. The addition of the electric trucks marks the next step on the road for the forward-thinking, family-owned business’ sustainability drive.

Supplied by Steve Moon, Truck Sales Director at MC Truck & Bus, the new additions join the fleet following a successful trial with a demonstrator vehicle, which highlighted how electric-powered trucks could fit seamlessly into Lenham Storage’s operations in and around London.

Andrew Fulcher, Transport Operations Director at Lenham Storage, says: “As a business, we have always tried to be at the forefront of the latest trends and technologies when it comes to greener alternative fuels.

“Many of our customers operate in the food and retail sectors, with ambitious targets in terms of cutting carbon emissions across their supply-chain, which ties in well with our own strategy and ethos. We are already running two Volvo FH gas-powered tractor units and are very happy to have taken the next step with these electric FMs.”

The new trucks – sporting Lenham Storage’s eye-catching blue and red livery – have hit the ground running, carrying out multi-drop deliveries mainly inside the M25 as part of the business’ core ambient grocery and FMCG work.

THE VOLVO FM ELECTRIC SPECIFICATION
Powered by three electrical motors which generate 666 hp and 2,400 Nm of continuous torque, each FM Electric is equipped with the maximum six batteries, giving a driving range of approximately 300 km. An onboard electromobility traction control system helps manage output on slippery surfaces, while different drive modes are available to set the desired performance, comfort, and energy usage levels.

Volvo’s standard I-Shift gearbox delivers a smooth driving experience by constantly evaluating information about speed, weight, road grade and torque demand.

The FMs – which meet Transport for London’s three-star Direct Vision Standard (DVS) rating – work throughout the day before returning to Lenham Storage’s Maidstone depot to charge overnight on a 43kW AC charger.

A full Volvo Gold contract guarantees maximum uptime and covers all maintenance and repairs, including proactive monitoring of batteries and associated components.

“The response we’ve had from our drivers has been really positive,” adds Fulcher. “One of the guys has been with us for 23 years and he said the main thing he noticed when getting back in a diesel, after a few days driving the electric, was the noise and vibrations. It’s obviously a big change but the electrics are very nice to drive.

“Overall, we’re very happy with how they have settled in. The range is delivering everything we were promised so far, and they are returning to the depot with plenty of life left in the battery. We’re keen to push them even further too with some more general haulage work.”

Family-owned Lenham Storage was established in 1946. Today it operates a fleet of around 260 trucks and trailers from its two main sites in Maidstone and Andover, providing BRCGS AA* certified storage and logistics services for a wide range of customers within the ambient food sector.

 

[Snow1964]

Let's see what happens when the new Dacia Spring, the Citroën e-C3, the new Mini and Renault 5 enter the market. The latter two are still quite expensive but will likely still do well because of what they are.

I think it is also possible to get brand new BYD Dolphin, Fiat 500, MG4 and Nissan Leaf under £30k.

And a few more types if you include various offers / discounts and incentives.

But I agree with the earlier comments that many manufacturers have only been concentrating on top end SUVs as they are very profitable. And until about now not really done anything electric for third of UK car owners that drive super minis

 

[jon0844]

I think it is also possible to get brand new BYD Dolphin, Fiat 500, MG4 and Nissan Leaf under £30k.

Oh absolutely. The Dolphin is an awful lot of car for the money, but still likely perceived as expensive by many (people who seem unaware of just how expensive ICE cars are now, unless you're buying a bog-standard 1-1.2 litre petrol model).

Some of those are more C-segment cars though, and I think we need more small cars. They'll be ideal for city dwellers, but with a range or charging speed that makes it possible still for the occasional long journey.

 

[E27007]

A BBC article, the entry of low-cost Chinese-brand ZEVs sold in high volume into the UK, Europe , USA, could be an extinction-level event for many carmakers

Low-cost ZEVs from China threaten many car manufacturers

The dilemma is between needing those competitively-priced Chinese ZEVs to meet the zero-target, and the contraction or even demise of a number of car makers

 

[renegademaster]

A BBC article, the entry of low-cost Chinese-brand ZEVs sold in high volume into the UK, Europe , USA, could be an extinction-level event for many carmakers

That the government is forcing manufactures to subsidise them via EV Quota trading isn't helping either

 

[8A Rail]

Well I'm due to collect my new car hopefully my the end of the month and yes it is an electric one too! I have had Volvo's since 2007 and with the exception of one, all been traditional cars (mainly estates, currently V60) with the 'one' being a XC40 (SUV) which I handed back after 11 months! SUV's and me are not compatible! So I did initially consider Volvo's new XE30 (electric small SUV) but decided against it, not if there was anything wrong with XE30 but it was still as SUV in my opinion and sadly Volvo have stopped producing traditional cars, so there ended my relationship with them! This left me to look round for alternatives (especially electric) and to be honest there is limited choice if you want a non SUV!

Anyway, cut a long story short, I learnt early on, to consider an electric car, you need to have a very open mind and not consider like for like with traditional petrol / diesel cars but look on what an electric car car offer for your personal requirements. This led me to conclude an electric car is very doable, so why not. Anyway, manage to go for a Cupra Born (V2), with 0% interest and free home charger (including fitting) and compared with the offer for the Volvo XE30 (more expensive), it was a better car to suit my needs and driving style.

Again to consider an electric car, you must have an open mind and also prepare to have a different mind set in the day today running of an electric car. I suspect once you do that, then having an electric car becomes the 'normal' everyday thing. Interesting few months a head of me I think but I look forward to it.

 

[Enthusiast]

A BBC article, the entry of low-cost Chinese-brand ZEVs sold in high volume into the UK, Europe , USA, could be an extinction-level event for many carmakers

Low-cost ZEVs from China threaten many car manufacturers

The dilemma is between needing those competitively-priced Chinese ZEVs to meet the zero-target, and the contraction or even demise of a number of car makers

Indeed. As I outlined in post #3155.

 

[RailWonderer]

That the government is forcing manufactures to subsidise them via EV Quota trading isn't helping either

They should take a leaf out of the US's book and apply heavy tarrifs to those Chinese EVs. Protectionism is important to make sure our vehicles are competitive and the manufacturers are able to keep up the R&D. The alternative is you see a fall in sales and have less to invest in R&D and become less competitive and then you have a vicious cycle.

 

[Noddy]

Well I'm due to collect my new car hopefully my the end of the month and yes it is an electric one too! I have had Volvo's since 2007 and with the exception of one, all been traditional cars (mainly estates, currently V60) with the 'one' being a XC40 (SUV) which I handed back after 11 months! SUV's and me are not compatible! So I did initially consider Volvo's new XE30 (electric small SUV) but decided against it, not if there was anything wrong with XE30 but it was still as SUV in my opinion and sadly Volvo have stopped producing traditional cars, so there ended my relationship with them! This left me to look round for alternatives (especially electric) and to be honest there is limited choice if you want a non SUV!

Anyway, cut a long story short, I learnt early on, to consider an electric car, you need to have a very open mind and not consider like for like with traditional petrol / diesel cars but look on what an electric car car offer for your personal requirements. This led me to conclude an electric car is very doable, so why not. Anyway, manage to go for a Cupra Born (V2), with 0% interest and free home charger (including fitting) and compared with the offer for the Volvo XE30 (more expensive), it was a better car to suit my needs and driving style.

Again to consider an electric car, you must have an open mind and also prepare to have a different mind set in the day today running of an electric car. I suspect once you do that, then having an electric car becomes the 'normal' everyday thing. Interesting few months a head of me I think but I look forward to it.

I’ve got a Born, it’s a brilliant car. As you have got home charging you absolutely won’t regret it. Do make sure you get a cheap EV tariff for your leccy (get a smart meter installed if you haven’t already).

If you’re only going to be publicly charging occasionally make sure you get an Octopus Electroverse card-even if you don’t sign up to an Octopus tariff it still gives discounts to certain providers at certain times and is compatible with most (but not all) of the major providers working as a ‘kind of one card to rule them all’, and will save you getting a load of unnecessary Apps/RFID cards. If you do a lot of long distance travelling and think you might be publically charging more often you may want to look into getting a subscription service-you pay a monthly fee, but pay a reduced fee for each charge.

Enjoy your new Born!

 

[Roast Veg]

They should take a leaf out of the US's book and apply heavy tarrifs to those Chinese EVs. Protectionism is important to make sure our vehicles are competitive and the manufacturers are able to keep up the R&D. The alternative is you see a fall in sales and have less to invest in R&D and become less competitive and then you have a vicious cycle.

We don't have a car manufacturing economy to protect, unless you want everyone to buy from Jaguar Land Rover...

 

[MotCO]

We don't have a car manufacturing economy to protect, unless you want everyone to buy from Jaguar Land Rover...

Nissan, Toyota, Mini, Vauxhall vans, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Lotus, LEVC, Aston Martin, Morgan, Caterham, McLaren .......

 

[jon0844]

They should take a leaf out of the US's book and apply heavy tarrifs to those Chinese EVs. Protectionism is important to make sure our vehicles are competitive and the manufacturers are able to keep up the R&D. The alternative is you see a fall in sales and have less to invest in R&D and become less competitive and then you have a vicious cycle.

Volvo has decided to speed up its switch to building the EX30 in Belgium (this year instead of next), so I wonder if the Chinese companies are expecting the EU to take more action against Chinese EV makers.

I guess if they slap import duty on car makers like BYD, suddenly the non-Chinese cars will appear to be better value. One might assume that they'll also feel less need to compete and prices will actually go up across the board.

 

[Harpers Tate]

One might assume that they'll also feel less need to compete and prices will actually go up across the board.

If they see an opportunity to squeeze more money out of us, of course they will. And that is the issue with penal tariffs on the far east. There ceases to be any motivation to "do better". The UK/EU manufacturers need, instead, to "get their act together" and stop all thought of profiteering to compete. At least until they are properly established in this market such that they "own" it.

 

[renegademaster]

instead, to "get their act together"

British minimum wage would have to be reduced to that of China, or basically 100% automation across the supply chain, for our car industry to hold on with no protectionism. Same applies for the EU

 

[8A Rail]

I’ve got a Born, it’s a brilliant car. As you have got home charging you absolutely won’t regret it. Do make sure you get a cheap EV tariff for your leccy (get a smart meter installed if you haven’t already).

If you’re only going to be publicly charging occasionally make sure you get an Octopus Electroverse card-even if you don’t sign up to an Octopus tariff it still gives discounts to certain providers at certain times and is compatible with most (but not all) of the major providers working as a ‘kind of one card to rule them all’, and will save you getting a load of unnecessary Apps/RFID cards. If you do a lot of long distance travelling and think you might be publically charging more often you may want to look into getting a subscription service-you pay a monthly fee, but pay a reduced fee for each charge.

Enjoy your new Born!

Thank you for your additional thoughts. As it happens, when the home charger is fitted and got car, I will be changing to a smart meter to take advantage of the cheaper overnight EV rate and by co-incidence I am with Octopus anyway. Thank you for mentioning the Octopus Electroverse card, I will apply for one as it may come in handy especially if it saves some money too. No worries about long distance travel, not often it happens so no worries about subscription service. I did forgot to mention, I also get a £750 pre-paid charge card too. My purchase was based on liking the 'Cupra Born' to begin with but with all added extra's, it was a type of deal that I could not walk away from.

 

[trebor79]

British minimum wage would have to be reduced to that of China, or basically 100% automation across the supply chain, for our car industry to hold on with no protectionism. Same applies for the EU

Maybe, maybe not.
But more fundamentally I find myself thinking "so what"? So what if most car production moves east and we don't make cars any more in the west?

 

[778]

Interesting article spotted on another forum about a regional delivery firm in the M25 area buying two BEV lorry’s. Charged overnight using 43kw AC chargers which will be fairly low cost to install, and seems like it’s been pretty successful and popular with the drivers. It will be interesting to see how quickly they fully transition to a full BEV fleet. It worries me that it blows the some of the environmental benefits of rail freight out of the water.

I don't think regional delivery firms are in competition with rail freight. Autonomous lorrys would be more of a problem.

 

[renegademaster]

Maybe, maybe not.
But more fundamentally I find myself thinking "so what"? So what if most car production moves east and we don't make cars any more in the west?

So what if we build our energy sector on cheap Russian gas...

Having all of a particular product dependent on one semi hostile state is never really a good idea

 

[trebor79]

So what if we build our energy sector on cheap Russian gas...

Having all of a particular product dependent on one semi hostile state is never really a good idea

Agree. But protectionist tariffs aren't the way to deal with that.

 

[MotCO]

Maybe, maybe not.
But more fundamentally I find myself thinking "so what"? So what if most car production moves east and we don't make cars any more in the west?

A country's economy is based on making things to sell, whether it is agriculture produce, manufactured goods or service industries. If you decimate part of the west's manufacturing output, what do you replace it with to avoid significant unemployment (in both car factories and in the supply chains)?

The fact that China can make electric cars cheaply is due to either:

• low costs including low wage rates and energy costs
• government subsidisation
• monopoly on raw materials for batteries

If government subsidy is a key element, then it is fair to introduce tarifs to level up the playing field. The other factors could have resulted from government policies (high employment taxes, high corporation tax, high energy costs) or from the industry being asleep at the wheel for not spotting the trends towards electric vehicles. Whether these factors should lead to tariffs is debateable.

 

[Roast Veg]

Nissan, Toyota, Mini, Vauxhall vans, Rolls Royce, Bentley, Lotus, LEVC, Aston Martin, Morgan, Caterham, McLaren .......

Luxury and sports cars are not competing with Chinese EVs, nor are vans, nor are taxis. Toyota aren't making EVs in the UK, nor are they making very many globally. That just leaves the domestically produced Nissan Leafs at Sunderland. By my reckoning, that isn't a very large industry.