Southeastern Prosecutors Letter

[king147]

Hi Everyone,

Please, I need your advice. On the 8th of May 2024, I traveled overnight by bus from Edinburgh to London Victoria. Proceeding with my journey to Chatham, I checked Google Maps, and it advised me to get a train ticket from London Victoria to Bromley South, and from Bromley South to get another one going to Chatham.

To cut a long story short, I dozed off on the train, and it had already passed Bromley South and was at Rochester when I woke up. Immediately, I purchased another ticket from Rochester to Chatham. Upon arriving at Chatham, as I was about to pass the barricade, an officer stopped me and started questioning me. I explained the situation, but I guess she wasn’t understanding me well due to a communication barrier (I am a foreigner studying in the UK).

Yesterday, I received a letter from the Southeastern prosecutor asking for my NI, address, and occupation, and they want me to write about the incident and mail it back to them. I am just so worried as I don’t know what is coming next. I do not want to go to court, as I do not want anything criminal on my record. Please advise me on what to do because this is really troubling me. I am a student who just completed my MBA and will be graduating in a few days.

I want to know if the next letter coming will be for a fine; I’m okay with that. I don’t want any court case.

Thank you.

 

[AlterEgo]

Why didn't you just buy a ticket to Chatham in the first place? Why did you board the second train at Bromley South without a ticket? Am I missing something?

 

[notmyrealname]

Hi.

I expect the experts will be here to advise you a bit later.

In the meantime, I notice that you have left the reference number showing on Southeastern's letter. It would be a good idea to cover that up for privacy, also to change your postcode for a more general location like Edinburgh, possibly.

 

[king147]

I just did follow what the Google map said. That was my first time i Chatham. I just came to renew my international passport.

thank you for your response.

 

[king147]

Hi.

I expect the experts will be here to advise you a bit later. In the meantime, it would be a good idea to cover up the reference number on

In the meantime, I notice that you have left the reference number showing on Southeastern's letter. It would be a good idea to cover that up for privacy, also to change your postcode for a more general location like Edinburgh, possibly.

Thank you so much, i just did that.

 

[AlterEgo]

I just did follow what the Google map said. That was my first time i Chatham. I just came to renew my international passport.

thank you for your response.

Sure, so I don’t understand why you didn’t buy a ticket to Chatham. Why did you just get on the second train without a ticket? Southeastern will want an explanation as to why. “I was following Google Maps” doesn’t explain why you got on board without a ticket.

 

[king147]

Sure, so I don’t understand why you didn’t buy a ticket to Chatham. Why did you just get on the second train without a ticket? Southeastern will want an explanation as to why. “I was following Google Maps” doesn’t explain why you got on board without a ticket.

It was the same train, i didnt join no new train, when i did checked it says the same train will take me to Chatham.
That was when i did purchase the second ticket.

 

[FenMan]

I had no idea the UK's bureaucracy compels people in Edinburgh to travel to Chatham in Kent to "renew" an "international passport".

Perhaps I've lived a sheltered life.

 

[king147]

Yes, I am not British. The only immigration office for renewing our passport is located in London.

 

[furlong]

Can you post a screenshot of Google Maps showing you the instructions you were following? (Reproduce it for a day in the future if you didn't keep a copy.)

 

[Grvrdvicdr]

Can you upload a picture of the Chatham ticket? You’ve uploaded 2 of the same one

 

[Haywain]

Can you post a screenshot of Google Maps showing you the instructions you were following? (Reproduce it for a day in the future if you didn't keep a copy.)

I can't see how that will help explaining not having a ticket between Bromley South and Rochester.

 

[John R]

I can't see how that will help explaining not having a ticket between Bromley South and Rochester.

Agree it’s irrelevant. Whilst Google would certainly not be my go to for ticketing recommendations, the fact is that the OP says that they were asleep at the point they needed to purchase the second ticket, and subsequently bought a short ticket for the second part of their journey. Our advice needs to focus on that.

 

[AlterEgo]

OK, so as I understand it, the OP didn't buy a through ticket to Chatham for whatever reason, and was under the impression they had to change trains at Bromley South and buy a new ticket there for an onward journey to Chatham.

The Google Maps instructions are not relevant. The OP failed in any case to pay the proper fare and knew they were failing to pay the proper fare by buying a short ticket from Rochester.

Ultimately it is best to simply write back to Southeastern, apologising for travelling without a valid ticket, and offering to settle the matter out of court.

 

[30907]

Slightly OT: it appears (to my surprise) that Google offers links to various online retailers (Trainline/Trainpal on the route I tested).
I can't get that to work for the OP's route, so can't see what they were offered, but a look at BRFares suggests that the Bromley S split saves nothing (our own site finds a St Mary Cray split which works!) - the OP might have cause to complain to the retailer, but that doesn't alter the fact that they didn't have a valid ticket for most of their journey.

 

[Grvrdvicdr]

I can't see how that will help explaining not having a ticket between Bromley South and Rochester.

To see the ticket reference number. If it’s the same reference as the VIC-BMS ticket then it would show that they was purchased at the same time. To gather a fuller picture as this may end up being a case of slightly bending the truth…

 

[Haywain]

To see the ticket reference number. If it’s the same reference as the VIC-BMS ticket then it would show that they was purchased at the same time. To gather a fuller picture as this may end up being a case of slightly bending the truth…

The OP has already informed us that the tickets were not bought at the same time (and I can see no reason why the OP would bend the truth in a way that is to their disadvantage):

it advised me to get a train ticket from London Victoria to Bromley South, and from Bromley South to get another one going to Chatham.

To cut a long story short, I dozed off on the train, and it had already passed Bromley South and was at Rochester when I woke up. Immediately, I purchased another ticket from Rochester to Chatham.

 

[Grvrdvicdr]

To see the ticket reference number. If it’s the same reference as the VIC-BMS ticket then it would show that they was purchased at the same time. To gather a fuller picture as this may end up being a case of slightly bending the truth…

*if purchased at the same time then it would be more evident as fare evasion than just some how not having a ticket to cover the journey but instead a very popular purchased one for short ticketing

The OP has already informed us that the tickets were not bought at the same time:

Always better to have the full picture by seeing what’s available. Plenty of time on this forum one thing is said and after 50 posts it turns out something else transpired. Even if it’s just to eliminate the wonder

 

[Haywain]

if purchased at the same time then it would be more evident as fare evasion than just some how not having a ticket to cover the journey but instead a very popular purchased one for short ticketing

Southeastern simply won't be interested in such detail, and it won't offer a defence.

 

[Grvrdvicdr]

Southeastern simply won't be interested in such detail, and it won't offer a defence.

You will be very surprised, in my rpo days with Se looking at booking references became everyday to see who was giving us the run around. But if advice is being offered to someone wouldn’t you want to know as much as you can about it in order to better advise?

Either way up to OP to decide if he wants to provide it..

 

[AlterEgo]

Southeastern simply won't be interested in such detail, and it won't offer a defence.

I tend to agree. We rarely see SE bother much about anything else than just recovering the full fare due. This is quite an elementary instance of fare evasion and will almost certainly be settled with minimal fuss.

 

[John R]

You will be very surprised, in my rpo days with Se looking at booking references became everyday to see who was giving us the run around. But if advice is being offered to someone wouldn’t you want to know as much as you can about it in order to better advise?

Either way up to OP to decide if he wants to provide it..

As others have said, all that matters as far as the OP is concerned is that they were caught without a valid ticket for their journey. Whether you believe their story that they fell asleep and then purchased a short fare, or surmise that they bought both tickets at the same time, (so proving intent to short fare from the outset), is completely immaterial to the advice given. SE will treat the case in exactly the same way.

 

[Argyle 1980]

In future if you want to split tickets to save a couple of quid and not pay the fees splitting sites charge and you know exactly where your splits are, the the GWR site (not app) has a basket function where you can add multiple journeys into one transaction and under one booking reference. It's also handy if you buy in advance and want a refund as it's under one booking and you only pay one £10 admin fee.

 

[furlong]

The Google Maps instructions are not relevant.

They are very relevant if this explanation was given to Southeastern and they found it implausible. I couldn't reproduce it with the current timetable and fares and it seems neither could 30907. Better not to mention it at all in the response if it appears implausible and there's no evidence to back it up.

 

[Mzzzs]

I checked google maps, starting at Victoria coach station at 7 getting on the 0712 to Chatham at no point it said to change however this I am doing this over a month from the date so this could have been different on the day but i very much doubt you had to change.

 

[duncombec]

May 7th was a strike day, but I can't see any disruption on SouthEastern's twitter to suggest there were issues on the morning of the 8th. Also unusual that the OP took the 0712 stopper, rather than the 0710 semi-fast, which would have saved 20 minutes on the journey time to Chatham. There is (now) an 0712 to Orpington, that would necessitate a change at Bromley South, but again, doesn't explain why that option would show over the two direct services.

Otherwise, agreeing with the confusion expressed elsewhere as to why the second ticket was from Rochester to Chatham - as the next stop down the line, and a journey time of 2-3 minutes at most, this does have "buy a ticket to get through the ticket barriers" written all over it from the point of view of Revenue protection or gateline staff - especially when the rail fare is £4 and the bus fare (from directly outside Rochester station) is currently only £2 (and the journey time is only 6 minutes).

Obviously we don't know in this case whether it was a formal revenue protection stop, or just the gateline staff, but it is no longer uncommon to see a full scale revenue protection block at Chatham at any time of the day.

 

[30907]

May 7th was a strike day, but I can't see any disruption on SouthEastern's twitter to suggest there were issues on the morning of the 8th. Also unusual that the OP took the 0712 stopper, rather than the 0710 semi-fast, which would have saved 20 minutes on the journey time to Chatham. There is (now) an 0712 to Orpington, that would necessitate a change at Bromley South, but again, doesn't explain why that option would show over the two direct services.

There was/is also an 0712 Gillingham stopper, which fits with the OP's ticket (the Orpington doesn't) and would allow the St Mary Cray split I mentioned in post #15 - but a BMS split would have worked on the faster 0710, so the puzzle remains (but I am not sure it helps the OP).