trentbarton discussion

[zakky1.0]

Yutong YD24EUD is currently in the TB depot at Meadow Road…

Scroll up & you’ll see it’s already been discussed.

 

[Deerfold]

I thought councils had to pay bus operators for all concessions on registered local bus services.

There's various exceptions that councils can argue to say it shouldn't be paid. In this instance it is that it is a "Premium service" and all journeys can be made on slower, less high-spec vehicles..

 

[Trainman40083]

There's various exceptions that councils can argue to say it shouldn't be paid. In this instance it is that it is a "Premium service" and all journeys can be made on slower, less high-spec vehicles..

And of course if ENCTS passengers want to use it, they can, by paying full fare.

 

[Deerfold]

Not defined as a local bus service

The Red Arrow is registered as a local bus service. I don't know why the link to the registration below says "Pardon Our Interruption".

Pardon Our Interruption

 

[Skymonster]

It was indeed. It's still out but no longer tracking

It was in the workshop / servicing shed this evening - maybe TB has broken it!

 

[ChrisC]

And of course if ENCTS passengers want to use it, they can, by paying full fare.

This is something that I almost always do when travelling between Nottingham and Derby, and well worth paying for the shorter journey time too. Even though I now have an ENCTS pass I still keep some money in my Mango account for this.

 

[Pigalle]

The Red Arrow is registered as a local bus service.

From Nottingham City Council bulletin here:

Nottingham City Council Red Arrow Concessionary Pass Changes

Updated: Red Arrow Concessionary Pass Changes​

Nottingham City Council sent this bulletin at 24-03-2016 01:33 PM GMT

​

​ Transport Nottingham - Red Arrow concessionary pass changes special edition | Having trouble viewing this email? View it as a Web page.​ Like, Follow & Share!​ Free travel for concessionary card holders will cease on the Trent Barton Red Arrow service from Nottingham to Derby on April 1.​ Under the terms of the national concessionary card travel scheme, the red arrow service was available to all national concessionary card holders and not just Nottingham City Council Tax payers. In the current financial circumstances, this has become unaffordable. Over 2016/17 Nottingham City Council is required to make savings of £20.5 million. To manage this, the council has had to make some difficult decisions to create savings, including the end of free travel on this bus service for English National Concessionary Travel pass holders. The service will still run as normal and concessionary card holders will still be able to travel for free on the service from Derby to Nottingham. Concessionary card holders will still be able to enjoy free bus travel from Nottingham to Derby, by choosing to use other frequent services such as the indigo and i4 operated by Trent Barton and the Y5 service run by Yourbus. Trent Barton are also offering concessionary pass holders a 20% discount on the standard £5 single fare to Derby from Nottingham – it will be reduced to £4. This change to service provides the City Council estimated savings of up to £80,000 a year which will then help continue to run existing subsidised services such as the Locallink buses, which help support the local community. Councillor Nick McDonald, Portfolio Holder for Jobs, Growth and Transport at Nottingham City Council, said: “Our Government grant has halved over the last three years leaving us with some very tough decisions about how we continue to provide services to the public. The Nottingham to Derby red arrow service is no longer affordable and this decision will make savings which will enable us to maintain our local community services that provide vital links to our residents including the elderly and those with mobility issues. We remain committed to doing what we can to protect services that are a priority for our citizens.”​

From the Derby City Council website:

https://www.derby.gov.uk/transport-and-streets/public-transport/concessionary-fares-consultation/#:~:text=It was agreed that the,Red Arrow will be chargeable.

Concessionary Fares Consultation​

Removal of travel concessions on Red Arrow​

The Red Arrow bus service to Nottingham and X38 bus service to Burton were both identified as services that could be excluded from the national concessionary travel scheme. Our view is that both these services fall outside the Government’s definition of a local bus service and operate as express inter city-style services. Other bus services providing travel to Nottingham and Burton exist.
Following a consultation exercise with bus users, a full report was taken to Council Cabinet on 15th March 2017.
It was agreed that the Red Arrow bus service would be excluded from the concessionary fares scheme. The last date for passengers to travel for free from Derby to Nottingham using their concessionary card will be Sunday 6th August. After this date, travel on the Red Arrow will be chargeable.
Concessionary card holders can continue to travel between Derby and Nottingham for free on the following services:

Service	Journey time	Bus operator
i4	64 - 69 minutes	Trent Barton
Indigo	85 minutes	Trent Barton
Y5	82 - 87 minutes	Your Bus

Free travel on the X38 between Derby and Burton will continue for concessionary fare holders.

 

[bringiton]

Coach 88 seems to have made an appearance on red arrow. This just leaves one more coach (85) to come back. Looks like the possibility of a full plaxton service is becoming more and more likely.

 

[SrgntSylveon]

Coach 88 seems to have made an appearance on red arrow. This just leaves one more coach (85) to come back. Looks like the possibility of a full plaxton service is becoming more and more likely.

Coach 88 has indeed made an appearance on the Red Arrow, I just so happen to be on it.

 

[Deerfold]

From Nottingham City Council bulletin here:

Nottingham City Council Red Arrow Concessionary Pass Changes




From the Derby City Council website:

https://www.derby.gov.uk/transport-and-streets/public-transport/concessionary-fares-consultation/#:~:text=It was agreed that the,Red Arrow will be chargeable.

I'm not sure what you're trying to show. I'm aware of the history of the Red Arrow and ENTCS acceptance on the route.

If you look at my previous posts you'll see I mentioned why the councils don't pay for it on this route

I'm correcting the assertion that the Red Arrow is not "defined" as a local bus route. It was registered as a local bus route when ENTCS was accepted and is still registered as one, now.

 

[Pigalle]

I'm not sure what you're trying to show. I'm aware of the history of the Red Arrow and ENTCS acceptance on the route.

If you look at my previous posts you'll see I mentioned why the councils don't pay for it on this route

I'm correcting the assertion that the Red Arrow is not "defined" as a local bus route. It was registered as a local bus route when ENTCS was accepted and is still registered as one, now.

The point I am making is that it doesn’t matter how it is registered by Trent Barton as ultimately the local authorities who pay for ENCTS acceptance on the route can determine whether it meets the requirements of an eligible local service under ENCTS. In this case neither local authority has decided it is a local service for ENCTS purposes presumably because they see the Red Arrow as a service where the fare charged by the operator has a special amenity element. In such cases the service need not be included in the ENCTS scheme.

 

[Deerfold]

The point I am making is that it doesn’t matter how it is registered by Trent Barton as ultimately the local authorities who pay for ENCTS acceptance on the route can determine whether it meets the requirements of an eligible local service under ENCTS. In this case neither local authority has decided it is a local service for ENCTS purposes presumably because they see the Red Arrow as a service where the fare charged by the operator has a special amenity element. In such cases the service need not be included in the ENCTS scheme.

It is a local bus service. However, it's subject to one of the exemptions, as I said before. You appear to be repeatedly telling me things I already know and have discussed in this thread.

I corrected the person who said it wasn't "defined" as a local bus service. It is, in the same way other local services that are not eligible for ENTCS are. However, that isn't the only fact necessary for a service to be eligible.

 

[Mugby]

This morning (Saturday) Solo 492, working a journey on 'The Mickleover' service only got as far as The Wardwick in Derby before breaking down. Fitters were in attendance at 1130.

I then travelled to Matlock on the 'Transpeak' and noted that Versa 844 had expired outside Babbington Hospital, Belper whilst working a 'Sixes' service. Again, fitters were trying to revive it at 1200.

 

[mainframe444]

I then travelled to Matlock on the 'Transpeak' and noted that Versa 844 had expired outside Babbington Hospital, Belper whilst working a 'Sixes' service. Again, fitters were trying to revive it at 1200.

By 13:50 it was on lifters in A garage at Meadow Road….

 

[Trainman40083]

By 13:50 it was on lifters in A garage at Meadow Road….

There it is, alongside sister 841 being repaired after it's whoopsie. Maybe that is 63 after recovery by CWT from the railway bridge at Willington.

 

[m79900]

By 13:50 it was on lifters in A garage at Meadow Road….

Is that Swift in the corner an ex Villager one? It looks too smart to be an existing one!

 

[mainframe444]

Is that Swift in the corner an ex Villager one? It looks too smart to be an existing one!

The Swift Volvo is 738.

 

[tram21]

The Swift Volvo is 738.

Which is an old one, it must have been smartened up!

 

[Trainman40083]

Which is an old one, it must have been smartened up!

Maybe the bus wash is performing a little better

 

[zakky1.0]

The Swift Volvo is 738.

Are you sure? The panels are very straight…

 

[mainframe444]

Are you sure? The panels are very straight…

It is 738.

I made a particular note of the number as it’s been off the road since June, and I saw it being driven out of service in Nottingham recently, and I wondered if this was 738 now at Derby.

 

[zakky1.0]

It is 738.

I made a particular note of the number as it’s been off the road since June, and I saw it being driven out of service in Nottingham recently, and I wondered if this was 738 now at Derby.

its not 738.

Just asked someone I know at Derby & 738 is awaiting collection at Nottingham. The swift pictured is 702.

 

[43055]

The swift pictured is 702.

They have got that done quick.

 

[m79900]

I reckon it can't be much more than 2 years till the Swift Volvos get replaced to be honest. Probably end up being more Enviros.

 

[Trainman40083]

I reckon it can't be much more than 2 years till the Swift Volvos get replaced to be honest. Probably end up being more Enviros.

Maybe displaced Skylink Derby ones

 

[SSmith2009]

Maybe displaced Skylink Derby ones

Skylink Derby may become electric operated if/when they decide to upgrade it as the main Kinchbus (Loughborough town services + 2 & 9) fleet is due to be replaced with electric buses anyway.

 

[Hyebone]

Skylink Derby may become electric operated if/when they decide to upgrade it as the main Kinchbus (Loughborough town services + 2 & 9) fleet is due to be replaced with electric buses anyway.

Skylink Derby will not be electric for many years. The technology needed to electrify such a high maintenance route just doesn’t exist.

(I spoke to the Skylink Derby team leader on this one)

 

[Trainman40083]

Skylink Derby will not be electric for many years. The technology needed to electrify such a high maintenance route just doesn’t exist.

(I spoke to the Skylink Derby team leader on this one)

Indeed, some of the buses clock up around 500 miles a day, with working 24/7. Not a chance of electric buses with current technology.

 

[mainframe444]

Doh!

Serves me right for relying on my increasingly poor memory….

 

[joieman]

Indeed, some of the buses clock up around 500 miles a day, with working 24/7. Not a chance of electric buses with current technology.

And they did apply for funding for hydrogen buses for the Skylink together with Arriva for electric buses for the 1s and 38, but unlike their other joint bid to electrify the rest of Kinchbus's network and Arriva's 5s and 127, the hydrogen bid wasn't successful. To be fair, operators who did go down the hydrogen route are now having trouble getting enough hydrogen for their buses.