Liverpool Street former connection to Met Line..? How?

[martin2345uk]

I’ve read on here that there was once a mainline connection at Liverpool Street from the GEML to the metropolitan line..? How the hell did that work? Did it go right through what is now the concourse and the underground station? Are there any maps that showed it? I guess it wasn’t there all that long..?

 

[Belperpete]

You are not thinking of the old connection to the East London line are you? That used to be part of the Met.

 

[Benjwri]

I believe platforms 1 and 2 used to run through onto what is now the met line. You can see the curve off the current Met Line that used to run through travelling between Moorgate and Liverpool Street, the wall with turn left with the alignment but then run into a bricked off section.

 

[Magdalia]

I’ve read on here that there was once a mainline connection at Liverpool Street from the GEML to the metropolitan line..? How the hell did that work? Did it go right through what is now the concourse and the underground station? Are there any maps that showed it? I guess it wasn’t there all that long..?

According to Jackson in London's Termini, there were through tracks from platforms 1 and 2 at the GER station from/to the Metropolitan Line somewhere a bit to the west of the Metropolitan station. Metropolitan trains terminated in the GER station for a brief period in 1875 prior to the completion of the Metropolitan station. After that the connection was only used for special workings. Jackson says that the last of these was in 1904, with the connection removed 3 years later.

 

[martin2345uk]

Interesting thanks! So were platforms 1 and 2 where they are today? Or have things been shuffled around a bit?

 

[mr_jrt]

Look very closely at the met tunnel here:


The Crossrail passages cut through the old connecting tunnel. I recall reading it was used as a staff canteen for many years after the tracks were lifted.

Another map showing the tracks:

 

[martin2345uk]

^^ I'm not quite sure what I'm meant to be noticing about the met tunnel here..?

 

[mr_jrt]

That you can see the curve very clearly, which shows you where it was.

 

[martin2345uk]

Would this be it here on the left (approaching Liverpool Street from Moorgate)?

 

[181]

There's an 1895 plan here. It doesn't show the course of any tracks that had anything above them, but I think the connection ran underneath where it says 'High level Roadway', curving round to join the Met/Circle facing west.

Platforms 1 and 2 are still on much the same alignment as they were then, but the buffer stops were moved in the late 1980s rebuilding of the station; I think all buffer stops are now roughly level with where those of the eastern platforms (the bottom of the 1895 plan) always were, although others may know more precisely.

In this picture from 1896, the 'High level Roadway' is where most of the cabs are waiting. The structure remained visible until the 1980s; in this picture from 1988 it appears that it has just been partly demolished and the current west wall of the station is being built on its site.

That you can see the curve very clearly, which shows you where it was.

I'm not sure that it's all that clear until you know what you're looking for, but if you look closely there's a curving light grey structure that's cut through by the passage connecting Crossrail with the main line station at the point where they both pass over the eastbound (actually almost northbound at that point) Central line.

Would this be it here on the left (approaching Liverpool Street from Moorgate)?

I'm not 100% certain, but it seems likely.

 

[stuving]

Wikipedia's entry for the Bishopsgate/Lverpool Street Met line station says this:

Liverpool Street had been designed to integrate with the expanding London Underground network, and served as a new terminus for the Metropolitan Railway (MR) which extended east from Moorgate. From 1874 to 1875, the MR used the Liverpool Street main line station as a terminus; the company opened its own station on 12 July 1875, initially named Bishopsgate. Subsurface platforms 1 and 2 were opened in 1875. A west-facing bay platform, platform 3, was formerly located to the south of platform 2; this was used by terminating Metropolitan line trains from the west. It was in use by 1896, and was still in use in 1974, but was redundant by 1994.

So it was actually useful for a very short period. I have a very low-res copy of Airey's colour map, which has a hint of this link. That map has the Met ending at Moorgate, and being extended to Bishopsgate and Aldgate, while the District still ends at Mansion House.

The link appears much more clearly in a 1906 Railway Clearing House map (from Wikimedia).

 

[martin2345uk]

Thanks a lot all, very interesting for me to see all this! That 1895 plan of the station makes it look like it was basically totally cut in half by those long tracks right in the middle!

 

[swt_passenger]

The NRM have a 1 June 1920 photo showing the lines in place but obstructed:

Prints of Liverpool Street station, Great Eastern Railway. 1 June 1920

Liverpool Street station, Great Eastern Railway. 1 June 1920. Platform number 1. Our beautiful Wall Art and Photo Gifts include Framed Prints, Photo Prints, Poster Prints, Canvas Prints, Jigsaw Puzzles, Metal Prints and so much more #MediaStorehouse

nrm.printstoreonline.com

…then by 13 July 1920 there’s what looks like a publically accessible low level fenced walkway and buffers in place:

Prints of Liverpool Street station, Great Eastern Railway, 13 July 1920

Liverpool Street station, Great Eastern Railway, 13 July 1920. The stairs leading to platform number 1 at Liverpool Street station. Our beautiful Wall Art and Photo Gifts include Framed Prints, Photo Prints, Poster Prints, Canvas Prints, Jigsaw Puzzles, Metal Prints and so much more #MediaStorehouse

nrm.printstoreonline.com

 

[martin2345uk]

Those are great photos of it, thank you! Wonder what you would be looking it if you were in that exact view point today?

 

[Magdalia]

Those are great photos of it, thank you! Wonder what you would be looking it if you were in that exact view point today?

The retaining wall on the right of the lower picture is still there. You could stand on platform 1 or 2, looking towards the buffer stops, and you would see the escalators going up to street level.

That 1895 plan of the station makes it look like it was basically totally cut in half by those long tracks right in the middle!

If you are looking at what's in the top left corner of the 1895 map, that's the LNWR goods shed not the GER passenger station. The 1895 map does not show the tracks in the GER passenger station because they are under the station roof.

 

[Russel]

Would this be it here on the left (approaching Liverpool Street from Moorgate)?
View attachment 162126

That looks more like the access to the disused bay platform at Liverpool Street.

 

[swt_passenger]

Those are great photos of it, thank you! Wonder what you would be looking it if you were in that exact view point today?

I wonder, (having now looked at the photos for a while), if they have been taken specifically to show the before and after view of what must have been a small job to provide reasonably level access. I wondered why that particular height was chosen to cross the tracks, but it’s presumably the same height as the area at the foot of the stairs to P2. In the first photo there’s a pile of what looks like sand on the far end of P1, and in the second photo the area below the stairs is still incomplete, and there’s a wheelbarrow tucked away…

That looks more like the access to the disused bay platform at Liverpool Street.

The disused bay at Liverpool St was on the right in that view, ie behind the westbound platform. It’s all been hidden by new building during the Crossrail alterations.

I found an earlier YouTube cab view from 1989, the bay platform was unusable by then, (I read since 1981), and the curve towards Liverpool St main line was already almost completely hidden from view. At 32m 07s in the video:

 

[181]

Thanks a lot all, very interesting for me to see all this! That 1895 plan of the station makes it look like it was basically totally cut in half by those long tracks right in the middle!

To some extent it still was until the 1980s, although by then I think you could walk round the end of the long platforms; a book on my shelf (The Railway Heritage of Britain by Gordon Biddle and O.S. Nock, 1983) indicates that that became possible during alterations in 1962-64.

Those are great photos of it, thank you! Wonder what you would be looking it if you were in that exact view point today?

Agreed, very interesting photos.

The retaining wall on the right of the lower picture is still there. You could stand on platform 1 or 2, looking towards the buffer stops, and you would see the escalators going up to street level.

Although I think the buffer stops might now be somewhat further away? I'm not sure of the exact relative positions, though. Maybe they're not much further away, as those platforms appear to have been longer to start with than the other low-numbered ones and so presumalbly needed less extension.

If you are looking at what's in the top left corner of the 1895 map, that's the LNWR goods shed not the GER passenger station. The 1895 map does not show the tracks in the GER passenger station because they are under the station roof.

That's correct for the map in post #6, but I think @martin2345uk was refering to this plan: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/...Liverpool_Street_Station_extension_(plan).jpg from the link in post #10.

 

[357]

That looks more like the access to the disused bay platform at Liverpool Street.

The access to the bay is the other side of the tracks. The bay was on the inner rail side and the access to the mainline station is as shown in this image, on the outer rail.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Would this be it here on the left (approaching Liverpool Street from Moorgate)?
View attachment 162126

Yes, that's it.

 

[swt_passenger]

I found a decent photo on Flickr from 1982, although looking to the west, it clearly shows the curve of the early brick buildings at street level, please compare with the OS map extract in post #6 above.

Even by 1982 there were small brick buildings hiding the route of the curve, it would be quite difficult to see from a passing train:

Liverpool Street (Met) by Kevin Lane, on Flickr

Now, Ive found a good description of the route and its history in a Crossrail learning legacy “built heritage” report. They use the name Queen Victoria Tunnel, and there’s a layout on the pdf page 6 and a one page summary of the tunnel’s use on pdf page 31. The last use was apparently in 1907:

3.3 Queen Victoria Tunnel

3.3.1 Background
The Queen Victoria Tunnel formerly known as Great Eastern Railway (GER) Connection Tunnel, was constructed to temporarily connect the Metropolitan line with the GER mainline station in 1870s. The Metropolitan Line extension was being delayed due to the difficulties in work at Liverpool Street, and was also delayed later on because of problems in obtaining delivery of the wrought iron roof girders for their own station at Liverpool Street (originally Bishopsgate). As a result the Metropolitan Railway had to open a temporary connection to the GER first, which was authorised in the company’s act in 1870 (Jackson 1986).

3.3.2 The tunnel Structure The temporary connection tunnel was 3.5 chains (c 70m) in length and curved north, close to the west end of the future metropolitan station, meeting a GER connection. The tunnel diameter was approximately 7.8 m and it had a double track, which emerged at platforms 1 and 2 of the mainline station (Jackson 1986).

[more in original]

https://learninglegacy.crossrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/BHR-report-former-BTH-and-Queen-Victoria-tunnel-C257-MLA-T1-RGN-C101-50001.pdf

 

[martin2345uk]

The retaining wall on the right of the lower picture is still there. You could stand on platform 1 or 2, looking towards the buffer stops, and you would see the escalators going up to street level.

I will have a look next time I am there this week!

 

[MarkyT]

In the early 1980s my Dad worked in BR offices at Liverpool St. On visiting him one day during a school holiday, we went to the station's subterranean staff canteen for lunch and he explained the unusual curved shape and arched roof of the room was due to its location in the old connecting tunnel. This was shortly before the huge Broadgate redevelopment and associated works at Liverpool St station. I don't know if any remnants survive today.

 

[Haywain]

In the 1970s it was very clear where the tracks from platforms 1 and 2 would have gone to connect with the underground, even without the benefit of accessing the canteen (that I have just learned of!). The rebuild of the station has left the features that I remember from those days very difficult to place in the current building.

 

[Gloster]

The London Railway Atlas, Fourth Edition (Brown, Ian Allan, 2015) says that the curve was opened 01-02-1875 with Metropolitan services terminating at Liverpool St Platforms 1 and 2. The Metropolitan services were diverted to their own terminus called Bishopsgate (roughly the present Liverpool St, I think) on 12-07-1875. The connection was last used for through traffic in 1904, the junction was severed in 1907 and the tunnel used as a carriage siding until it was lifted in 1916.

 

[MarkyT]

Crossrail sponsored and published some historical research on the tunnel and the old Broad Street ticket hall:

https://learninglegacy.crossrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/BHR-report-former-BTH-and-Queen-Victoria-tunnel-C257-MLA-T1-RGN-C101-50001.pdf

3.3 Queen Victoria Tunnel
Access to the QVT was not possible for the present work. Only Historical research has been conducted on the structure, although only very limited information was available to MOLA.
3.3.1 Background
The Queen Victoria Tunnel formerly known as Great Eastern Railway (GER) Connection Tunnel, was constructed to temporarily connect the Metropolitan line with the GER mainline station in 1870s. The Metropolitan Line extension was being delayed due to the difficulties in work at Liverpool Street, and was also delayed later on because of problems in obtaining delivery of the wrought iron roof girders for their own station at Liverpool Street (originally Bishopsgate). As a result the Metropolitan Railway had to open a temporary connection to the GER first, which was authorised in the company’s act in 1870 (Jackson 1986).
3.3.2 The tunnel Structue
The temporary connection tunnel was 3.5 chains (c 70m) in length and curved north, close to the west end of the future metropolitan station, meeting a GER connection. The tunnel diameter was approximately 7.8 m and it had a double track, which emerged at platforms 1 and 2 of the mainline station (Jackson 1986).
3.3.3 Usage
A single line track through the tunnel started functioning initially to remove spoil in October 1874. On the 1st of February 1875 Hammersmith & City trains ran through the tunnel to terminate at Liverpool Street GER station and GER and Metropolitan Railway Company were responsible for the cost of staffing and lighting on the two platforms where it emerged. The tunnel was in regular use for little more than 5 months until the opening of the Metropolitan Railway’s own station, Bishopsgate, on the 12th of July 1875. Despite of the station’s unfinished condition, all Metropolitan and Metropolitan District Railway (MDR) trains ran directly into it from that day, and the tunnel was never again used for regular traffic (Jackson 1986). Later, the Metropolitan Railway intended to run their trains through the tunnel to Walthamstow, but due to the initial dispute over the terms of working, the Metropolitan Railway and GER could not agree over the routes for a through service. The Metropolitan Railway wanted to run their trains through to South London via the East London Railway. But GER objected to this, as it would have involved crossing all the approach tracks at Liverpool Street on the level. GER suggested a service through the tunnel to the Chingford branch, or along the main line, and on to the Loughton branch. The two railway companies could not agree on the use of the tunnel, and after 1875 only occasional freight trains, specials or excursions used the connecting line. The tunnel tracks were used for the last time for a Metropolitan excursion from Aylesbury to Yarmouth in 1904. The junction was disconnected later in 1907 and the GER used its end for stock storage for few years. Later GER converted that end to use as a staff canteen and recreation space (Jackson 1986). In the 1970s the canteen was used by employees of various trades, City of London police, Westminster dustmen and street cleaners, even vagrants and was very busy at times in the early morning and shift changing hours. The canteen disappeared with the redevelopment of Broadgate, the building of the new substation, and the emergency exits that take one out to the shopping concourse through a series of passageways and rooms constructed in the old Queen Victoria Tunnel.

 

[swt_passenger]

Crossrail sponsored and published some historical research on the tunnel and the old Broad Street ticket hall:

https://learninglegacy.crossrail.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/BHR-report-former-BTH-and-Queen-Victoria-tunnel-C257-MLA-T1-RGN-C101-50001.pdf

I think you must have found that about the same time I did, but after I edited my post #21 about 25 mins ago it might not have been visible to everyone as edits don’t seem to appear without a refresh of the page. No criticism intended by the way, I guess there’s a few of us been searching for that elusive photo which shows the southern entrance, which would have probably had to have been taken in the 60s…

 

[MarkyT]

I think you must have found that about the same time I did, but after I edited my post #21 about 25 mins ago it might not have been visible to everyone as edits don’t seem to appear without a refresh of the page. No criticism intended by the way, I guess there’s a few of us been searching for that elusive photo which shows the southern entrance, which would have probably had to have been taken in the 60s…

I'd typed my reply some 30 minutes before I clicked post, as I was interrupted by someone at the front door!

 

[stuving]

This, from the OS 1:1250 plan revised 1962, corresponds to the photo in post #21.

The unrevised on from 1951 (also on NLS) is almost the same, but lacks the funny-shaped building behind the pub and the lineside brick shed. So at that date the route to the tunnel would still have been clear and visible.

There is an earlier series of large-scale plans on NLS (1840s-1940s), including one very similar to the 25" one in post #6, which shows the sequence of buildings. As well as that one from 1894/1913, there is one from 1873 showing Broad Street station, but with an empty space east of it cleared for Liverpool Street station to be built. The Metropolitan Railway has reached Moorgate Street station, but there is no sign of it going under Finsbury Circus to Bishopsgate or Liverpool Street stations. And the oldest plan is from 1848-51, when the streets removed to make space for all of those stations were still there. Fenchurch Street station, its approach line, and the branches to goods depots, have just been drawn in on top of the streets.

 

[Russel]

The disused bay at Liverpool St was on the right in that view, ie behind the westbound platform. It’s all been hidden by new building during the Crossrail alterations.

I found an earlier YouTube cab view from 1989, the bay platform was unusable by then, (I read since 1981), and the curve towards Liverpool St main line was already almost completely hidden from view. At 32m 07s in the video:

That old Video 125 cab ride is excellent, I'd forgotten a lot of their older videos are on Youtube, I'll have to watch the full video when I have an hour free!

The access to the bay is the other side of the tracks. The bay was on the inner rail side and the access to the mainline station is as shown in this image, on the outer rail.

Yes you're right, I've used the subsurface underground platforms at Liverpool Street no end of times but never really paid much attention to the layout.