Unclaimed bag unloaded, person arrives too late

[43096]

How does removing the bag and moving it necessarily keep people safe if there’s a bomb in it?

Presumably the HOT protocol* was applied to judge if it was suspicious. If the criteria for HOT are met then there would be a very different response.

*HOT
- Hidden?
- Obviously suspicious?
- Typical?

 

[Llanigraham]

If one is a lone traveller, without a comrade to leave in the seats, is it now safe to go and use a toilet on a train, let alone go and join a slow-moving queue in a buffet-car?

I've never had a problem asking someone in a nearby seat to watch my bags as I go to the buffet or toilet and no-one has ever refused to do so.
I do wonder why more people don't do the same, reading some of the comments here.

 

[TheSel]

If the owner's name was on a luggage tag why on earth didn't they have their mobile number on it too? Would have avoided all this hassle.

May not have owned a mobile phone.

And as @MarkyT pointed out, may have had a hearing impairment,

Surely it is time that every train - better still, every carriage - employed someone fluent in BSL [British Sign Language], in order to make such 'announcements' to those unable to hear what many others take for granted. Until then, equality and inclusivity will never be achieved.

 

[Falcon1200]

Presumably the owner of the bag was nowhere near it when the Conductor noticed it and then made the 3 (three) announcements about it - Where had they gone for all that time?!!

Surely it is time that every train - better still, every carriage - employed someone fluent in BSL [British Sign Language], in order to make such 'announcements' to those unable to hear what many others take for granted.

Seriously?

 

[Haywain]

Presumably the owner of the bag was nowhere near it when the Conductor noticed it and then made the 3 (three) announcements about it - Where had they gone for all that time?!!

And that was announcements by name, which should be more noticeable.

 

[Efini92]

Presumably the owner of the bag was nowhere near it when the Conductor noticed it and then made the 3 (three) announcements about it - Where had they gone for all that time?!!



Seriously?

I would like to see how it’s implemented

 

[43066]

Yesterday on a cross country service whilst sat in the platform at Reading the train manager did 3 announcements saying we have an unattended bag in coach F with a luggage tag on it, if your name is (what was on the tag) or if you have a bag in coach f please come down to the coach.
Exiting at Oxford, the person whose bag it was, was trying to locate their bag only to be told it was offloaded at Reading.
Should always listen to announcements.

The item would have been identified as unattended and assessed as “safe” according to the HOT protocol. Clearly an attempt was then made to locate the owner and, with that proving unsuccessful, the item would then have been handed to platform staff as lost property. The emphasis throughout would (rightly) have been not causing undue delay to the train, and to the majority of passengers who hadn’t carelessly left unattended luggage aboard.

The “there are too many announcements” aspect to this is a red herring. Everybody should realise that they shouldn’t leave items unattended on public transport. If they do so, and said items end up being removed, they have nobody to blame but themselves.

 

[renegademaster]

majority of passengers who hadn’t carelessly left unattended luggage aboard.

In my experience most luggage in the coach end luggage racks are unattended, and theirs not usually an inquisition over trying to find out which belongs to who

 

[Aaron1]

About 10 years ago I think it was I was on a TPE train from Grimsby, I was standing opposite the luggage racks at the end of the carriage and this lady got on at Scunthorpe and asked me to lift her case onto the luggage rack in which I duly did, making sure the handle wasn't sticking out into the aisle, she then asked me to make sure the handle was sticking out in the aisle, clearly blocking people from walking by, I asked if she was sure and she was adamant so I left it like that, the guard came round and asked who's case it was, I told him it was a woman's and she asked for it to be sticking out, he said "right that'll be removed at the next station" and sure enough when we arrived into Doncaster, he took her case of the train and left it with station staff.

This lady was travelling all the way to Manchester

 

[AlterEgo]

Presumably the HOT protocol* was applied to judge if it was suspicious. If the criteria for HOT are met then there would be a very different response.

*HOT
- Hidden?
- Obviously suspicious?
- Typical?

If it is not HOT, why move it? It was clearly assessed as not HOT, so removing it from the train doesn't seem to make any sense to me.

 

[Haywain]

If it is not HOT, why move it? It was clearly assessed as not HOT, so removing it from the train doesn't seem to make any sense to me.

Because it was unclaimed.

 

[156421]

Most large stations in London and the North have a “left luggage” (ran by Excess baggage company) where they’re X-rayed upon arrival

x-ray scan could damage the bag contents such as if the bag contained a "film badge" type dosemeter

 

[AndrewE]

If the owner's name was on a luggage tag why on earth didn't they have their mobile number on it too? Would have avoided all this hassle.

The last thing I would do is leave my mobile number and name together in public for some miscreant to copy and pass on! One of the ways of getting rid of spam recognising rubbish calls is that they have picked your number at random but have no idea of your name...
I might leave just a mobile phone number on it.

 

[AlterEgo]

Because it was unclaimed.

Why can’t it go to the destination, as per the usual XC lost property procedure, where it would be taken off and logged? Why does baggage need to be claimed? What harm was it doing?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

What harm was it doing?

That's not entirely clear from what we've been told. The item of luggage could very possibly have been blocking a gangway, corridor or doorway, been placed on a seat which had been reserved by someone else, or perhaps some other reason? The train manager certainly seems to have taken exception to it!

 

[RHolmes]

Why can’t it go to the destination, as per the usual XC lost property procedure, where it would be taken off and logged? Why does baggage need to be claimed? What harm was it doing?

Would you be impressed if you boarded an XC service in Edinburgh, travelled to Dunbar and your back was handed in at Plymouth? Not only that, you have to pay for a return journey to collect it?

There are occasions where it’s better to get the bag off the train as soon as it’s unattended.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Aug 2024 ==

That's not entirely clear from what we've been told. The item of luggage could very possibly have been blocking a gangway, corridor or doorway, been placed on a seat which had been reserved by someone else, or perhaps some other reason? The train manager certainly seems to have taken exception to it!

Or causing concern to other passengers onboard

 

[AlterEgo]

Would you be impressed if you boarded an XC service in Edinburgh, travelled to Dunbar and your back was handed in at Plymouth? Not only that, you have to pay for a return journey to collect it?

I've actually worked the XC lost property telephone line - it is vastly simpler and easier to track luggage at the end destination of the train, not trying to guess which of the 20+ intermediate stations and station owning TOCs you are dealing with. XC does not operate any stations and does not therefore handle any lost property offices, making it unique among the ex-franchised TOCs in this regard.

Luggage being removed by staff en route is rare in my experience - I recall it happening once - and if the bag gets taken off at the destination of Plymouth by the cleaners, it is at least reliably *there*. There is not usually a log of lost property being found and removed unless a TM calls it in, which happens much less often than you would expect.

 

[AlbertBeale]

At least they're not destroyed (and causing a bomb squad intervention) like they are most of the time in France if left unlabeled

Really? I haven't labelled a bag in France in years.... and haven't been chased up over it in years - more like decades in fact...

 

[enginedin]

Surely it is time that every train - better still, every carriage - employed someone fluent in BSL [British Sign Language], in order to make such 'announcements' to those unable to hear what many others take for granted. Until then, equality and inclusivity will never be achieved.

this already happens on some trains...

Northern using AI to trial British Sign Language announcements on trains | Northern News

Northern customers travelling between Manchester and Leeds as well as Leeds to York will be able to see some of the train operator’s announcements in British Sign Language (BSL) thanks to a trial involving AI.

media.northernrailway.co.uk

 

[AlterEgo]

this already happens on some trains...

Northern using AI to trial British Sign Language announcements on trains | Northern News

Northern customers travelling between Manchester and Leeds as well as Leeds to York will be able to see some of the train operator’s announcements in British Sign Language (BSL) thanks to a trial involving AI.

media.northernrailway.co.uk

Not for bespoke announcements like “is this your bag in Coach A” though.

 

[WAB]

I had the same situation between Leeds and Derby several months ago. The TM was going on about it for ages, although I'm not sure where it was left. Perhaps there's a Brummie TM who is particularly keen on bags?

 

[michael8]

I wonder what the rules are. I've had bags removed twice, but fortunately not taken off the train.

A good few years ago I was travelling with a colleague, both of us with bags, south from Waverley, and once the train moved off we both left our bags to mark our seats and headed for the restaurant-car (as one did). Back in due course to find bags moved, seats given to others. All quickly sorted by very apologetic guard — but certainly an unpleasant surprise to come back and find things as though we'd never been there (as in some sort of detective novel).

Much more annoying and much more recent when travelling on East Midland Trains from London to Sheffield with just a very small bag, book, newspaper, etc. Seated near end of lightly-load first open. After Derby went to the adjacent toilet (so the "Occupied" light in the vehicle I was in would have come on). I returned not many minutes later to find my table had been cleared — no warning and no notification. On asking another passenger several bays away what was going on, they said the conductor had simply cleared things. So at least I knew where to hear to ask what had happened (no thanks to the railway staff), and I was duly told that the apparently unaccompanied property was a security risk and had therefore been removed.

If one is a lone traveller, without a comrade to leave in the seats, is it now safe to go and use a toilet on a train, let alone go and join a slow-moving queue in a buffet-car?

If one is a lone traveller, can I recommend that on going to the toilet you ask a nearby passenger to "keep an eye on your bags"? This can both help prevent any possible theft as well as, perhaps more usefully, allowing said nearby passenger to tell the guard if the guard asks if anybody knows who is the owner of said items.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Aug 2024 ==

I've never had a problem asking someone in a nearby seat to watch my bags as I go to the buffet or toilet and no-one has ever refused to do so.
I do wonder why more people don't do the same, reading some of the comments here.

Agree !

 

[signed]

Really? I haven't labelled a bag in France in years.... and haven't been chased up over it in years - more like decades in fact...

If your bag is left alone and unlabeled in a station, after an announcement, there is a real probability that you would get it at least checked on by bomb squad.

If the check isn't satisfactory, a security perimeter will get created and the bag destroyed.

Such bagage abandonnés incidents happens daily due to the terroristic threats (plan Vigipirate). Technically it should also be put in place in a train itself as well, but I've never heard it happen.

It's by far the biggest delay reason on SNCF network, more than 9000 hours of delay all added up in 2021

 

[TheSel]

this already happens on some trains...

Northern using AI to trial British Sign Language announcements on trains | Northern News

Northern customers travelling between Manchester and Leeds as well as Leeds to York will be able to see some of the train operator’s announcements in British Sign Language (BSL) thanks to a trial involving AI.

media.northernrailway.co.uk

I wasn't aware of that. Many thanks for highlighting. Good news.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Since when do bags get chucked off if you are not standing next to them? Most intercity trains are stacked with bags by the vesitubles unattended and its not usually an issue

Since the IRA started planting bombs on the UK mainland. I remember rubbish bins being removed for a while as well.

I would say that a bag left unattended is more at risk of being stolen than blowing up. Since the TM had made several announcements about the bag I would assume the owner had got off the train and left it on the train by mistake.

I've never had a problem asking someone in a nearby seat to watch my bags as I go to the buffet or toilet and no-one has ever refused to do so.
I do wonder why more people don't do the same, reading some of the comments here.

That is what I do. Train, pub, waiting room or where ever. Asking someone to keep an eye on my bag makes it less likely to get stolen and less likely to cause alarm.

The item would have been identified as unattended and assessed as “safe” according to the HOT protocol. Clearly an attempt was then made to locate the owner and, with that proving unsuccessful, the item would then have been handed to platform staff as lost property. The emphasis throughout would (rightly) have been not causing undue delay to the train, and to the majority of passengers who hadn’t carelessly left unattended luggage aboard.

The “there are too many announcements” aspect to this is a red herring. Everybody should realise that they shouldn’t leave items unattended on public transport. If they do so, and said items end up being removed, they have nobody to blame but themselves.

My feelings too. Some people are very casual about their bags. It is not very courteous to leave them lying around but then I guess that is more of a consideration for those of us who have noticed the security risk and announcements - living in London I am acutely aware of such sensitivities.

In my experience most luggage in the coach end luggage racks are unattended, and theirs not usually an inquisition over trying to find out which belongs to who

We don't know if it was in the luggage rack. We don't know if it was viewed as a bomb hazard, other safety risk, or just plain nuisance. The repeated announcements shows some effort being made to locate the owner of the baggage. In that situation a best assumption would be that they had got off and left it behind.

 

[CaptainHaddock]

The “there are too many announcements” aspect to this is a red herring. Everybody should realise that they shouldn’t leave items unattended on public transport. If they do so, and said items end up being removed, they have nobody to blame but themselves.

Nonsense, there's a whole host of reasons why someone might leave their bags unattended on a train. As well as going to the toilet someone might have gone to the buffet car, gone out into the vestibule to make a phone call or may just have gone for a walk if they're feeling a bit stiff.

It's amazing how conditioned some people have become by all the needless security messaging into thinking perfectly innocuous behaviour is suspicious!

 

[Peter Sarf]

Nonsense, there's a whole host of reasons why someone might leave their bags unattended on a train. As well as going to the toilet someone might have gone to the buffet car, gone out into the vestibule to make a phone call or may just have gone for a walk if they're feeling a bit stiff.

It's amazing how conditionsed some people have become by all the needless security messaging into thinking perfectly innocuous behaviour is suspicious!

A necessary evil in this day and age unfortunately.

 

[renegademaster]

Nonsense, there's a whole host of reasons why someone might leave their bags unattended on a train. As well as going to the toilet someone might have gone to the buffet car, gone out into the vestibule to make a phone call or may just have gone for a walk if they're feeling a bit stiff.

It's amazing how conditionsed some people have become by all the needless security messaging into thinking perfectly innocuous behaviour is suspicious!

Since it was chucked off at a busy station, even if it was a bomb the security theater was not going to save many lives

 

[trainophile]

In the platform 4 waiting room at Lancaster the other day there were three other people (who had their own luggage) plus about 20+ cases piled up at the far end, the end away from the little table with plug sockets and the departures board. I thought it must be being used for left luggage, as you can walk out of the station on that side without barriers. You can walk out on both sides, but the platform 3 side is home to the staffed areas so would be more obvious.

Several years ago I remember reading somewhere about the lack of left luggage facilities at Lancaster, as people were objecting to having to drag their suitcases down into the town. Some connections (especially Morecambe) are almost an hour apart, giving plenty of time to pop down into the town for half an hour. Seems like people might be making their own luggage arrangements now!

 

[Falcon1200]

there's a whole host of reasons why someone might leave their bags unattended on a train. As well as going to the toilet someone might have gone to the buffet car, gone out into the vestibule to make a phone call or may just have gone for a walk if they're feeling a bit stiff.

Indeed, but passengers, including me, do that all the time without having their bags removed, which suggests there must have been more to this incident than just that; We do not I think know just how long the bag had been unattended for!