Contactless payment only works on TFL

[hungover]

On Tuesday my Barclays debit card developed a fault. It wouldn't work either contactless or via chip and pin insert. Bizarrely it still works via contactless on tubes and buses. I have ordered a new card and uploaded the existing card to my phone so that I can still buy stuff when out and about. Do TFL use completely different protocols (or possibly frequencies) for contactless payments. I assume that they take a (token?) payment in real time- I once went over my overdraft limit and could not swipe to get on a bus.

 

[DelW]

On Tuesday my Barclays debit card developed a fault. It wouldn't work either contactless or via chip and pin insert. Bizarrely it still works via contactless on tubes and buses. I have ordered a new card and uploaded the existing card to my phone so that I can still buy stuff when out and about. Do TFL use completely different protocols (or possibly frequencies) for contactless payments. I assume that they take a (token?) payment in real time- I once went over my overdraft limit and could not swipe to get on a bus.

I don't think bus machines have a real-time communication link. IIRC they download their transactions to TfL's back office system overnight, then upload a file of blocked cards ready for the following day.

No idea about tube machines though.

 

[hungover]

I don't think bus machines have a real-time communication link. IIRC they download their transactions to TfL's back office system overnight, then upload a file of blocked cards ready for the following day.

No idea about tube machines though.

The time that my account was pennies over my overdraft limit I have no idea if I went over my limit late at night or the early hours of the morning, either way, my card was not "blocked" (as in not valid). Admittedly this kind of stuff is above my pay grade, but I don't see how TfL could know in advance if my account had funds or not prior to getting on the bus.

Whilst I appreciate your answer, it still doesn't explain why TfL are the only people that accept my card via contactless.

 

[dastocks]

It suggests the card is marked to be validated via chip and PIN but a hardware issue is preventing this from happening. The card issuer wants to be certain you are still in possession of the card so after a number of contactless transactions you will be required to validate via chip and PIN. Contactless transactions on public transport are exempt from this requirement for obvious reasons.

I don't think bus machines have a real-time communication link. IIRC they download their transactions to TfL's back office system overnight, then upload a file of blocked cards ready for the following day.

No idea about tube machines though.

In urban areas it tends to be 'near-real-time'. My local bus company has free wifi on their vehicles so they'll just do it. TfL buses spend a lot of time at or near bus stops with a data link used for passenger information so it would make sense to shift the transactions by wifi when they can. I have certainly seen bus transactions in online banking while I was still on the bus.

 

[Somewhere]

I don't think bus machines have a real-time communication link. IIRC they download their transactions to TfL's back office system overnight, then upload a file of blocked cards ready for the following day.

No idea about tube machines though.

My card will have a token payment taken within a few moments of getting on a TfL bus. So maybe they do that so they can subsequently decline your card if you try and use it later on?

 

[DelW]

Maybe their systems have been updated since I last had to pay on London buses (since I now have an ENCTS pass).

On my local route (Stagecoach, non London), most of the buses have no wifi, PIS, or much other technology, possibly because most of them are between 10 and 20 years old.

 

[Buzby]

On my local route (Stagecoach, non London), most of the buses have no wifi, PIS, or much other technology, possibly because most of them are between 10 and 20 years old

That wouldn’t be relevant- it’s not the age of the bus that decrees if contactless will work, most certainly the ticket machine will be providing the connectivity - your ENCTS after all is simply a different method of payment!

 

[Tetchytyke]

I don't think bus machines have a real-time communication link. IIRC they download their transactions to TfL's back office system overnight, then upload a file of blocked cards ready for the following day.

They do, the transactions are updated. How quickly depends on the operator and the signal in a specific area, but this is why you can track your spending on Contactless throughout the day using the TfL app.

I’ll see pending transactions within a few minutes when I use my card on buses outside of London. It’s not real time and so the ticket machines don’t validate the card, but in terms of timing it’s not far short.

 

[Buzby]

time and so the ticket machines don’t validate the card

Yes they do! There are several levels of validation, the first is offline - the presented card must return a recognised ITSO code to prevent its initial rejection, once the code is accepted and it is not on any blocked list of cards reportedly misused or stolen, it then is accepted for travel and the codes captured for uploading.

Since the ticket machines also provide a regular GPS ‘fix’ this data is also sent to the bus company who can then choose to send the tracking to their branded app as well as real-time display systems at bus stops and the like. Of the systems I looked at, cellular data was used to connect with the back office and whilst not truly real-time, it was within a minute or two.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Yes they do! There are several levels of validation

You are quite right. Sorry, should have been more clear, I was meaning they don’t check to see if the card has funds. It does get checked against blocked lists etc.

 

[hungover]

It suggests the card is marked to be validated via chip and PIN but a hardware issue is preventing this from happening. The card issuer wants to be certain you are still in possession of the card so after a number of contactless transactions you will be required to validate via chip and PIN. Contactless transactions on public transport are exempt from this requirement for obvious reasons.


In urban areas it tends to be 'near-real-time'. My local bus company has free wifi on their vehicles so they'll just do it. TfL buses spend a lot of time at or near bus stops with a data link used for passenger information so it would make sense to shift the transactions by wifi when they can. I have certainly seen bus transactions in online banking while I was still on the bus.

Thanks for the reply, but nah,as of Tuesday, if I try to do to tappy tap tap, it asks me to put the card in. If I put the card in, it rejects the card. Again, only TfL will accept it. In the meantime, I am, since Tuesday, using the copy of the card that I uploaded to my Google Wallet on my phone (on Tuesday after things went pare shaped). There is nothing wrong with the 16 digit code- the issue seems to be with the card.

In the past I have had cards that had breaks in them. Contactless would stop working but chip'n'pin was fine.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2024 ==

You are quite right. Sorry, should have been more clear, I was meaning they don’t check to see if the card has funds. It does get checked against blocked lists etc.

Thank you for the clarification. Kudos.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2024 ==

It suggests the card is marked to be validated via chip and PIN but a hardware issue is preventing this from happening. The card issuer wants to be certain you are still in possession of the card so after a number of contactless transactions you will be required to validate via chip and PIN.

My card will not work ANYWHERE other than at TfL. I tap in the pub or Tesco(/etc) it will ask me to insert the card. I insert the card an I get a message saying that I need to insert a valid card. Again, only been a problem since Tuesday.Have had about 12 TfL journeys since then. The long number on the card is fine as is evidenced by me uploading it to Google Wallet on my phone and using it elsewhere via contactless on my phone..

Sorry, this is not a chip and pin thing. When I put the card in, just like taping, it says that I need to insert a valid card. I don't even get a chance to enter the pin.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Aug 2024 ==

Yes they do! There are several levels of validation, the first is offline - the presented card must return a recognised ITSO code to prevent its initial rejection, once the code is accepted and it is not on any blocked list of cards reportedly misused or stolen, it then is accepted for travel and the codes captured for uploading.

Since the ticket machines also provide a regular GPS ‘fix’ this data is also sent to the bus company who can then choose to send the tracking to their branded app as well as real-time display systems at bus stops and the like. Of the systems I looked at, cellular data was used to connect with the back office and whilst not truly real-time, it was within a minute or two.

I bow to your superior knowledge.

I don't get real time billing from TfL, you can't even get it from your account on their website, but it is available the following day. Nevertheless, I can still use my card days later, and can, elsewhere, use the same card in an electronic form on my phone.

 

[plugwash]

My card will not work ANYWHERE other than at TfL. I tap in the pub or Tesco(/etc) it will ask me to insert the card.

That suggests it is reading the card, but you have gone over one of the the limits for contactless transactions (there are limits for both individual transactions and cumulative). As has been said "transit" transactions are exempt from these limits. I suspect if you tried it you would find your card also worked fine on other touch-in/touch-out transit systems.

I insert the card an I get a message saying that I need to insert a valid card.

That suggests it is failing to read the card over contact. Possiblly dirty contacts or a broken trace on the card.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I don't get real time billing from TfL, you can't even get it from your account on their website

You can get it on the TfL Oyster app. It’s gives you a real time calculation of what you’ve paid. It then gets finalised overnight, but it’s a good way of keeping tabs.

 

[skyhigh]

The long number on the card is fine as is evidenced by me uploading it to Google Wallet on my phone and using it elsewhere via contactless on my phone..

Google Wallet doesn't share your actual card number with the merchant though, a virtual card number is used which may explain why it works for contactless but the physical card doesn't. It's also not subject to the same spending/verification limits as contactless.

It sounds like something has gone wrong with your bank rather than the actual physical card.

 

[OscarH]

That suggests it is reading the card, but you have gone over one of the the limits for contactless transactions (there are limits for both individual transactions and cumulative). As has been said "transit" transactions are exempt from these limits. I suspect if you tried it you would find your card also worked fine on other touch-in/touch-out transit systems.


That suggests it is failing to read the card over contact. Possiblly dirty contacts or a broken trace on the card.

Yeah, I agree this sounds most likely - the physical chip has failed on the card, and the contactless limit has been reached for non-transit