Cross Country Cancellations - Emergency Timetable

[GoneSouth]

Whatever the circumstances are XC services are and will always be abysmal.
Short formed smelly expensive and dirty why change the habit of a lifetime.
Refurb time ha ha You can Polish a turd but it's still a turd

I thought you were talking about Northern then for a minute but then realised the expensive bit doesn’t necessarily apply to them

 

[virgintrain1]

It's not required by anyone other than CrossCountry management. That's simply what they decided.

Sorry that is wildly inaccurate comment.

No 125mph stock allows you to operate without crew in each portion.

Other TOCs double sets that require a member of staff in each portion:

Avanti Voyagers and 80X
GWR 80x and previously 180s
EMR 222s
LNER 80x
Hull Trains 802s
Grand Central 180s

Can't talk for traction other than Voyagers but it really comes down to the way the trains are designed, they simply require input form onboard crew. Call for aids for example drivers are note made aware of their activation and 40+ minutes between stops would be far to long to wait to see what the situation is. (Voyagers don't have PassComs in toilets etc)

 

[MasterPhillips]

Sorry that is wildly inaccurate comment.

No 125mph stock allows you to operate without crew in each portion.

Other TOCs double sets that require a member of staff in each portion:

Avanti Voyagers and 80X
GWR 80x and previously 180s
EMR 222s
LNER 80x
Hull Trains 802s
Grand Central 180s

But do they require a Train Manager like XC do? GWR 80x certainly don’t, you only need a “lead customer host”. Which pretty much all customer hosts seem to be anyway. I have never seen a 10 car GWR service with a set locked out due to no crew.

 

[virgintrain1]

But do they require a Train Manager like XC do? GWR 80x certainly don’t, you only need a “lead customer host”. Which pretty much all customer hosts seem to be anyway. I have never seen a 10 car GWR service with a set locked out due to no crew.

XC don't require two Train Managers.

XC don't have lead hosts as all Retail Service Managers and First Class host are competent unless medically restricted. XC are just really short of all crew. XC lost all caterers that applied for voluntary redundancy.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Sorry that is wildly inaccurate comment.

No 125mph stock allows you to operate without crew in each portion.

This is also inaccurate.

South Eastern’s 125mph rolling stock doesn’t require on train staff in each portion of the non-walkthrough train.

 

[virgintrain1]

This is also inaccurate.

South Eastern’s 125mph rolling stock doesn’t require on train staff in each portion of the non-walkthrough train.

South Eastern is DCO and 140mph

 

[Starmill]

No 125mph stock allows you to operate without crew in each portion

So what you're saying is that higher top speed means there's a difference in rules?

You're also not correct. Some of those quoted and others do exceptionally operate with just one member of customer service staff. It's a choice to require a third member of staff. Which is exactly what I was trying to say! I wasn't even saying it was a negative choice choice either, I was simply saying it's a choice. Which is what you're confirming.

Can't talk for traction other than Voyagers but it really comes down to the way the trains are designed, they simply require input form onboard crew. Call for aids for example drivers are note made aware of their activation and 40+ minutes between stops would be far to long to wait to see what the situation is.

That's not any different to a class 168 and their routes. Unless you're saying occasionally travelling at 110-125 miles / hour makes that less safe...

 

[virgintrain1]

So what you're saying is that higher top speed means there's a difference in rules?

You're also not correct. Some of those quoted and others do exceptionally operate with just one member of customer service staff. It's a choice to require a third member of staff. Which is exactly what I was trying to say! I wasn't even saying it was a negative choice choice either, I was simply saying it's a choice. Which is what you're confirming.


That's not any different to a class 168 and their routes. Unless you're saying occasionally travelling at 110-125 miles / hour makes that less safe...

I'm just saying it's unfair to say it's a problem specific to XC. Out of the quoted other TOCs which one is inaccurate?

 

[SIMON in OXF]

Bad enough last week with the 1739 not running.
This week there is nothing between the 1640 and the 1839 because 1812 seems to have disappeared as well
Just the slow GWR thing at 1754 (and 1653) which is packed

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[swt_passenger]

Bad enough last week with the 1739 not running.
This week there is nothing between the 1640 and the 1839 because 1812 seems to have disappeared as well
Just the slow GWR thing at 1754 (and 1653) which is packed

This week‘s temporary pdf timetable does not seem to show a 1739 or an 1812, so what you saw is as expected.

 

[Deafdoggie]

XC are just really short of all crew.

So why aren't they recruiting then? They seem to be making no effort at all.

 

[MasterPhillips]

This week‘s temporary pdf timetable does not seem to show a 1739 or an 1812, so what you saw is as expected.

So this temporary timetable changes every week? That would explain Why there was a 15:43 Reading to Birmingham service which had not run last week.

 

[ChrisC]

So this temporary timetable changes every week? That would explain Why there was a 15:43 Reading to Birmingham service which had not run last week.

I‘ve recently found out that the 0945 train from Cardiff to Nottingham is not running on Saturday September 7th. That means an earlier breakfast and getting the 0845 instead.

 

[YorksLad12]

So this temporary timetable changes every week? That would explain Why there was a 15:43 Reading to Birmingham service which had not run last week.

There are engineering works, so last week's timetable will be different to this week's, which will be different to next week's. I did hear a conductor-guard say that it would be over by Tuesday. Or on Tuesday. Tuesday was definitely involved.

 

[Horizon22]

I have never seen a 10 car GWR service with a set locked out due to no crew.

It certainly has happened, but it's rare.

 

[occone]

I’m sorry to say this but it’s the staff which annoy me as much as anything

You really do have a point, much though I don't like to tar an entire staff with the same brush. There have been at least two XC staff over the years who have been genuinely really pleasant, helpful and seem to care, but the pattern is absolutely there and easy to see.

When I have the fortune of being in the south-west, the contrast between XC and GWR is night and day. I can think of multiple times GWR staff have been pleasant, so much so I must have sent in a handful of compliments over the years.

 

[MattSGB]

You really do have a point, much though I don't like to tar an entire staff with the same brush. There have been at least two XC staff over the years who have been genuinely really pleasant, helpful and seem to care, but the pattern is absolutely there and easy to see.

When I have the fortune of being in the south-west, the contrast between XC and GWR is night and day. I can think of multiple times GWR staff have been pleasant, so much so I must have sent in a handful of compliments over the years.

I'm sure the job must psychologically damage the XC staff, especially working the south west. Who can blame them when they are constantly getting flak from passengers aggregated by:

-Half their journeys being crush loaded at any given time, with passengers fighting over seats.
-Passengers having to avoid drinking fluids over long distances because the toilets are barricaded by hoards clogging the vestibules.
-No refreshments because the trolley only managed to operate between Plymouth and Totnes before the passage became hopelessly blocked.
-Demoralised passengers who boarded the train with luggage to find no available luggage space anywhere and overhead racks that are too small even for a rucksack. Seriously what are you supposed to do with your luggage?
-Stubborn refusal to declassify first class when a four car 220 is dangerously crush loaded in standard class?
-Vestibule doors that relentlessly try to crush you as you try to disembark.
-Arctic temperatures in summer.
-People who booked nearly 12 weeks in advance and the lousy booking system ignored their table window request and instead gave them seats C18 and C21 again, despite them being airline seats that aren't even next to each other.
-And for the worst standard of service anywhere in the UK (except maybe TfW) they paid possibly the most expensive price per mile, or had to needlessly faff around with tickets split into three legs.

I travelled on XC to the South West last week and it was utter hell. Passengers were so stressed out that there were multiple instances of verbal aggression between passengers. Imagine having to routinely have to deal with so many passengers made extremely cross by XC trains.

 

[takno]

I'm sure the job must psychologically damage the XC staff, especially working the south west. Who can blame them when they are constantly getting flak from passengers aggregated by:

-Half their journeys being crush loaded at any given time, with passengers fighting over seats.
-Passengers having to avoid drinking fluids over long distances because the toilets are barricaded by hoards clogging the vestibules.
-No refreshments because the trolley only managed to operate between Plymouth and Totnes before the passage became hopelessly blocked.
-Demoralised passengers who boarded the train with luggage to find no available luggage space anywhere and overhead racks that are too small even for a rucksack. Seriously what are you supposed to do with your luggage?
-Stubborn refusal to declassify first class when a four car 220 is dangerously crush loaded in standard class?
-Vestibule doors that relentlessly try to crush you as you try to disembark.
-Arctic temperatures in summer.
-People who booked nearly 12 weeks in advance and the lousy booking system ignored their table window request and instead gave them seats C18 and C21 again, despite them being airline seats that aren't even next to each other.
-And for the worst standard of service anywhere in the UK (except maybe TfW) they paid possibly the most expensive price per mile, or had to needlessly faff around with tickets split into three legs.

I travelled on XC to the South West last week and it was utter hell. Passengers were so stressed out that there were multiple instances of verbal aggression between passengers. Imagine having to routinely have to deal with so many passengers made extremely cross by XC trains.

For contrast I traveled down last weekend, and between Birmingham and Exeter the 5 car train was half empty throughout, except for a bit of a rush between Bristol and Taunton. The luggage rack was only half full at worst. I did one split at Bristol, but nothing dramatic and had been allocated decent seats throughout.

The staff were entirely invisible, as indeed they always have been when I've travelled on XC, but since the train wasn't busy and I wasn't in first class chasing freebies that suited me just fine.

 

[YorksLad12]

You really do have a point, much though I don't like to tar an entire staff with the same brush. There have been at least two XC staff over the years who have been genuinely really pleasant, helpful and seem to care, but the pattern is absolutely there and easy to see.

When I have the fortune of being in the south-west, the contrast between XC and GWR is night and day. I can think of multiple times GWR staff have been pleasant, so much so I must have sent in a handful of compliments over the years.

Conversely, I've always found XC staff between Leeds and Sheffield pleasant enough when they check my Northern-issued smartcard with a flexi-season ticket which never reads properly first time on it. Given the miserable sods they encounter most days, who take tickets checks as an affront to their personal integrity and won't even demean them with eye contact, a smile and "thank-you" afterwards can work wonders for someone's mood.

 

[Martin_1981]

I'm sure the job must psychologically damage the XC staff, especially working the south west. Who can blame them when they are constantly getting flak from passengers aggregated by:

-Half their journeys being crush loaded at any given time, with passengers fighting over seats.
-Passengers having to avoid drinking fluids over long distances because the toilets are barricaded by hoards clogging the vestibules.
-No refreshments because the trolley only managed to operate between Plymouth and Totnes before the passage became hopelessly blocked.
-Demoralised passengers who boarded the train with luggage to find no available luggage space anywhere and overhead racks that are too small even for a rucksack. Seriously what are you supposed to do with your luggage?
-Stubborn refusal to declassify first class when a four car 220 is dangerously crush loaded in standard class?
-Vestibule doors that relentlessly try to crush you as you try to disembark.
-Arctic temperatures in summer.
-People who booked nearly 12 weeks in advance and the lousy booking system ignored their table window request and instead gave them seats C18 and C21 again, despite them being airline seats that aren't even next to each other.
-And for the worst standard of service anywhere in the UK (except maybe TfW) they paid possibly the most expensive price per mile, or had to needlessly faff around with tickets split into three legs.

I travelled on XC to the South West last week and it was utter hell. Passengers were so stressed out that there were multiple instances of verbal aggression between passengers. Imagine having to routinely have to deal with so many passengers made extremely cross by XC trains.

My dad caught the 08:37 Penzance to Edinburgh XC service from St Erth to Birmingham 2 days after Boxing Day last year. A 4 Coach Class 220 which was full by the time it got to Truro, and by Plymouth passengers were standing all along the corridors. At Exeter and Bristol it was utter carnage, with passengers arguing and shouting, and some people having to get off the train to let others off (or go in the toilets!!) and then get back on again. A journey he says he will never forget.

 

[dk1]

My dad caught the 08:37 Penzance to Edinburgh XC service from St Erth to Birmingham 2 days after Boxing Day last year. A 4 Coach Class 220 which was full by the time it got to Truro, and by Plymouth passengers were standing all along the corridors. At Exeter and Bristol it was utter carnage, with passengers arguing and shouting, and some people having to get off the train to let others off (or go in the toilets!!) and then get back on again. A journey he says he will never forget.

Yes it’s often like that. You can go from St.Erth and even in the unlikely event a trolley boards before Plymouth, not get it passed you that side of Taunton. Been like that at least 20 years now and can’t see it changing much in the next five at least. Always so busy.

 

[irish_rail]

Yes it’s often like that. You can go from St.Erth and even in the unlikely event a trolley boards before Plymouth, not get it passed you that side of Taunton. Been like that at least 20 years now and can’t see it changing much in the next five at least. Always so busy.

Indeed. The problem for the south west seems to be all of our doubled up voyagers Northbound are in the afternoon. So anyone leaving the south west after 7am has to wait until 1227 for the first decent length train. Of course most people on long XC style journeys want to set out in the morning, but there are literally zero options to aim for a proper length train. Its all 4s and 5s (mainly 4s) until the 1227.

 

[dk1]

Indeed. The problem for the south west seems to be all of our doubled up voyagers Northbound are in the afternoon. So anyone leaving the south west after 7am has to wait until 1227 for the first decent length train. Of course most people on long XC style journeys want to set out in the morning, but there are literally zero options to aim for a proper length train. Its all 4s and 5s (mainly 4s) until the 1227.

Maybe things will improve with the cascade but unfortunately at the moment any improvements here would just be robbing Peter to pay Paul.

 

[43055]

Indeed. The problem for the south west seems to be all of our doubled up voyagers Northbound are in the afternoon. So anyone leaving the south west after 7am has to wait until 1227 for the first decent length train. Of course most people on long XC style journeys want to set out in the morning, but there are literally zero options to aim for a proper length train. Its all 4s and 5s (mainly 4s) until the 1227.

The 0827 from Plymouth is a double set with the rear one starting at Penzance. The 0620 and 0727 seem to be regular double sets as well.

 

[voyagerdude220]

My dad caught the 08:37 Penzance to Edinburgh XC service from St Erth to Birmingham 2 days after Boxing Day last year. A 4 Coach Class 220

I'd hope that Cross Country would at least put a 5-car on all of their workings to/from Penzance.

Surely they could do this, even if it meant a Plymouth to Scotland one was a 4-car. Of course ideally I wouldn't have any single 4car sets but I'm assuming there aren't enough to prevent this from happening.

Sometimes recently they've put two 5-cars together but because the 10car formation is too long for some stations they've had to lock the very rear carriage out of use.

Meanwhile a 4-car is going around rammed. (Surely it would be better to have the double set 4+5, and the other one 5 car?)

 

[irish_rail]

The 0827 from Plymouth is a double set with the rear one starting at Penzance. The 0620 and 0727 seem to be regular double sets as well.

OK I stand corrected on the 0827. But the first three off peak ones (0927 1027 1127) are all singles, and these are the trains most long distance travellers aim for.

 

[Martin_1981]

OK I stand corrected on the 0827. But the first three off peak ones (0927 1027 1127) are all singles, and these are the trains most long distance travellers aim for.

Yes, my dad caught the 1127 Plymouth to Edinburgh from Exeter to Birmingham on Tuesday 13th August, again a 4 coach Voyager and it was packed.

 

[43055]

OK I stand corrected on the 0827. But the first three off peak ones (0927 1027 1127) are all singles, and these are the trains most long distance travellers aim for.

Will change in December thought with the Cardiff service joining to the 0827 at Birmingham. Hopefully some more of the ex Avanti units enter service soon.

 

[Jrocks]

Will change in December thought with the Cardiff service joining to the 0827 at Birmingham. Hopefully some more of the ex Avanti units enter service soon.

From what I've heard, 1S43 (0827 off PLY) becomes a single set from December, attaching at Birmingham with the unit from Cardiff. As a result, 1S41 (0727 off PLY) becomes a double set throughout.

 

[irish_rail]

From what I've heard, 1S43 (0827 off PLY) becomes a single set from December, attaching at Birmingham with the unit from Cardiff. As a result, 1S41 (0727 off PLY) becomes a double set throughout.

I think the trouble is 0727 is just too early for many leisure travellers , not to mention the peak fare putting the vast majority off. I'm quite shocked XC are not doing something about the 1127 from December, as this one is a real problem. I know from personal experience as we are booked to travel on it on one Plymouth driving turn, but from Exeter to Bristol. Of the 5 times I've done the turn, twice I couldn't physically board at Exeter such was the overcrowding and on one of those occasions the 1400 Bristol to London got caped as a result of me being unable to get to Bristol to drive it! XC need to address this.

Moderator note: As this thread is just about what is actually happening, further discussion regarding what XC should be doing can be found at:

If additional stock becomes available, XC's priority should be to lengthen existing services

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/cross-country-cancellations-emergency-timetable.271460 From what I've heard, 1S43 (0827 off PLY) becomes a single set from December, attaching at Birmingham with the unit from Cardiff. As a result, 1S41 (0727 off PLY) becomes a...

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