December 2024 timetable change

[Paul Duck]

Northallerton has 71,000 annual journeys to / from Darlington, Durham and Newcastle. For Middlesbrough, Redcar and Saltburn, it's 22,000 (and, for comparison's sake, it's 30,000 for Leeds, Manchester Victoria, Piccadilly and Airport combined, and 60,000 each for King's Cross and York).

It certainly is a very large flow for us at Northallerton. People are getting wind of the December timetable and it’s not going down well. But we shall see if these LNER York to Newcastle shuttles appear as we’ve been told.

 

[htafc]

I could be remembering totally wrong but when Northern last ran the Huddersfield half of the stopper it was 195s and I suspect it will be againj despite the timings.

Weren't they on the Leeds-Wigan trains for a bit?

 

[Trainman40083]

Whilst this is currently shown as pathed via Bolton I expect that it will actually run via Chat Moss as the current service does.

It does seem to suggest a train that might be affected by engineering work, potentially having alternative routes to Preston.

 

[YorksLad12]

I could be remembering totally wrong but when Northern last ran the Huddersfield half of the stopper it was 195s and I suspect it will be againj despite the timings.

Pacers. They hadn't got the 195s in 2018, I thought, but I've definitely caught a Pacer on that route. There were 150s on the route to Bradford... perhaps some interworking?

 

[Iskra]

Pacers. They hadn't got the 195s in 2018, I thought, but I've definitely caught a Pacer on that route. There were 150s on the route to Bradford... perhaps some interworking?

I remember 156’s working on the route via Marsden previously.

 

[YorksLad12]

I remember 156’s working on the route via Marsden previously.

How far previously? I can't remember, but it's been a long time since we had Leeds-Huddesfield-Marsden services - too many TPE fasts to reintroduce them, I guess.

 

[Iskra]

How far previously? I can't remember, but it's been a long time since we had Leeds-Huddesfield-Marsden services - too many TPE fasts to reintroduce them, I guess.

They were split at Huddersfield so West of Huddersfield was 156’s and East of Huddersfield was usually 158’s (but other units could appear). It feels like 3-4 years ago at a rough guess but it could be more.

 

[norbitonflyer]

That is done for a reason, pricing the track bashers off.

If so, they understimate the dedication of track bashers - rare track for the price of a day return to Swindon?

 

[Sunil_P]

If so, they understimate the dedication of track bashers - rare track for the price of a day return to Swindon?

Speaking of Swindon, the direct services from there to Oxford via Foxhall Junction and Didcot North Junction start on Saturday 14th September. But it's only two round trips, Saturdays only!

 

[Kieran1990]

They were split at Huddersfield so West of Huddersfield was 156’s and East of Huddersfield was usually 158’s (but other units could appear). It feels like 3-4 years ago at a rough guess but it could be more.

Pre move to TPE it was mainly 158s but any of the Neville Hill sprinters or Pacers could make an appearance. Class 170’s were hired in by Northern post 2018 timetable meltdown to give TPE an extra 185.

Surprised a class 170 isn’t available to cover the bi-hourly trip, class 150 will be a big downgrade and potential performance risk if delays are picked up and recovery.

 

[Blindtraveler]

A 150 whilst a downgrade comfort wise is going to keep the timings on a stopping service far better than the turbostar

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Speaking of Swindon, the direct services from there to Oxford via Foxhall Junction and Didcot North Junction start on Saturday 14th September. But it's only two round trips, Saturdays only!

That is all that was ever announced for the trial service. It’s basically one unit making two round trips at useful times for leisure travel. The set is essentially the 5-car that facilitates the Pembroke Dock extensions in the summer, hence why this trial commences in September.

 

[Northern158170]

Pre move to TPE it was mainly 158s but any of the Neville Hill sprinters or Pacers could make an appearance. Class 170’s were hired in by Northern post 2018 timetable meltdown to give TPE an extra 185.

Surprised a class 170 isn’t available to cover the bi-hourly trip, class 150 will be a big downgrade and potential performance risk if delays are picked up and recovery.

There often aren’t enough 170s to do their booked work. Earlier in the summer it wasn’t uncommon for 2 sprinters to work the Harrogate line off-peak and a few times there were 3 (out of 6 required units)

 

[Some guy]

I just noticed class 185s are returning to the west coast mainline in this timetable change years after they taken 185s off Preston depots route card. It’s a fully electrified route surely a 397 can fill in

Realtime Trains | 1M94 2053 Oxenholme Lake District to Manchester Airport | 16/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 1M94 2053 departure from Oxenholme Lake District to Manchester Airport on 16/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I just noticed class 185s are returning to the west coast mainline in this timetable change years after they taken 185s off Preston depots route card. It’s a fully electrified route surely a 397 can fill in

Realtime Trains | 1M94 2053 Oxenholme Lake District to Manchester Airport | 16/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 1M94 2053 departure from Oxenholme Lake District to Manchester Airport on 16/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Is this not to help provide cover for the 397 refurbishment that someone mentioned the other day as being a reason for there being a second 802 diagram on the WCML?

 

[hexagon789]

I just noticed class 185s are returning to the west coast mainline in this timetable change years after they taken 185s off Preston depots route card. It’s a fully electrified route surely a 397 can fill in

Realtime Trains | 1M94 2053 Oxenholme Lake District to Manchester Airport | 16/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 1M94 2053 departure from Oxenholme Lake District to Manchester Airport on 16/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Is this not to help provide cover for the 397 refurbishment that someone mentioned the other day as being a reason for there being a second 802 diagram on the WCML?

Mentioned back in post #120

 

[Chiltern006]

Off topic but why are the 397s being refurbished after only 5 years in service?

 

[hexagon789]

Off topic but why are the 397s being refurbished after only 5 years in service?

More a refresh than full-blown refurbishment.

 

[OliverH68]

GTR is now up.

 

[PGAT]

At a quick glance it looks like Southern has gone back to the pre-covid arrangement where London Bridge trains terminate at Selhurst and continue back to London Bridge starting at Norwood Junction in the peak. In addition the 0750 from Selhurst to Victoria now starts at East Croydon and a new inbound service from Victoria has been added to supplement this. Very interesting stuff.

 

[Belperpete]

At a quick glance it looks like Southern has gone back to the pre-covid arrangement where London Bridge trains terminate at Selhurst and continue back to London Bridge starting at Norwood Junction in the peak.

Perhaps they should put the old Selhurst - Norwood Junction spur back!

 

[PGAT]

Perhaps they should put the old Selhurst - Norwood Junction spur back!

That's what is used!

Realtime Trains | 5T87 0710 Selhurst to Norwood Junction | 16/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 5T87 0710 departure from Selhurst to Norwood Junction on 16/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[JonathanH]

That's what is used!

Realtime Trains | 5T87 0710 Selhurst to Norwood Junction | 16/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 5T87 0710 departure from Selhurst to Norwood Junction on 16/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

The 'old' Selhurst to Norwood Junction spur didn't go through the depot.

See https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...nction-to-selhurst-curve.237895/#post-5874348

The two evening trains go to West Croydon, then fast to Sutton, empty to Victoria, and then to Streatham Hill Shed.

Presumably this means that Southern are getting at least four extra units.

 

[Belperpete]

The 'old' Selhurst to Norwood Junction spur didn't go through the depot.

See https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...nction-to-selhurst-curve.237895/#post-5874348

That thread has some good diagrams of the old and current layouts.

I remember when at places like Selhurst, Thornton Heath, etc. if you missed a train to London Bridge heading north, you could catch one heading south!

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The 'old' Selhurst to Norwood Junction spur didn't go through the depot.

See https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...nction-to-selhurst-curve.237895/#post-5874348

The two evening trains go to West Croydon, then fast to Sutton, empty to Victoria, and then to Streatham Hill Shed.

Presumably this means that Southern are getting at least four extra units.

Or culling more 12's back to 8's

 

[Sussex Ben]

Additional Bognor to London Bridge (and vice versa) peak service planned. That’ll be another two units needed, assuming they’ll be 8-cars.

 

[Robski]

On Great Northern, three peak trains have been reinstated in each direction in the path of the Baldock peak service between Letchworth and Kings Cross. Southbound they leave Letchworth at 0717, 0745 and 0817, and northbound they leave at 1724, 1754 and 1824. They call at all stations Letchworth - Welwyn North, skipping Stevenage.

Also, the two Peterborough peak services marked as "Runs as required" in the current timetable are now no longer shown as such (iirc these trains are meant to start running from October?).

 

[Baji]

Real train times shows two additional services added between London Bridge to Sutton in new timetable change

17:40 London Bridge to Sutton via Forest Hill

17:52 London Bridge to Sutton via Tulse Hill and Hackbridge

Realtime Trains | 2T91 1740 London Bridge to Sutton (Surrey) | 18/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 2T91 1740 departure from London Bridge to Sutton (Surrey) on 18/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 2W95 1752 London Bridge to Sutton (Surrey) | 18/12/2024

Real-time train running information for 2W95 1752 departure from London Bridge to Sutton (Surrey) on 18/12/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[infobleep]

COVID has been a useful excuse for SWR who have left themselves woefully short of rolling stock. They can barely run the existing service let alone add any more.

I was hoping for the Hounslow loop services to be restored but (unsurprisingly) no sign of that.

I thought it was due to not enough passengers returning to the railway or generating enough income and some stations that might be popular lose out due to the line they are on.

SWR have a new 0752 Surbiton to London Waterloo calling at all stations except Berrylands which should relieve some of the long standing overcrowding on peak time services from Surbiton that are not non stop to Waterloo.

That is welcomed but I am surprised, they have a path available.

 

[GatwickDepress]

Hastings seems to lose the 0507 to London Victoria, with the next East Coastway service not being until the 0554 to Brighton. I'm hoping it's a mistake as it was always quite busy when I commuted to Eastbourne and I know a lot of people who rely on it.

EDIT: Definitely looks like a mistake as the 0440 ECS from Eastbourne which forms this service is still on there.