Differences between UK and mainland European railways

[RT4038]

That depends a lot on which country you are looking at. In France and Spain, it's not very good indeed but that's only 2 countries.

It probably does reflect the different population densities in the regional areas?

 

[The exile]

In Europe there is a much more pronounced bias to Inter-city travel, as opposed to small regional lines. Where in the UK, it balances itself out.

In France, many regional lines are just not served or with very very inconvenient services.

That very much depends on which bit of “Europe” you’re talking about.

 

[geoffk]

SNCF has installed them (ticket gates) at most main line stations now

But they are only used with TGV services and not for TER for ex.

Other way round in Australia, when I was there in 2009. Gates only applied to platforms used by local trains at Sydney Central and Melbourne Southern Cross, not long distance. (Sorry, this thread is about Europe).

 

[JonasB]

In Europe there is a much more pronounced bias to Inter-city travel, as opposed to small regional lines. Where in the UK, it balances itself out.

It varies a lot, in France small regional lines tend to be ignored. But the situation is very different in Germany, Denmark, Sweden and many other countries.

 

[RT4038]

That very much depends on which bit of “Europe” you’re talking about.

Well quite - Belgium and Netherlands are fairly similar to the UK in this regard. (fairly similar rather than exactly the same, before all sorts of differences are pointed out!)

 

[Bemined]

The Netherlands of course does not have the same level of ruralness as other countries. Except for Utrecht Maliebaan (railway museum station only served when the museum is open) and Eemshaven (station at the very top of Groningen, mainly used to change to the ferry as there is pretty much nothing else there) all stations are served by at least one train per hour in each direction. Even Stavoren, which is the third least served station in the Netherlands (after Eemshaven and Maliebaan), gets 23 trains per day on a weekday and 15 on Sundays.

 

[Falcon1200]

Firstly, it seems that most major lines on the mainland are signalled for bi-directional running and I wondered why this is rarely the case in Britain?

IMHO our railways compare very well with most others in the world, however one area where we are definitely way behind is bi-directional signalling; Not everywhere but on main lines at least. It is quite astonishing that parts of the West (WCML) and East Coast Main lines do not, still, have this on key double-track sections. For some years I was Network Rail Controller for those routes in Scotland, and on the WCML in particular the number of incidents where bi-di signalling would have greatly reduced delays was huge. Even getting sufficient staff to site to bring in Single Line Working (SLW) could take up to two hours, then the SLW itself restricted what could run and caused massive disruption.

 

[blueberry11]

Ticket types are one thing to consider. Return tickets on the continent may not be a thing and instead uses two singles to constitute a return. Meanwhile, single tickets in the UK are often £1 or even 10p less than a return. Which might explain why UK has some of the most expensive single tickets in Europe.

Also regarding ticket barriers, I always thought only major UK and Dutch stations use them outside of metro systems. Maybe its because (at least in the UK) they have to be staffed in case tickets get rejected even if it's valid, otherwise they must be kept open. But as others pointed above, France has started to install them.

 

[signed]

France has started to install them.

However, the spirit of ticket gates here is different to the UK and NL. Here ticket gates are installed per-platform and not for a group of platform because they are only to be used on TGV servicee

 

[DanielB]

Also regarding ticket barriers, I always thought only major UK and Dutch stations use them outside of metro systems. Maybe its because (at least in the UK) they have to be staffed in case tickets get rejected even if it's valid, otherwise they must be kept open.

Not the case in the Netherlands, for rejected tickets there is simply a pole with "i" and "sos" button next to the barriers. Should they not open with, usually, an international ticket a press of the button and quick explanation is enough to have one opened remotely.
With domestic chipcards lack of credit is a usual reason for barriers not opening. And for those cases there is always a machine to top up your card within the barriers.

 

[miklcct]

In most European countries I have travelled to, long distance and local trains are separate networks with different ticketing rules. Nothing like National Rail where you can buy a through ticket from a single long distance station and a random suburban station far away in another city.

For example, in Finland, long distance trains have a completely separate ticketing to suburban trains, while suburban trains in the HSL area have integrated ticketing with other modes of urban transport. However, a long distance ticket can be used to make a local connecting journey in the HSL area for a limited time before / after the long distance journey.

 

[Cloud Strife]

On the subject of staffing, in 2014 I spent an hour or so at Roskilde station, a very busy station serving this historic city with a population of some 48,000, 30 km west of Copenhagen. I was surprised to see that the ticket office was open only between 0900 and 1600 on Mondays to Fridays. There were ticket machines and I assumed they offered the full range of tickets, but there was no visible station staff while I was there in the evening. The same appeared to be true in Sweden - only the stations in very large towns had ticket offices.

About Danish stations: the 7-Eleven in the station itself can sell tickets, as they have a franchise for something like 60-odd stores in Danish stations. As a result, the ticket offices generally have very limited opening hours, because they're simply not needed by the vast majority of travellers. Even in Odense, the DSB ticket office is only open from 08:00-17:00 weekdays, but the 7-Eleven can sell tickets from 05:00-22:00.

As for ticket gates, they're unknown in Poland, except on the Warsaw Metro. Having said that, trains tend to be excessively overstaffed, so fare evasion is quite low.

One big difference that I've noticed in Poland as opposed to the UK is simply how unfriendly timetables are. I live in Wrocław, and not a single line has anything resembling a reasonable service where you can expect a train every half hour or so.

 

[miklcct]

One big difference that I've noticed in Poland as opposed to the UK is simply how unfriendly timetables are. I live in Wrocław, and not a single line has anything resembling a reasonable service where you can expect a train every half hour or so.

The suburban line through the Tricity (Gdansk - Sopot - Gdynia) has a 24/7 service with turn-up-and-go frequency during normal hours. The regional lines around there, although without clock-face scheduling, aren't that bad as well, even the single line to Hel has a train every hour subject to interaction with intercity trains.

 

[AY1975]

SNCF has installed them at most mailine stations now

But they are only used with TGV services and not for TER for ex.

Does this mean that fare evasion is more of a problem on TGVs than TERs? You might think it would be the other way round.

Germany did have ticket gates at most stations from the 1890s until the 1960s-1970s, nowadays there are no gates anywhere.

As did most if not all countries in mainland Europe AFAIK until around that time, but they were the old-style staffed barriers, not automated gates as we know them today.

 

[Re 4/4]

Does this mean that fare evasion is more of a problem on TGVs than TERs? You might think it would be the other way round.

I thought the TGV bit was security (perhaps security theatre) rather than fare evasion. I remember in the past on a TGV there was an announcement at an intermediate stop to beware of baggage thieves.

 

[geoffk]

Another difference will be the laws relating to public rights of way. Although most foot crossings at stations in Britain have been removed, there are many crossings in rural areas especially. Germany has something like a "right to roam" but with restrictions. I don't remember seeing any footpaths across railways on any of my European trips. Anyone know more?

 

[signed]

Does this mean that fare evasion is more of a problem on TGVs than TERs? You might think it would be the other way round.

Nothing to do with fare evasion.

It's up to regions to decide to install them with their own funds, SNCF is only the operator. So far, apart from Ile-de-France and Normandy, nobody cared to install barriers for TER/Transillien services. So SNCF has installed them for TGV as it is an independant service.

 

[D6130]

Another difference will be the laws relating to public rights of way. Although most foot crossings at stations in Britain have been removed, there are many crossings in rural areas especially. Germany has something like a "right to roam" but with restrictions. I don't remember seeing any footpaths across railways on any of my European trips. Anyone know more?

There are still quite a few on slow-speed secondary and branch lines in Italy. They are often protected by what looks like a black and white four-pronged turnstile....although it doesn't actually rotate, so pedestrians have to make a conscious effort to weave round them.

There are very few - if any - left on main lines, although there used to be quite a few giving access to beaches on the Adriatic and Terranean coast lines. The majority have been replaced by footbridges or underpasses.

There are, of course, no level crossings of any description on high speed lines.

 

[Richard Scott]

Certainly GB, for all its faults, does (reasonably) level boarding, accessibility and staffing well compared to many other countries. Safety is definitely higher up the agenda, too.

We're also fairly customer friendly compared to quite a few networks.

Having travelled on trains in most European countries the UK does fare quite well, there's lots we moan about but two things have stood out to me which are our attitude to assisting people with disabilities and staff presence.
The UK is way ahead than virtually any other country in this, in my past two visits to Germany I helped a blind woman onto a train and on another occasion an elderly lady with mobility issues. Both were at fairly major stations where in UK assistance would have been provided.
On another visit to Germany the ever reliable(!) 406 ICE train struck and landed a number of us at Monchengladbach station to make our way to our destination. The number of DB staff around to help was zero. Wouldn't happen in UK.
Also on Paris Metro, service was suspended and we were just sent out of the station, no rail replacement bus. It was walk or nothing.
There may be lots wrong with UK system but there's an awful lot that's right and we take it for granted. When people travel around Europe it's so infrequent chances of an issue are slight, when you've travelled a lot you realise how poor customer care often is in mainland Europe.

 

[Meerkat]

The lack of fences in Europe always seems very weird to me. The idea of having a garden that becomes someone’s field and then a railway, all without fences just isn’t right to an Englishman needing walls round his castle!
And being used to fairly extreme safety standards in the UK driving along a road where the verge is the ballast of an unfenced railway is definitely weird!

 

[RichJF]

I may be totally incorrect, but when the railways were built Slovenia, Croatia, etc. didn't exist as independent countries and were part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. As it happens, Zidani Most is roughly on the border between the Austrian and Hungarian parts of the Empire.
It may well be that the Austrian half built for left-hand running and the Hungarian part for right-hand running. When the railways were originally built, they would have been built as single track, so the issue of "changing sides" at a frontier would not have been a problem.

Slovenia uses left-hand running due it being part of many different nations prior to 1991. It was always a quirk of Yugoslavia, with some E.626 locos being sent as WW2 reparations too. It helps there's lots of mainline single track, so you can switch sides based on which country the rail connection is closest too.

Slovenia uses 3kv DC overhead electrification thanks to the old cross-border connections to the Italian network via the Sežana-Pivka-Postojna and Pivka-Ilirska Bistrica-Šapjane lines. The rest of the electrification used the 3kv system to retain compatibility in Slovenia. Loco changes take place when trains travel to Austria, Croatia or Hungary if the loco is not multi-voltage capable.

 

[blotred]

For me, the most noticeable difference is how narrow UK trains are due to the loading gauge compared to at least in Germany, Switzerland, France, Italy.
When I go to the UK, I really notice the difference in the width of the carriage... it may not be much, but I definitely notice it.

Also I can't speak for neighbouring countries, but I very much get used to trains having fixed platforms at major/terminal stations in Switzerland.
I get a push notification if the train departs from a different platform, but my regular IC3 from Zurich to Basel pretty reliably leaves from Zurich Platform 16, and if the timetable says Gleis 8, I can be confident it will usually leave from Gleis 8.
Whereas when I am back in the UK I have to be really vigilant as to which platform the train may leave from even if it is the same train on different days (though my experience is mainly from major stations in London such as Euston, Victoria, East Croydon... it wouldn't be a problem at normal through stations)

 

[geoffk]

The lack of fences in Europe always seems very weird to me. The idea of having a garden that becomes someone’s field and then a railway, all without fences just isn’t right to an Englishman needing walls round his castle!
And being used to fairly extreme safety standards in the UK driving along a road where the verge is the ballast of an unfenced railway is definitely weird!

I imagine the local population understands that playing on a railway isn't a great idea. I read that the reason fencing became mandatory in the UK wasn't to stop people and animals straying on to the track but to stop the navvies building the line from going on to a landowner's property, stealing their crops and running off with their daughters!

 

[realemil]

One thing that I notice / noticed is that some "stations" is just a sign plopped down in the middle of nowhere. Or, when trains do stop at a "station", half the train isn't on a "platform" and passengers simply walk straight across tracks to get to the exit.

In the UK safety is a huge thing compared to Europe, where people on the tracks seems to be "common", even so much that people will let you walk around depots etc if you're friendly enough

edit:
Train surfing is also quite "popular" in the EU, so much so that you can watch it yourself haha, https://www.youtube.com/@shiey

 

[Oxfordblues]

Travelling on the Moskva-Beijing train through Siberia we passed a wayside halt. On the platform lay what appeared to be a dead body. The train didn't slow down or stop. Clearly punctuality was more important than the fate of a member of the proletariat! Can you imagine a fatality on UK railways having zero effect on performance?

We passed a few long freight trains which had been stopped on the main line while we took the slow loop line to get past. Counterintuitive to say the least!

One night on board the Calais-Ventimiglia sleeper circumnavigating central Paris on the Grande Ceinture I leaned out observe that we were closely following at about 30kmh another slow-moving train no more than 200m ahead. Talk about "permissive working"! Unimaginable in the UK, especially during fog and falling snow!

 

[The exile]

Another difference will be the laws relating to public rights of way. Although most foot crossings at stations in Britain have been removed, there are many crossings in rural areas especially. Germany has something like a "right to roam" but with restrictions. I don't remember seeing any footpaths across railways on any of my European trips. Anyone know more?

Think Britain’s network of public footpaths (with “right of way” protected in law even though the actual purpose of the path may have been lost centuries before) is “one of a kind”. The bureaucracy required to divert / close a right of way is not inconsiderable.

 

[signed]

Also on Paris Metro, service was suspended and we were just sent out of the station, no rail replacement bus. It was walk or nothing.

Are there RRB on LU?

The extensiveness of the Paris Metro network means that you don't really need any replacement system, especially when travelling in Zone 1, apart from very long term or planned closure. That attitude is very much understandable though our (the French) customer service culture is definitely not the best.

If you can't walk that much, there is assuredly a bus that can ferry you to the nearest metro station.

 

[Richard Scott]

Are there RRB on LU?

The extensiveness of the Paris Metro network means that you don't really need any replacement system, especially when travelling in Zone 1, apart from very long term or planned closure. That attitude is very much understandable though our (the French) customer service culture is definitely not the best.

If you can't walk that much, there is assuredly a bus that can ferry you to the nearest metro station.

I've certainly had them.
In this case it's extensiveness was useless as two stops short of end of the line. No information on where to get a bus or even how to get there on foot. Very poor.

 

[signed]

I've certainly had them.
In this case it's extensiveness was useless as two stops short of end of the line. No information on where to get a bus or even how to get there on foot. Very poor.

That's a fair assessment for sure

 

[Richard Scott]

That's a fair assessment for sure

Thanks, it was in days before Google maps etc, luckily I had a digital camera and had taken a picture of a street map so found my way but had no idea where I was or even which way to go. We found our way by using the map but would have been lost, literally, without it.