Caledonian Sleeper

[lachlan]

Depends whether the passenger is an early riser or not I reckon.

And where you're going/reasons for travel. Arriving into Aberdeen before 8am isn't very fun when nothing is open!

I travel on the sleeper from time to time and almost always leave just before the time limit. I never feel pressured into doing so - sometimes you get a friendly reminder that it will be time to get off soon but that seems reasonable to me.

One time we weren't quite ready and the pressure starts being added quick if you're not off as soon as the train has arrived

 

[Scotrail84]

And where you're going/reasons for travel. Arriving into Aberdeen before 8am isn't very fun when nothing is open!

One time we weren't quite ready and the pressure starts being added quick if you're not off as soon as the train has arrived

If you're arriving into London on the highlander then you absolutely should be ready to go as its a 07:47 arrival and everyone needs to be off before 8am, same when arriving into Inverness or Fort William, its virtually off on arrival. No excuses for anyone not to be ready as all passengers are woken in plenty time by the host.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Thanks for the replies and links.
EUS left luggage opens at 7:00am so I would not want to be hanging about waiting for that. I wasn’t considering waiting until the last minute just to annoy people.

 

[Krokodil]

If you're arriving into London on the highlander then you absolutely should be ready to go as its a 07:47 arrival and everyone needs to be off before 8am, same when arriving into Inverness or Fort William, its virtually off on arrival. No excuses for anyone not to be ready as all passengers are woken in plenty time by the host.

That one doesn‘t tend to arrive early anyway so the question of being turfed off long before the "vacate by" time doesn't really come into it.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

39 early at EUS this morning and so far (7:00 am) no one has come tapping on doors. We'll be off shortly anyway. Thanks for the contribution!

 

[norbitonflyer]

And where you're going/reasons for travel. Arriving into Aberdeen before 8am isn't very fun when nothing is open!

Been to Edinburgh a few times - again there's little to do at 7:30am, but for two of those trips the Edinburgh was full so we had to book to Glasgow which neatly solved the problem - by the time you have got to Edinburgh (via Carstairs or Shotts, to avoid having to trek to Queen Street) things are starting to wake up.

 

[Bill57p9]

Been to Edinburgh a few times - again there's little to do at 7:30am, but for two of those trips the Edinburgh was full so we had to book to Glasgow which neatly solved the problem - by the time you have got to Edinburgh (via Carstairs or Shotts, to avoid having to trek to Queen Street) things are starting to wake up.

And the down Glasgow never* seems to arrive substantially early, presumably due to pathing.

* With the exceptions of ECML diversions and when CS add an hour to the advertised arrival time.

 

[Scotrail84]

39 early at EUS this morning and so far (7:00 am) no one has come tapping on doors. We'll be off shortly anyway. Thanks for the contribution!

You're lucky, looks like both Highlander services have ran in trouble last night, M16 90 down and the NB Inverness and Fort William services around 60 late.

And the down Glasgow never* seems to arrive substantially early, presumably due to pathing.

* With the exceptions of ECML diversions and when CS add an hour to the advertised arrival time.

It can't as platform 1 in Central pretty much still occupied until a few minutes before it arrives, it does on occasion arrive into platform 2 or 10 but this is mainly when it is late.

 

[John Bishop]

You're lucky, looks like both Highlander services have ran in trouble last night, M16 90 down and the NB Inverness and Fort William services around 60 late.


It can't as platform 1 in Central pretty much still occupied until a few minutes before it arrives, it does on occasion arrive into platform 2 or 10 but this is mainly when it is late.

The UP Aberdeen portion failed outside Edinburgh this morning and had to be rescued by locos off the Inverness portion.

 

[Scotrail84]

The UP Aberdeen portion failed outside Edinburgh this morning and had to be rescued by locos off the Inverness portion.

Another class 73 master class or was it the coaches?

 

[John Bishop]

Another class 73 master class or was it the coaches?

Loco failure.

 

[Scotrail84]

Loco failure.

Standard. Terrible reliability. The sleeper will be itching to get those new locos asap.

 

[Alvin_official]

The UP Aberdeen portion failed outside Edinburgh this morning and had to be rescued by locos off the Inverness portion.

That'll might explain the lone class 73 driving into platform 6 whilst I was waiting on the LNER service at 09:30 this morning.

 

[JonathanH]

That'll might explain the lone class 73 driving into platform 6 whilst I was waiting on the LNER service at 09:30 this morning.

And explains why 66737 went to Inverness and 66746 went to Fort William this morning with their respective 73s, instead of the other way round.

 

[Elecman]

Standard. Terrible reliability. The sleeper will be itching to get those new locos asap.

What new locos?

 

[Scotrail84]

What new locos?

DRS are getting class 99s or something aren't they? Bio modes?

 

[Class15]

DRS are getting class 99s or something aren't they? Bio modes?

They’re freight locos. And they’re GBRf.

 

[800001]

DRS are getting class 99s or something aren't they? Bio modes?

Gbrf are getting 99s but they are not suitable to work the sleepers.

 

[Scotrail84]

Gbrf are getting 99s but they are not suitable to work the sleepers.

Sorry, my mistake, I knew it was GB that hauled the sleepers - dunno why I said DRS.

Really? new locos and they're not suitable? I thought that was the plan to replace the 73s due to the Scots gov wanting net zero. Are the 99s not capable of supplying the ETH required for the coaches?

 

[800001]

Sorry, my mistake, I knew it was GB that hauled the sleepers - dunno why I said DRS.

Really? new locos and they're not suitable? I thought that was the plan to replace the 73s due to the Scots gov wanting net zero. Are the 99s not capable of supplying the ETH required for the coaches?

The quote below is taken from the October Modern Railways:-

A small redesign would be needed so the locos could provide hotel power for the Mk5 carriages, and whilst an option was presented to Caledonian Sleeper for this, the timing was not right for it to be exercised.

 

[Scotrail84]

The quote below is taken from the October Modern Railways:-

A small redesign would be needed so the locos could provide hotel power for the Mk5 carriages, and whilst an option was presented to Caledonian Sleeper for this, the timing was not right for it to be exercised.

That reads as if the sleeper knocked back the redesign option?

 

[xotGD]

Sorry, my mistake, I knew it was GB that hauled the sleepers - dunno why I said DRS.

Really? new locos and they're not suitable? I thought that was the plan to replace the 73s due to the Scots gov wanting net zero. Are the 99s not capable of supplying the ETH required for the coaches?

99s running on diesel wouldn't make a difference in meeting Net Zero.

Running the 73s on biofuel of some description is the easiest way to achieve that.

There is much talk of SAF - Sustainable Aviation Fuel - at the moment. Sustainable Rail Fuel can be produced by the same technology pathways.

 

[alistairlees]

I don’t expect it was free

 

[paul1609]

The quote below is taken from the October Modern Railways:-

A small redesign would be needed so the locos could provide hotel power for the Mk5 carriages, and whilst an option was presented to Caledonian Sleeper for this, the timing was not right for it to be exercised.

It might be able to provide hotel power with a small redesign but the fact that a 99 on diesel has only 500 bhp more than and weighs nearly twice as much as as a 73/9 suggests that it's really not at all suitable for hauling the sleeper off the electrified network (ie as a replacement for the 73/9). I'm not sure how much of the domestic Scots electrification can support 6MW AC locos either.

 

[ajrm]

It might be able to provide hotel power with a small redesign but the fact that a 99 on diesel has only 500 bhp more than and weighs nearly twice as much as as a 73/9 suggests that it's really not at all suitable for hauling the sleeper off the electrified network (ie as a replacement for the 73/9). I'm not sure how much of the domestic Scots electrification can support 6MW AC locos either.

Quite. And then there's the dubious economics of having two brand new complicated bi-mode locos only ever working in diesel and hanging around for 18 hours a day doing nothing...

 

[BRX]

Is there any kind of plan or project to improve the reliability of the 73s?
What tends to be the problem with them, anyway? I got the impression when they were first introduced that they were considered quite successful but that evidently hasn't continued to be the case.

 

[Scotrail84]

Is there any kind of plan or project to improve the reliability of the 73s?
What tends to be the problem with them, anyway? I got the impression when they were first introduced that they were considered quite successful but that evidently hasn't continued to be the case.

They can barely pull the skin off a rice pudding. They suffer from ETH drop outs a lot and when working with a 66 this can't be resolved until the next station. Much like the 92s that went through brush works, they seem to be very unreliable for months but then seem to do ok at other times. It's likely a few 73s will suffer from wheel flats soon as well as leaf fall season is starting. Thats always been a problem with them.

I see one ran light from Craigentinny to Aberdeen earlier today for tonights southbound 1B16, which left Aberdeen 20 late although I don't know if this was loco related or not.

 

[BRX]

They can barely pull the skin off a rice pudding.

As in, not meeting what they were specified to be able to do?

 

[Scotrail84]

As in, not meeting what they were specified to be able to do?

I just don't think they're great engines overall.

 

[Scotrail84]

Are the 73s and 92s a long term or stop gap solution until more advanced locomotives become available?

Theres no other locos around capable of hauling the sleepers or supplying the ETH so until such times there are new locos available that can provide ETH and have suitable delner couplers then the sleepers are stuck with the 73s and 92s. Both of which have their problems.

They were certainly intended as a long term solution: significant sums of money was spent converting/refurbishing (respectively) them specifically for the Caledonian Sleeper work.

Obviously plans can change with time, and whilst the 73/9s have been somewhat underwhelming on the sleeper, I don't see a viable replacement in the pipeline.

As far as I know, the 92s are meeting expectations - or am I missing something?

Ultimately GBRf are contracted to supply traction for the sleeper so it really is down to them what they supply. From a traction management perspective I suspect the only significant drawback of the current arrangement is the number of 66s it ties up.

One of the 92s failed at Carsairs last week causing a lengthy delay to 1B26. They seem to suffer from traction motor issues and pans dropping etc. I don't think they are as reliable as you think. I've no inside knowledge mind you, only hear things from time to time.