Caledonian Sleeper

[Scotrail84]

More sleeper trouble tonight with the Edinburgh - Euston portion 'cancelled' for some reason.

 

[JModulo]

More sleeper trouble tonight with the Edinburgh - Euston portion 'cancelled' for some reason.

Issues with the stock.

 

[Scotrail84]

Issues with the stock.

Thats twice in a week faults with the stock has caused a cancellation.

 

[Krokodil]

Thats twice in a week faults with the stock has caused a cancellation.

Remind me what "CAF" stands for?

 

[PG]

Presumably with the sleepers now being in public ownership they are subject to FOI requests, the same as the OLR TOCs?

 

[Scotrail84]

Remind me what "CAF" stands for?

I don think you need reminding.

Presumably with the sleepers now being in public ownership they are subject to FOI requests, the same as the OLR TOCs?

I'd assume so, but what sort of info would you want to request?

 

[PG]

I'd assume so, but what sort of info would you want to request?

Maybe information on causes of cancellations for example, to try and ascertain whether they were things within CS control.

 

[Carntyne]

Maybe information on causes of cancellations for example, to try and ascertain whether they were things within CS control.

Well both this week have been faults with the train, so there's your answer. Why bother with an FOI?

 

[Scotrail84]

Maybe information on causes of cancellations for example, to try and ascertain whether they were things within CS control.

I think we all know that the sleepers fleet of coaches are riddled with issues, and have been since day one. You'd have thought if they were able to resolve the issues then they would have by now 6 years in. Add in the fact the 73s are problematic and have never really been totally reliable since going through brush for a rebuild as well as the 92s which have constant traction motor issues and pans randomly dropping etc. Their fleet of coaches is stretched to the max, they need every available coach in service each night or they will have capacity issues, that comes from booking the train to the max leaving zero wriggle room for when problems do occur. Put it all together and you get a giant recipe for disaster.

 

[deepthought]

Problems with the stock again apparently with the Glasgow portion of the lowlander cancelled.
RTT showing 1S26 as running to Carstairs so I assume the Edinburgh part is running. Info from the Caledonian Sleeper website.

 

[Class385]

Problems with the stock again apparently with the Glasgow portion of the lowlander cancelled.
RTT showing 1S26 as running to Carstairs so I assume the Edinburgh part is running. Info from the Caledonian Sleeper website.

C11 never went south on Friday night so presume there isn’t the stock in Wembley for both s26/b26

 

[Scotrail84]

C11 never went south on Friday night so presume there isn’t the stock in Wembley for both s26/b26

Either that set is totally knackered and they've not been able to fix it over the weekend, or they've been unable to source a loco/driver to run it empty to Wembley for tonights service. Not a good couple of weeks for the sleeper with several mega delays and cancellations. This is what happens when when you rely on 100% of your fleet being available every night to run a full service. Its madness.

 

[jagardner1984]

There is presumably a conflict between the engineering logical position, which would be to reduce formations to allow for some of these issues to be resolved more fully (some obvious inherent design flaws presumably will remain for the life of the stock) … and the bean counters looking at the eye watering public subsidy and want to maximise revenue.

Both positions logical but there is an obvious conflict.

One wonders whether the assumptions as to the lifespan of modern rolling stock, based on other stock introduced around the same time as the Mk5, will prove to be the case with these. Certainly on the build-withdrawal span of CS Mk3, let alone the Night Riviera stock still in daily use, for them to be travelling upwards of 1000 miles every 36 hours in late 2054, feels to this non engineering brain, rather ambitious.

I guess we will all be surprised if there is much sleeper service to speak of by then, so perhaps it will be irrelevant, but nonetheless.

 

[Scotrail84]

There is presumably a conflict between the engineering logical position, which would be to reduce formations to allow for some of these issues to be resolved more fully (some obvious inherent design flaws presumably will remain for the life of the stock) … and the bean counters looking at the eye watering public subsidy and want to maximise revenue.

Both positions logical but there is an obvious conflict.

One wonders whether the assumptions as to the lifespan of modern rolling stock, based on other stock introduced around the same time as the Mk5, will prove to be the case with these. Certainly on the build-withdrawal span of CS Mk3, let alone the Night Riviera stock still in daily use, for them to be travelling upwards of 1000 miles every 36 hours in late 2054, feels to this non engineering brain, rather ambitious.

I guess we will all be surprised if there is much sleeper service to speak of by then, so perhaps it will be irrelevant, but nonetheless.

These sleeper coaches will not last until 2030 at this rate in their current condition, they already need an overhaul and don't be surprised if CS start doing this in the traditional quieter months of patronage. They're advertised as being 'luxury'. They are anything but that, not even an upgrade on the MK3s imo. Cold, noisy, rattly, riddled with water issues as well other problems like the on board computers playing silly buggers. Have they not recently taken tables away or something as well?

 

[BRX]

Although I miss the mk3s and am not a big fan of the mk5s, I think it's easy reading this thread to get an impression that they are constantly failing and causing big issues which is a little exaggerated compared to reality.

I've travelled on them several times in the last couple of years and also know a couple of others who use them, and generally journeys seem fairly uneventful.

 

[fraser158]

These sleeper coaches will not last until 2030 at this rate in their current condition, they already need an overhaul and don't be surprised if CS start doing this in the traditional quieter months of patronage. They're advertised as being 'luxury'. They are anything but that, not even an upgrade on the MK3s imo. Cold, noisy, rattly, riddled with water issues as well other problems like the on board computers playing silly buggers. Have they not recently taken tables away or something as well?

Yes, according to their “X”, all of the tables have been removed from the rooms.

They said it was due to them coming off of the runner.

I’m not sure how the room service would work without it. Sit the food on the bed?

 

[JamieL]

They're advertised as being 'luxury'. They are anything but that, not even an upgrade on the MK3s imo. Cold, noisy, rattly, riddled with water issues as well other problems like the on board computers playing silly buggers.

Whilst I wouldn't describe the cabins as luxury, personally I find the CS a very comfortable and reliable way to travel. I use the service about a dozen times a year and can't say I have experienced the rattles, heat (or lack of) or water issues. I was delayed once, when the train broke down in Dumbarton, but as I was only going to Helensburgh, this wasn't really an inconvenience.

I appreciate everyone has different tolerances for such things but IMHO the CS is the best long distance train service in the UK and so convenient.

 

[Scotrail84]

Although I miss the mk3s and am not a big fan of the mk5s, I think it's easy reading this thread to get an impression that they are constantly failing and causing big issues which is a little exaggerated compared to reality.

I've travelled on them several times in the last couple of years and also know a couple of others who use them, and generally journeys seem fairly uneventful.

On average theres at least major delay or issue a week. Thats a lot.

The MK5s are a very poor design, very poor built quality and very poor for both passengers and crew comfort. Try sitting on one of those seats overnight for 12 hours and say it's comfy and quiet. They tried to make market it as a 'hotel', another big mistake. It's a train, that gets you from At to B and thats all it ever will be. You can polish a turd but its still a turd.

 

[SuspectUsual]

The MK5s are a very poor design

That’s the thing. Did they not test their design on their staff and/or passengers? Or were they designed to a price?

 

[Struner]

Whilst I wouldn't describe the cabins as luxury, personally I find the CS a very comfortable and reliable way to travel. I use the service about a dozen times a year and can't say I have experienced the rattles, heat (or lack of) or water issues. I was delayed once, when the train broke down in Dumbarton, but as I was only going to Helensburgh, this wasn't really an inconvenience.

I appreciate everyone has different tolerances for such things but IMHO the CS is the best long distance train service in the UK and so convenient.

Indeed, you were only going to Helensburgh (15’ by train) - how many others were ?
What about people on their way to destinations beyond Crianlarich - whether the Oban line or the Fort line, let alone connections beyond the Fort?
Same goes for connections beyond Inverness of course.
The major advantage of a nighttrain is the convenience of a through train, but you shouldn’t rely on arrival times to plan your connection. & I don’t think the extra cost of getting there, let alone missed appointments, will be fully compensated

 

[Scotrail84]

Yes, according to their “X”, all of the tables have been removed from the rooms.

They said it was due to them coming off of the runner.

I’m not sure how the room service would work without it. Sit the food on the bed?

I doubt they'll be able to serve hot food in rooms without a table to put it on.

That’s the thing. Did they not test their design on their staff and/or passengers? Or were they designed to a price?

They were a rushed production, CAF were the only manufacturers who could guarantee the coaches being built and delivered within the timeframe the Scots Government/Serco wanted, thats come at a major cost though. Shoddy workmanship, major design issues, major defects, major delays and cancellations as a result. The whole idea of showers and shoe polishers etc is laughable. 6 years in and the same faults from day still exist now. They need scrapped, but a £2m per coach and a total of £150m for the fleet they are going nowhere anytime soon. Theres also few vehicles out of traffic long term because of cracking issues. The same as the TPE sets.

They went on test in the Czech Republic, I doubt if any sleeper staff were over there to test them out.

 

[paul1609]

Indeed, you were only going to Helensburgh (15’ by train) - how many others were ?
What about people on their way to destinations beyond Crianlarich - whether the Oban line or the Fort line, let alone connections beyond the Fort?
Same goes for connections beyond Inverness of course.
The major advantage of a nighttrain is the convenience of a through train, but you shouldn’t rely on arrival times to plan your connection. & I don’t think the extra cost of getting there, let alone missed appointments, will be fully compensated

Im 5 years out of date with the sleeper now, but then 95% of the passengers were catching it as an experience. Dumbarton will have been chosen as the terminating station because it has a spare platform and also its proximity to the A 82 means that replacement road transport can be provided. For all but Courrour and Rannoch the journeytime will be quicker by road than by train. In fact a lot of the intermediate stations generally normally dont have any sleeper passengers at all. Id used Garelochead as my station and in excess of 25 years Id never seen anybody else get on or off the sleeper there.

 

[Scotrail84]

Im 5 years out of date with the sleeper now, but then 95% of the passengers were catching it as an experience. Dumbarton will have been chosen as the terminating station because it has a spare platform and also its proximity to the A 82 means that replacement road transport can be provided. For all but Courrour and Rannoch the journeytime will be quicker by road than by train. In fact a lot of the intermediate stations generally normally dont have any sleeper passengers at all. Id used Garelochead as my station and in excess of 25 years Id never seen anybody else get on or off the sleeper there.

It's one of the lesser used stations on that route. If they could get away with it, they would stop at half these stations as most of them are a waste of time.

 

[Kite159]

They went on test in the Czech Republic, I doubt if any sleeper staff were over there to test them out.

And I suspect the track in the Czech Republic where they were tested was a lot better quality than the typical track found in this country.

 

[Scotrail84]

And I suspect the track in the Czech Republic where they were tested was a lot better quality than the typical track found in this country.

I've never been on a train in the Czech republic but the answer is almost certainly yes!

 

[Travelmonkey]

It is ironic for trains tested in the Czech Republic they wern't fully checked. As I commented in the Euston thread 1 step forward 2 steps back, I have a bed & a seat booked next month to head up for one last chance at some HST millage, hopefully neither leg fails me. Question for those displaced to Avanti what class to they sit in.

One would think
Club/disabled=1st
Classic=SP
Seat=standard

Or are you deposited into standard for your now downgraded trip.

 

[Scotrail84]

It is ironic for trains tested in the Czech Republic they wern't fully checked. As I commented in the Euston thread 1 step forward 2 steps back, I have a bed & a seat booked next month to head up for one last chance at some HST millage, hopefully neither leg fails me. Question for those displaced to Avanti what class to they sit in.

One would think
Club/disabled=1st
Classic=SP
Seat=standard

Or are you deposited into standard for your now downgraded trip.

Ticket acceptance only gets those displaced from the sleeper on a train, it doesn't in any way guarantee any of them first class travel and they would have to vacate if paying Avanti passengers needed the seat, or if requested to do so by the guard. You can guarantee there will be some self entitlement displaced sleeper passengers though.

 

[Travelmonkey]

Ticket acceptance only gets those displaced from the sleeper on a train, it doesn't in any way guarantee any of them first class travel and they would have to vacate if paying Avanti passengers needed the seat, or if requested to do so by the guard. You can guarantee there will be some self entitlement from displaced sleeper passengers though.

I know I'd at least be chancing it for SP if I'm let down by my train,

 

[Scotrail84]

I know I'd at least be chancing it for SP if I'm let down by my train,

Any company is always going to look after their own passengers first, and rightly so. If you look at the sleepers twitter page you'll see a passenger tearing into them because they had to stand all the way to London on an LNER service from Edinburgh on Saturday morning.

 

[Travelmonkey]

Any company is always going to look after their own passengers first, and rightly so. If you look at the sleepers twitter page you'll see a passenger tearing into them because they had to stand all the way to London on an LNER service from Edinburgh on Saturday morning.

Yeah I'd not be able to do that, I'd at least be sitting on floor using my cane as trip hazard