Wrexham, Shropshire & Midlands Railway updates

[The Planner]

Are diversionary routes factored in or do OA trains just not run in the event of engineering works, landslips etc...?

Id expect them to learn most of the West Mids diversions. If the WCML is shut then they will probably terminate at Nuneaton.

 

[victormildrew]

With the labour party wanting to bring the railways back in house, will that affect the applications for open access such as WSMR being granted a licence to run trains?.

 

[alistairlees]

With the labour party wanting to bring the railways back in house, will that affect the applications for open access such as WSMR being granted a licence to run trains?.

It is not expected to.

 

[185]

With the labour party wanting to bring the railways back in house, will that affect the applications for open access such as WSMR being granted a licence to run trains?.

I'd say, less likely to be blocked, as it's a genuine Open Access Operator picking up at new places, unlike a parasite Open Access Operator which picks up 99% of it's customers from an existing operator's stations stealing money otherwise destined for the DfT.

Lumo Cough.

 

[victormildrew]

I would have thought that, as open access does not rely on tax payers money.

 

[XCTurbostar]

It is not expected to.

I agree, competition is good and it’s even better if it connects termini to stations which aren’t currently connected. Labour want the railways to work and clearly more OA will demonstrate that the railways have opportunity.

 

[The Planner]

I'd say, less likely to be blocked, as it's a genuine Open Access Operator picking up at new places, unlike a parasite Open Access Operator which picks up 99% of it's customers from an existing operator's stations stealing money otherwise destined for the DfT.

Lumo Cough.

So its not abstracting betwen Shrewsbury and Wolves, as well as Nuneaton, Milton Keynes and Euston?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It all depends on how paths out of Euston are allocated, between the various applicants (GBR or OA) in the new railway structure.
Avanti and WMT will find themselves in the GBR umbrella over time, possibly within 12 months depending on Avanti performance.
So after that it depends who GBR put in charge of the WCML and what public services they decide are going to be run.
Having eliminated diesel operation from Euston, the OA proposals will bring it beck, using some of the cascaded Voyagers.

 

[Zontar]

Nothing much in terms of progress, but an endorsement from Wrexham council.

Direct train service from Wrexham to London edging ever closer

If successful the new service will create 50 jobs and the first trains should depart in summer 2025.

www.leaderlive.co.uk

 

[nwales58]

"Edging closer" = waiting for ORR to approve paths?

 

[Mollman]

"Edging closer" = waiting for ORR to approve paths?

Yes as they are competing against First and Virgin for paths into Euston

 

[Zontar]

Yes as they are competing against First and Virgin for paths into Euston

And grand union who have applied for Stirling to London also.

 

[ShadowKnight]

Id expect them to learn most of the West Mids diversions. If the WCML is shut then they will probably terminate at Nuneaton.

I would suggest also they may look at diverting to Marylebone in the case of the south WCML being closed via Kenilworth.

Like when Hull Trains divert to St Pancras when kings cross is out of action. I imagine the frequency of service is low enough to not impact Chiltern services much.

 

[Horizon22]

Yes as they are competing against First and Virgin for paths into Euston

I know it's limited but surely GWR's diversions into Euston for OOC blocks will also play a tiny part?

 

[John R]

And grand union who have applied for Stirling to London also.

They have four return paths approved by ORR, so are ahead of the game.

 

[Snow1964]

Another article from Wrexham.com news
The strong basis appears to be current inadequate and unreliable service

A three hour journey from Wrexham to London is “a step closer today” following a very positive meeting between Wrexham Council and the Wrexham, Shropshire and Midlands Railway Company Ltd who are proposing an Open Access Service that can get you to the heart of London in three hours.

The Leader of the Council, Cllr Mark Pritchard and Deputy Leader, Cllr David A Bithell both attended and heard proposals for the service which have been submitted to the Office of Rail and Road’s Chief Executive, John Larkinson.

Following the meeting a letter from Cllr David A Bithell, Deputy Leader with responsibility for strategic transport, in full support of the plans has been sent to the ORR Chief Executive David Larkinson. The letter outlined that since the last open access service operated in Wrexham the services offered were not fit for purpose with poor reliability, frequent cancellations and a substandard level of services to passengers.

The letter encourages the ORR to endorse the proposals as soon as practical allowing residents and visitors to Wrexham and the wider North Wales region a genuine public transport offer that will meet current demands and ambitions.

Cllr David A Bithell, said, “I am in full support of the application by WSMR which will see regular timetabled journeys from Wrexham to London Euston.

“The current service is inadequate and given the national and international interest in Wrexham a sustainable and reliable service is essential. I hope the Office of Rail and Road look very favourably on the application.
Leader of the Council, Cllr Mark Pritchard, who attended a recent meeting endorses the application and said, “Residents and visitors to Wrexham deserve a high quality rail service that will serve not only Wrexham but the wider North Wales area.

“I would like to thank WSMR for their valuable time in updating us on their proposals and fully endorse their plans for the future.”

If successful the new service will create 50 jobs and the first trains should depart in summer 2025.

Return of Wrexham to London Trains “a real possibility” – with a possible 50 jobs created

www.wrexham.com

 

[The Planner]

I would suggest also they may look at diverting to Marylebone in the case of the south WCML being closed via Kenilworth.

Like when Hull Trains divert to St Pancras when kings cross is out of action. I imagine the frequency of service is low enough to not impact Chiltern services much.

Doubt it to be honest.

I know it's limited but surely GWR's diversions into Euston for OOC blocks will also play a tiny part?

No, those will always be STP paths so whilst things will get flexed, i suspect the OA path would stay.

 

[Zontar]

They have four return paths approved by ORR, so are ahead of the game.

Oh I've missed that one! I'll try and look it up

 

[New York Giant]

Oh I've missed that one! I'll try and look it up

Their homepage is now says "new website will be available soon"

 

[Horizon22]

They have put out an advert for qualified drivers:

WSMR - Qualified Drivers - London & N.Wales (22/08/24)

Qualified Drivers and Driver Manager role advertised. https://career5.successfactors.eu/sfcareer/jobreqcareerpvt?jobId=461308&company=ALSTOM&st=ECE3F4E124574DA8E576CF52A19EF5EAFA64069E

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[Zontar]

Any updates going around?
Anyone who applied for jobs heard anything?
All seems to be cutting it fine for a may 2025 start.

 

[The Planner]

Any updates going around?
Anyone who applied for jobs heard anything?
All seems to be cutting it fine for a may 2025 start.

Not a chance are they doing May 25.

 

[tiptoptaff]

Not a chance are they doing May 25.

2125 ?

 

[Bob Price]

All these Open Access operators come in and announce time scales which don't seem to be achievable. Grand Union were supposed to be running their South Wales to Paddington services by now. Not a single unit has been built yet. I don't get why they do it.

 

[JonathanH]

All these Open Access operators come in and announce time scales which don't seem to be achievable.

In many cases, even getting to the point of approval appears no more than an aspiration, let alone running actual services.

I don't get why they do it.

Naivety about what is involved? A desire to get backing from decision makers and funders?

In most cases, the open access aspirations do seem to be a case of 'I'll believe it when the service starts running'.

 

[Snow1964]

All these Open Access operators come in and announce time scales which don't seem to be achievable. Grand Union were supposed to be running their South Wales to Paddington services by now. Not a single unit has been built yet. I don't get why they do it.

Although to be fair, often seem to be waiting months (perhaps 12+ months), rather than a few days to get what is ultimately a yes or no (approved or rejected) answer from regulatory authorities.

Perhaps the blame should be directed at the glacial pace of paperwork, rather than a new entrants aim to move people and offer a service to fill a gap. Clearly anyone still awaiting approval decision can't sign any stock leases or hire the staff.

 

[Zontar]

Although to be fair, often seem to be waiting months (perhaps 12+ months), rather than a few days to get what is ultimately a yes or no (approved or rejected) answer from regulatory authorities.

Perhaps the blame should be directed at the glacial pace of paperwork, rather than a new entrants aim to move people and offer a service to fill a gap. Clearly anyone still awaiting approval decision can't sign any stock leases or hire the staff.

I agree. And ironically preventing a (potentially) improved service for customers.

If their preferred stock isn't available it's a new headache.

 

[John R]

Although to be fair, often seem to be waiting months (perhaps 12+ months), rather than a few days to get what is ultimately a yes or no (approved or rejected) answer from regulatory authorities.

Perhaps the blame should be directed at the glacial pace of paperwork, rather than a new entrants aim to move people and offer a service to fill a gap. Clearly anyone still awaiting approval decision can't sign any stock leases or hire the staff.

But in Grand Union's case, they got approval from the ORR in Dec 22 for a Dec 24 start. As far as anyone knows they haven't yet procured any rolling stock and are now looking at a 2027 start. Unless they plan to start with "pre-owned" or "much loved" stock, that would appear a push. And if they do plan an interim solution (almost certainly Class 22x), you'd wonder why they haven't agreed anything yet.

Still, at least they have approval from ORR. The prize for the most amateurish proposal to be pursued must go to Go-op, which has been claiming it's about to start services in the South West for around 10 years now, with several different iterations of rolling stock and routes. It's difficult to keep track of what's proposed, but the latest idea is to use Class 153s from Taunton (and maybe Weston-S-M) to Westbury, or maybe Swindon, or maybe even Oxford. Don't hold your breath...

Our planned services

Making vital connections across Somerset and Wiltshire Our proposal for 2025 This shows the route that we plan to operate from the end of 2025 onwards – and which now has the approval of the …

go-op.coop

The core of the service between Taunton and Westbury is shown in purple. This will see six or more trains a day, improving the service levels in growing market towns.

They will also provide much needed connections for services to and from Yeovil, Salisbury and Exeter.

In addition, some services will be extended to Swindon; and we will also enhance travel up the Somerset coast with some extra trains between Taunton and Weston Super Mare.

 

[Wyrleybart]

But in Grand Union's case, they got approval from the ORR in Dec 22 for a Dec 24 start. As far as anyone knows they haven't yet procured any rolling stock and are now looking at a 2027 start. Unless they plan to start with "pre-owned" or "much loved" stock, that would appear a push. And if they do plan an interim solution (almost certainly Class 22x), you'd wonder why they haven't agreed anything yet.

Still, at least they have approval from ORR.

From what I understand the Stirling proposal, which gained ORR approval was for Grand Unon Trains headed by Ian Yeowart. I believe that this organisation (the Stirling part) has been taken over by First Group so maybe there is some delay tothe company changeover.

From a rolling stock perspective I believe there are eight 221s planned to be in the Alstom pool - ie the balance of the ex Avanti fleet after coming off lease from West Coast.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

From what I understand the Stirling proposal, which gained ORR approval was for Grand Unon Trains headed by Ian Yeowart. I believe that this organisation (the Stirling part) has been taken over by First Group so maybe there is some delay tothe company changeover.

From a rolling stock perspective I believe there are eight 221s planned to be in the Alstom pool - ie the balance of the ex Avanti fleet after coming off lease from West Coast.

The Stirling services will be Lumo branded - Lumo is associated with it's 'green credentials' - and that is all I will say on that topic...!

You can't use 25kV electric all the way, but there are other options.....