Smethwickian
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National Express Coaches Discussion
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Eyersey468
Established Member
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Aah thanks
Old Engineer
New Member
Nat Express - Changing coach at Heathrow
Gatwick - Cheltenham changing at Victoria £14-40
Gatwick - Cheltenham on exactly the same coaches but changing at Heathrow £29-80
I understand Heathrow have to earn a crust and that changing there saves more than 2 hrs but doubling the price of the journey just to use a bus stop seem infuriatingly expensive.
Is it all about LHR charges? Is there a workaround?
Gatwick - Cheltenham changing at Victoria £14-40
Gatwick - Cheltenham on exactly the same coaches but changing at Heathrow £29-80
I understand Heathrow have to earn a crust and that changing there saves more than 2 hrs but doubling the price of the journey just to use a bus stop seem infuriatingly expensive.
Is it all about LHR charges? Is there a workaround?
tram21
Member
How can they be the same coaches if it saves 2 hours?
National Express charge higher fares on "airport services" (where the passenger boards or alights at an airport) quite simply because the market will bear it.
Passengers travelling to / from airports have alternatives which themselves are much more costly (for example by car - very high car parking charges, taxi - high fares, rail - not always available).
TravelDream
Member
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- 842
National Express will charge what the market will bear.
As a regular South Wales to London airports user, fares have always been higher to Heathrow than Victoria. To Luton, it's always much cheaper to book Luton Airport to Victoria to South Wales rather than a single ticket going via Heathrow. Less than half the price - though it does take a bit longer.
It's really about convenience. South Wales to Heathrow actually has a 'good connection' as you can change in Paddington or Reading without much bother. But hulking around suitcases is far less preferable than direct connection by coach.
Though fares have always varied a lot depending on competition. When NX had the monopoly, a return was regularly £60 or so. When Megabus came in with frequent buses, fares halved and sub £30 returns were fairly easy to get. Megabus essentially left the market, but Flixbus is on it now. Fares have risen a bit, but not to pre-competition levels.
As a regular South Wales to London airports user, fares have always been higher to Heathrow than Victoria. To Luton, it's always much cheaper to book Luton Airport to Victoria to South Wales rather than a single ticket going via Heathrow. Less than half the price - though it does take a bit longer.
It's really about convenience. South Wales to Heathrow actually has a 'good connection' as you can change in Paddington or Reading without much bother. But hulking around suitcases is far less preferable than direct connection by coach.
Though fares have always varied a lot depending on competition. When NX had the monopoly, a return was regularly £60 or so. When Megabus came in with frequent buses, fares halved and sub £30 returns were fairly easy to get. Megabus essentially left the market, but Flixbus is on it now. Fares have risen a bit, but not to pre-competition levels.
But could you book to Victoria and jump off at Heathrow ? That would be cheaper?
Only if you do not have luggage.
JGurney
Member
Yes, much to the annoyance of those living near Heathrow, as I did for years. Otherwise convenient coach links to places such as Southampton, Bristol, Cardiff or Birmingham were often significantly more expensive than getting the Piccadilly Line into London to catch the same coach at Victoria just to be brought back to Heathrow again. I several times suggested a Heathrow local residents coachcard being introduced.
Smethwickian
Member
You would be in breach of the Conditions of Carriage if you did so without paying the difference in fare. A driver could refuse to retrieve luggage so you might get off at Heathrow but your luggage would be going on to Victoria.
signed
Established Member
NatEx is quoting me £29 for a LHR to Gatwick one-way whereas Flixbus gives me a £12.99 fare. Are the margins on NatEx so small that they need to more than double their competitor's fare?
There is a small risk that no other passengers are getting off at Heathrow.
Revilo
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Would they really do that in practice though?
Eyersey468
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I've no doubt some drivers would
Robertj21a
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It will all be on supply and demand. The more traditional coach user to Heathrow may well be avoiding Flix for a while until they show good patronage - and their own staying longer term.
I may be mistaken but wasn't there a suggestion in an earlier exchange that they were actually checking tickets on arrival at Heathrow now to charge the additional fare where a ticket to Heathrow isn't held?
It can easily be done with the set up at Heathrow Coach Station as their is a gate I think. I do wonder if many people are actually getting when booked to Victoria though.
markymark2000
Established Member
It's one way in and out for Heathrow Coach Station but it's a multi use coach station. Not sure it would be popular amongst Megabus/Flixbus passengers to faff around showing tickets to a NatEx agent, and will a NatEx agent then sit there telling Flix/Megabus passengers who have cut their journey short, that they must pay up? I think given the coach station is used by at least 4 operators (Megabus, Flixbus, NatEx & Oxford Bus Company. Reading buses too at 3am but that's the only trip), I am not sure it would be practical to insist on full ticket checks on arrival.
I think it may be possible, but doubt it is practical.
Depends how full the NatEx bus is against the Flixbus. Flixbus fares can sky rocket sometimes depending on how busy the bus is. Personally, I'd go off Oxford Airline. They run hourly, £15 standard fare. No dynamic pricing, no pre booking. Pay the driver upon boarding with cash or card (or buy online). Only down side is that you don't have a guaranteed place onboard. Unlikely to be an issue but in the event that 50 odd people have the same idea as you, yes possibly there won't be enough space.
Could National Express have partners in the airlines too for airport transfers, and so the fares are higher because airlines will just pay the price rather than shop around? Or even just business people who have missed a flight and the next flight is from Gatwick, people know NatEx provides the most journeys and so they will just pay the very high fare rather than shopping around for cheaper?
Statto
Established Member
Last time i caught the National Express to London the coach went via Heathrow, however National Express had extra staff checking tickets from passengers alighting at Heathrow, each stand in the coach station part of Heathrow are gated too.
It's not only National Express that charges extra to & from Heathrow either, the Oxford Bus Company service The Airline charges extra as well, Adult single is £25, or £35 adult return Oxford - Heathrow, by contrast the Oxford Tube Oxford - London is £14.50 adult single, £22 adult return
ValleyLines142
Established Member
I used the 216 from Cardiff to Bristol Airport on Thursday morning on the 0230 departure.
First and foremost, I haven't been on a coach since before COVID as I now work on the railways so get free train travel however the train wasn't an option at this hour of the day. The coach was immaculate and very comfortable, particularly the one with extra legroom at the back in front of the toilet.
However, I forgot how absolutely diabolical the coach station at Sophia Gardens is. The thought of anyone having to walk down there in the pitch black at that time of the day really does make me shudder (my mother, in a complete moment of madness, actually suggested walking from their house nearly 2 miles away with all our luggage; you can imagine what my response was....).
I ordered an Uber for us and it got us there for 0200. There was a coach in the bay sat in darkness so I gathered that one wasn't ours. What I didn't understand, however, is that at 0229, bearing in mind it had started to rain and there was surprisingly quite a lot of people around waiting for the same service, the driver only then turned the coach on and started boarding passengers, to the point where the coach actually left ten minutes late and there was also a diversion in Bristol as the roads were closed for planned engineering works so we had to divert via Bedminster and Parson Street. In the end we arrived quite late into the airport. I'm guessing perhaps the driver was due a legal PNB which is fair enough but I must admit he did receive quite a bit of grief from the passengers as it had been sat there all this time.
First and foremost, I haven't been on a coach since before COVID as I now work on the railways so get free train travel however the train wasn't an option at this hour of the day. The coach was immaculate and very comfortable, particularly the one with extra legroom at the back in front of the toilet.
However, I forgot how absolutely diabolical the coach station at Sophia Gardens is. The thought of anyone having to walk down there in the pitch black at that time of the day really does make me shudder (my mother, in a complete moment of madness, actually suggested walking from their house nearly 2 miles away with all our luggage; you can imagine what my response was....).
I ordered an Uber for us and it got us there for 0200. There was a coach in the bay sat in darkness so I gathered that one wasn't ours. What I didn't understand, however, is that at 0229, bearing in mind it had started to rain and there was surprisingly quite a lot of people around waiting for the same service, the driver only then turned the coach on and started boarding passengers, to the point where the coach actually left ten minutes late and there was also a diversion in Bristol as the roads were closed for planned engineering works so we had to divert via Bedminster and Parson Street. In the end we arrived quite late into the airport. I'm guessing perhaps the driver was due a legal PNB which is fair enough but I must admit he did receive quite a bit of grief from the passengers as it had been sat there all this time.
markymark2000
Established Member
You can walk between each gate though and exit via another gate further up. Unless they put up temporary barricades between each stand? Also no such provision exists at T4 or T5, only Central Bus Station.
With Oxford Airline, it seems to be a stupidly high fare for any journey which involves travelling over the M40 between Lewknor and High Wycombe. It's reasonably priced either side of this section of M40 but the fare hikes significantly if you travel over this part of the M40.
Flying Snail
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Oxford Tube is an entirely different service run by a different bus company (Stagecoach) so any comparison there is irrelevant.
Many airports charge hefty fees to bus operators for serving their stops.
signed
Established Member
I made that check for a Sunday in 2 months
The £29 fare on NatEx seem to apply to every coach right now, even the 1330 today is £29 whereas some the previous runnings are sold out
FlixBus today only went up to £20
TravelDream
Member
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- 842
I've caught the bus to Heathrow many many times and never had a ticket check when alighting. It's easy enough to go either side of the barrier and just walk off. Especially as the outdoor area can be very crowded with people queuing or waiting for buses.
Plus there are multiple operators.
NX do have staff there helping with ticket checking for those boarding, but that's different.
Flixbus prices vary a lot and can skyrocket seemingly overnight. National Express tickets tend to be more predictable.
Old Engineer
New Member
Thanks for the comments everyone.
I guess I'm a bit surprised as I always imagined airports charged coaches (and everyone else) heavily to let passengers on and off at their airport (on the basis that it's the airport which has the monopoly on access to the location) and coaches naturally had to pass that on. And it seemed a bit much that they charged that for passengers who were just changing coach there. However, it looks like it is is the coach and bus companies taking the 'excess' profit.
After a bit more poking around the web I thought a possible reason for there being no direct service from LGW to Victoria (not going via Heathrow) is that there is good train service.
In fact LGW-Victoria rail station and Victoria coach station to wherever seems cheaper - and sometimes quicker - even if using a Coachcard! Provided you're willing to walk between the two Victorias which I certainly would without luggage. Or indeed with luggage, but my wife doesn't feel quite the same way about that.
I guess I'm a bit surprised as I always imagined airports charged coaches (and everyone else) heavily to let passengers on and off at their airport (on the basis that it's the airport which has the monopoly on access to the location) and coaches naturally had to pass that on. And it seemed a bit much that they charged that for passengers who were just changing coach there. However, it looks like it is is the coach and bus companies taking the 'excess' profit.
After a bit more poking around the web I thought a possible reason for there being no direct service from LGW to Victoria (not going via Heathrow) is that there is good train service.
In fact LGW-Victoria rail station and Victoria coach station to wherever seems cheaper - and sometimes quicker - even if using a Coachcard! Provided you're willing to walk between the two Victorias which I certainly would without luggage. Or indeed with luggage, but my wife doesn't feel quite the same way about that.
There used to be a dedicated route from Victoria and Gatwick, I believe it was the A3. It did not go via LHR.
Teds
Member
Airports do charge coach companies that pick and and set down there - it is certainly true for Stansted and Luton with London services. In return, they restrict the number of operators that can provide those services. I am not sure about charges for services serving regional destinations.
The Gatwick to Victoria service was A3. It had various stops in South London on the way to Victoria and at one point, I think, was a through service from Brighton. Compared with the services from Luton and Stansted into London, it was very sparce - hourly, I think. There were more services from Gatwick to Heathrow which then spread out to various destinations.
The Gatwick to Victoria service was A3. It had various stops in South London on the way to Victoria and at one point, I think, was a through service from Brighton. Compared with the services from Luton and Stansted into London, it was very sparce - hourly, I think. There were more services from Gatwick to Heathrow which then spread out to various destinations.
Comments about Flix can be made in the Flixbus thread, this is for National Express Coaches 