Arriva Midlands

[Russel]

Arriva are changing the X65/765 to go head on with Buslink's X66 on the 26th. As a result the X65 will be every 30 mins and follow the same route as the X66. The 765 will continue to be hourly on weekdays and drop to every 80 mins on Saturdays.

Arriva Bus

www.arrivabus.co.uk

Buslink do see to be taking a lot of Arrivas passengers between Tamworth and Lichfield, but when Buslink provide a reliable service that actually turns up, what do Arriva expect to happen?

On the subject of Tamworth, anyone know when the electric deckers are meant to arrive?

 

[Simon75]

On the subject of Tamworth, anyone know when the electric deckers are meant to arrive?

As far as I'm aware Tamworth garage hasn't been electrified, but is the site suitable (it's an town centre garage)

 

[Russel]

As far as I'm aware Tamworth garage hasn't been electrified, but is the site suitable (it's an town centre garage)

It was announced earlier this year that they had been awarded funding and a couple of the local drivers have said they've been told October delivery, though I know drivers aren't the most reliable of sources!

Link to announcement on Staffordshire.gov website

 

[43055]

E300's CX58 EVU and EVV have transferred from Darlington to Tamworth

Pulsar 3795 is apparently now at the Derby depot from Tamworth

 

[EnviroExplorer]

E300's CX58 EVU and EVV have transferred from Darlington to Tamworth

Pulsar 3795 is apparently now at the Derby depot from Tamworth

Suspect most of the remaining Pulsars will be departing Tamworth if the rest of the E300s transfer from Darlington. Although a little older at least they suit the 110 perfectly being Sapphire spec…

 

[busspotter1]

E300's CX58 EVU and EVV have transferred from Darlington to Tamworth

Pulsar 3795 is apparently now at the Derby depot from Tamworth

Nice to have it back in Derby!

 

[DucieStreet]

Is the plan still to replace the omnicity’s by the end of this year?

 

[Russel]

Suspect most of the remaining Pulsars will be departing Tamworth if the rest of the E300s transfer from Darlington. Although a little older at least they suit the 110 perfectly being Sapphire spec…

110 Hasn't been Sapphire for a couple of years, the E400's are in standard livery, they are also looking rather tired internally.

E300's CX58 EVU and EVV have transferred from Darlington to Tamworth

How things change, in the 2010's, Tamworth was given brand new fleets of OmniLinks, B9TL Geminis, Citaros, E400's... now it's getting 15 year old E300's!

On that note, the Max spec Citaros from the shires that have arrived recently are an absolute disgrace, one has at least 3 different moquette styles!

Arriva certainly know how to run a depot into the ground.

 

[SSmith2009]

Arriva certainly know how to run a depot into the ground.

Same with many other depots in the Midlands, the only one to have investment is Thurmaston and they've cut vital services back to the bare bones too.

 

[darloscott]

5 of the Enviro 300's are moving from Darlington to Tamworth having been indirectly replaced by new 400's at Gillingham.

 

[joieman]

Same with many other depots in the Midlands, the only one to have investment is Thurmaston and they've cut vital services back to the bare bones too.

And some of the moves they've made with regards to fleet replacement are a tad bizarre, to say the least. They bought the 72-plate MMCs to replace the nearly-identical 16-plate MMCs, for starters.

 

[busspotter1]

E300's CX58 EVU and EVV have transferred from Darlington to Tamworth

Pulsar 3795 is apparently now at the Derby depot from Tamworth

Can confirm 3795 is in use in Derby, just drive past it and it is operating 4 service.

 

[Trainman40083]

Can confirm 3795 is in use in Derby, just drive past it and it is operating 4 service.

I did see VDL 3795 in Derby earlier when it had come in on a route 24. My picture attached

 

[SSmith2009]

And some of the moves they've made with regards to fleet replacement are a tad bizarre, to say the least. They bought the 72-plate MMCs to replace the nearly-identical 16-plate MMCs, for starters.

The 72 plates were bought in to replace the 16 plates which went down south to replace older buses.

All about shuffling the fleet around to get newer stock into profitable areas where they'll have the biggest impact.

 

[Russel]

The 72 plates were bought in to replace the 16 plates which went down south to replace older buses.

All about shuffling the fleet around to get newer stock into profitable areas where they'll have the biggest impact.

Problem is Arriva have made no major investments in the fleet for too long, with the exception of a few orders here and there where needed, so the stock that can be moved around is limited, all they are doing is robbing Peter to pay Paul...

 

[duncombec]

The 72 plates were bought in to replace the 16 plates which went down south to replace older buses.

All about shuffling the fleet around to get newer stock into profitable areas where they'll have the biggest impact.

Were there not fleet changes as a result of BSIP/ZEBRA funding into Leicester, thus allowing various vehicles to be cascaded?

I'm not sure profitability was the sole reason.

 

[Trainman40083]

Were there not fleet changes as a result of BSIP/ZEBRA funding into Leicester, thus allowing various vehicles to be cascaded?

I'm not sure profitability was the sole reason.

Maybe the sale of Arriva by DB in Germany slowed down investment.

 

[Russel]

Maybe the sale of Arriva by DB in Germany slowed down investment.

I thought the investment stopped not long after DB took over...

 

[Anthony ross]

The investmeant stopped when DB gave arriva stupid targets ho meet that DB knew they couldn’t reach

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Maybe the sale of Arriva by DB in Germany slowed down investment.

I thought the investment stopped not long after DB took over...

The investmeant stopped when DB gave arriva stupid targets ho meet that DB knew they couldn’t reach

Sorry but there's a few things that need a bit of clarity in the interests of fairness.

Arriva was purchased by Deutsche Bahn in 2010. Now Arriva already had an issue in how it accounted for individual route performance so those "stupid targets" were already an issue which predates DB. You just have to see how many depots were closed in the period 2000-2010, and the paring back of the network e.g. the large scale abandonment/sale of much of the former London and Country operation.

Despite this, there was fairly consistent and healthy fleet investment during the early/mid 2010s as the impact of DDA/PSVAR was being felt. Hence why main fleets have a substantial number of Pulsars/Geminis and e400s of that age. However, it became apparent that DB had fundamental issues. It had purchased Arriva and Schenker (logistics) as it sought to diversify which had added to a debt pile. It needed capital investment in its core business (which has well documented issues) and so investment elsewhere was limited. One off-quoted example was that a UK bus subsidiary was competing for capital for fleet investment against a bike hire scheme in Bratislava - that got the cash as it was a contract backed scheme (guaranteed income) vs the commercial risk in the UK!

On top of that, you had the protracted will they/won't they sell or spin off discussions. That meant managerial paralysis and continued retrenchment/inability to invest. Covid then simply exacerbated a bad situation.

It seems that under new ownership, there has been a bit more capital investment but there are some fairly fundamental issues with the business. Some operations have withered away and are a shadow of what they were e.g. Northumbria, the former Midlands North, Shires, Southern Counties. How or if they can be rebuilt is questionable.

 

[Trainman40083]

Sorry but there's a few things that need a bit of clarity in the interests of fairness.

Arriva was purchased by Deutsche Bahn in 2010. Now Arriva already had an issue in how it accounted for individual route performance so those "stupid targets" were already an issue which predates DB. You just have to see how many depots were closed in the period 2000-2010, and the paring back of the network e.g. the large scale abandonment/sale of much of the former London and Country operation.

Despite this, there was fairly consistent and healthy fleet investment during the early/mid 2010s as the impact of DDA/PSVAR was being felt. Hence why main fleets have a substantial number of Pulsars/Geminis and e400s of that age. However, it became apparent that DB had fundamental issues. It had purchased Arriva and Schenker (logistics) as it sought to diversify which had added to a debt pile. It needed capital investment in its core business (which has well documented issues) and so investment elsewhere was limited. One off-quoted example was that a UK bus subsidiary was competing for capital for fleet investment against a bike hire scheme in Bratislava - that got the cash as it was a contract backed scheme (guaranteed income) vs the commercial risk in the UK!

On top of that, you had the protracted will they/won't they sell or spin off discussions. That meant managerial paralysis and continued retrenchment/inability to invest. Covid then simply exacerbated a bad situation.

It seems that under new ownership, there has been a bit more capital investment but there are some fairly fundamental issues with the business. Some operations have withered away and are a shadow of what they were e.g. Northumbria, the former Midlands North, Shires, Southern Counties. How or if they can be rebuilt is questionable.

I used to go to Germany annually. Over there, and travelling by rail, it is fair to say DB had issues. It almost seemed like British Rail in the early 1990s.

 

[ferry58]

110 Hasn't been Sapphire for a couple of years, the E400's are in standard livery, they are also looking rather tired internally.



How things change, in the 2010's, Tamworth was given brand new fleets of OmniLinks, B9TL Geminis, Citaros, E400's... now it's getting 15 year old E300's!

On that note, the Max spec Citaros from the shires that have arrived recently are an absolute disgrace, one has at least 3 different moquette styles!

Arriva certainly know how to run a depot into the ground.

It is suggested on Bustimes that CX58 EVU was taken for scrap:
"Vehicle Withdrawn and Taken for Scrap this morning. Confirmed by a member from the depot who sent me a photo."

Proof: https://www.flickr.com/photos/189037956@N08/54076548458

CX58 EVV was transferred to Tamworth.

 

[busspotter1]

It is suggested on Bustimes that CX58 EVU was taken for scrap:
"Vehicle Withdrawn and Taken for Scrap this morning. Confirmed by a member from the depot who sent me a photo."

Proof: https://www.flickr.com/photos/189037956@N08/54076548458

CX58 EVV was transferred to Tamworth.

Interesting, what factors cause a bus to be scrapped? There are other 58 plates still running. I'm guessing issues which are expensive to repair, such as structural corrosion, and therefore not viable when factoring in the age and remaining useful life of the bus.

Also, I have always wondered what would happen if Arriva took inspiration from TB/Transdev and invested in their branding.
Over the years it seems they have cost cut where possible, whether it is vehicle maintenance, vehicle investment, cleaning... etc., to increase their profit margins. However, I have always wondered what it would be like if they did the opposite and instead invested in their fleets - could they achieve better profitability by doing that?
I remember when they first rolled out USB Charging on their Geminis - they got vandalised and pretty much none worked within 6 months. It's a shame we can't have nice things.

 

[43055]

It is suggested on Bustimes that CX58 EVU was taken for scrap:
"Vehicle Withdrawn and Taken for Scrap this morning. Confirmed by a member from the depot who sent me a photo."

Proof: https://www.flickr.com/photos/189037956@N08/54076548458

CX58 EVV was transferred to Tamworth.

Yet on the WM Bus Photos forum someone has seen it running round Tamworth.

Arriva Tamworth - Page 73

Arriva Tamworth - Page 73

wmbusphotos.com

EVU probably gonna be scrapped

It's in service at Tamworth now.

 

[ferry58]

It does appear to have fleet number 3583 at Tamworth as well.

 

[EnviroExplorer]

Interesting, what factors cause a bus to be scrapped? There are other 58 plates still running. I'm guessing issues which are expensive to repair, such as structural corrosion, and therefore not viable when factoring in the age and remaining useful life of the bus.

I recall several mentions that this specific batch of E300s had extensive corrosion - initial reports were they would all be scrapped upon being rendered surplus in Manchester. However as it turned out most were still transferred elsewhere, remains to be seen how much longer they last.

 

[busspotter1]

I recall several mentions that this specific batch of E300s had extensive corrosion - initial reports were they would all be scrapped upon being rendered surplus in Manchester. However as it turned out most were still transferred elsewhere, remains to be seen how much longer they last.

Ok, makes sense thanks for that. Do you know how much an engine replacement is for a bus? Let's take a Wright Gemini as an example.

 

[Trainman40083]

Ok, makes sense thanks for that. Do you know how much an engine replacement is for a bus? Let's take a Wright Gemini as an example.

I was told a Volvo engine cost about £50k.

 

[47550]

It is suggested on Bustimes that CX58 EVU was taken for scrap:
"Vehicle Withdrawn and Taken for Scrap this morning. Confirmed by a member from the depot who sent me a photo."

Proof: https://www.flickr.com/photos/189037956@N08/54076548458

CX58 EVV was transferred to Tamworth.

Don’t know if it was this one but passed one heading west on the m62 around lunchtime yesterday on the back of a tow truck

 

[busspotter1]

I was told a Volvo engine cost about £50k.

Ouch.
I saw that Wrightbus has started doing Diesel to Electric bus conversions, do you think the price of them will fall over the next few years due to increased supply?