1987-1989 Disasters

[Lewisham2221]

surely a different situation - 9/11 was people armed with box cutters breaking into cockpits not a secreted bomb in luggage. The lesson learnt from 9/11 was to have a locked and armoured cockpit door

The latter of which was found to have adverse consequences, as per the 2015 GermanWings incident in the Alps

 

[westv]

There was also Kegworth in January 1989,

Plus Manchester airport August 85. British Airtours.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Plus Manchester airport August 85.

That wasn't in the 3 year period 1987-1989 was it?

 

[DunsBus]

Plus Manchester airport August 85. British Airtours.

Gosh, I remember that one. The plane never even left the runway.
Soon after that (in October) there was the M6 coach crash, Britain's worst motorway accident and which remains so nearly 40 years on.

 

[westv]

That wasn't in the 3 year period 1987-1989 was it?

Oh yes.

 

[DarloRich]

Soon after that (in October) there was the M6 coach crash, Britain's worst motorway accident and which remains so nearly 40 years on.

is there any information on line about this crash? it isn't one I have come across.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

is there any information on line about this crash? it isn't one I have come across.

Just Google M6 coach crash and it's the top few results.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Was it just a coincidence to have 7 major disasters in 3 years, or did they all have the same root causes?

Thatcherism was in its pomp by the late 80s. Any sort of rules and regulations were “red tape” to be “ruthlessly cut” and so organisations did ruthlessly cut corners. That’s why Piper Alpha and the Herald of Free Enterprise disasters happened. The Marchioness sinking too.

You simultaneously had public expenditure as a dirty word. By the late 80s BR and London Underground were run down bordering on decrepit due to a chronic and deliberate underfunding. That’s why King’s Cross and Clapham happened.

I should not have included Lockerbie as that was a terrorist incedent and not an accident like the other disasters.

Lockerbie happened because airlines and airports refused to learn the lessons from the bombing of Air India flight 182 in 1985. That flight (and Air India flight 301, which blew up on the ground at Narita airport rather than in the sky because of a timing miscalculation by the terrorists) was brought down by the same modus operandi as Lockerbie: unaccompanied baggage containing a bomb.

Air India 182, killing more people than Lockerbie, also remains something of a forgotten incident.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Thatcherism was in its pomp by the late 80s. Any sort of rules and regulations were “red tape” to be “ruthlessly cut” and so organisations did ruthlessly cut corners. That’s why Piper Alpha and the Herald of Free Enterprise disasters happened. The Marchioness sinking too.

You simultaneously had public expenditure as a dirty word. By the late 80s BR and London Underground were run down bordering on decrepit due to a chronic and deliberate underfunding. That’s why King’s Cross and Clapham happened.

Those are certainly contributing factors but I think it’s too much of a stretch to say that is why those accidents happened. All disasters are as a result of the Swiss-cheese effect, ie all the holes line up. Some holes are larger than others but none in isolation are responsible.

With regards to Clapham, I wholeheartedly recommend Greg Morse’s recent book about the disaster, the build up and aftermath and much analysis and wider context. It is a tour-de-force and one of the best informed books that I’ve read for a long time.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Clapham-Train-Accident-Corporate-Challenge/dp/1399073028

 

[westv]

Just Google M6 coach crash and it's the top few results.

My Google results only show recent crashes in the results.
If I search for "Britain's worst road accident" in comes up with Dibbles Bridge in 1975.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

My Google results only show recent crashes in the results.
If I search for "Britain's worst road accident" in comes up with Dibbles Bridge in 1975.

I just noticed my Google automatically added 1985 to the search term even though I didn't type it in...

 

[westv]

I just noticed my Google automatically added 1985 to the search term even though I didn't type it in...

Oh yes. Found it.

 

[The exile]

Those are certainly contributing factors but I think it’s too much of a stretch to say that is why those accidents happened. All disasters are as a result of the Swiss-cheese effect, ie all the holes line up. Some holes are larger than others but none in isolation are responsible.

One of the reasons accidents happen is precisely because they haven't happened for a very long time. People get complacent and an awful lot of safety precautions start to get carried out (if at all) on autopilot. If you then start cutting inspections and supervision to save costs (or even get to the stage where even the inspector / supervisor is working on theory - having never experienced anything actually going wrong) it is literally an accident waiting to happen - that wait might be long or short.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Those are certainly contributing factors but I think it’s too much of a stretch to say that is why those accidents happened. All disasters are as a result of the Swiss-cheese effect, ie all the holes line up. Some holes are larger than others but none in isolation are responsible.

The effect of the Thatcherite/Reaganite "bonfire of red tape" was to remove several layers of Swiss cheese from the situation.

I completely agree that it isn't the only reason why those incidents happened, and maybe they would have happened anyway. But if your ideology is to remove all the Swiss cheese then the Swiss cheese protection principle no longer works.

The Marchioness sinking was probably the most disgraceful of the three. The company which owned the dredger had repeatedly had vessels crash into other things on the Thames and the captain and second office of the dredger had both each necked six or seven pints of beer before taking control of the ship. For reasons unknown the DPP intervened to prevent a private prosecution. And the cost of compliance with basic maritime safety- on both ships, to be fair- wasn't worth it given the fact that the financial consequences of the killings were minimal. Wikipedia says one family- after legal and funeral bills- received £300 compensation.

 

[Bikeman78]

Given Lockerbie was terrorism it probably shouldn’t be counted.

It was still a disaster. I will never forget seeing on the news the crumpled but still recognisable cockpit of the Boeing 747 in a field. I have just finished watching the five part drama. The first episode depicts the disaster itself. Until then, I hadn't really thought about how awful it must have been for those on the ground. The focus of the news footage was the cockpit and the crater on Sherwood Crescent but in fact there was debris raining down over several square miles. People probably had no idea what on earth was happening.

 

[dangie]

It was still a disaster. I will never forget seeing on the news the crumpled but still recognisable cockpit of the Boeing 747 in a field. I have just finished watching the five part drama. The first episode depicts the disaster itself. Until then, I hadn't really thought about how awful it must have been for those on the ground. The focus of the news footage was the cockpit and the crater on Sherwood Crescent but in fact there was debris raining down over several square miles. People probably had no idea what on earth was happening.

A friend of mine was in the RAF at that time and he was involved in the search for wreckage and of course bodies. He mentions it very rarely, but when he does it obviously still affects him. It must have been truly awful.

 

[Thornaby 37]

December 1984 was also a bad month for railway disasters, including two in Manchester on consecutive days
03/12/1984 - Longsight
04/12/1984 - Eccles
11/12/1984 - Kilburn (London Underground)
20/12/1984 - Summit Tunnel