East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

[tspaul26]

Is a GSJ actually required at that location though? With the 4-tracking through Shepreth Branch Junction to Cambridge (City/Main) could a flat junction and sensibly timed paired moves not suffice? It's not as if it would be the busiest flat junction in the world, and you can protect the corridor while getting the damn thing built.

Yes, the timetable and service intervals don’t work without grade separation because paths further south are ‘locked in’.

 

[Magdalia]

This particular woman would still end up with embankment near her.

Or a lengthy viaduct, I suppose.

There’s also the issue of the river crossing and, then, the A10.

There are ecological factors which drive the overall height in this area as well.

Yes, the river crossing has to be sufficiently high to manage the flood risk. I don't know what else "ecological factors" might cover (wildlife habitats?) but those too.

However the A10 can go over the railway instead of the railway going over the A10, or the A10 can go under a lower railway embankment in a cutting. Those can be less visually intrusive because the road ramps can have steeper gradients.

I'm waiting with interest to see what the statutory consultation comes up with, and note your comment on timing!

 

[tspaul26]

I don't know what else "ecological factors" might cover (wildlife habitats?) but those too.

Yes, including sundry supporting habitat.

However the A10 can go over the railway instead of the railway going over the A10, or the A10 can go under a lower railway embankment in a cutting. Those can be less visually intrusive because the road ramps can have steeper gradients.

It’s not necessarily that simple because of the ecological constraints in this area.

 

[edwin_m]

Is a GSJ actually required at that location though? With the 4-tracking through Shepreth Branch Junction to Cambridge (City/Main) could a flat junction and sensibly timed paired moves not suffice? It's not as if it would be the busiest flat junction in the world, and you can protect the corridor while getting the damn thing built.

Is four-tracking proposed through Shepreth Branch Junction? There are houses around the route immediately to the west that would make widening different, and unless six tracks were provided northwards there would still need to be a flat junction about where the existing one is. I believe it's only four tracks from the junction into Cambridge, in which case a double-track bottleneck remains between there and the new junction. This presumably eliminates Shepreth Branch Junction itself, but there will still be conflicts at the south end of Cambridge station to timetable in, and it may be hard to do this while also ensuring minimum conflict at the new junction.

 

[zwk500]

Is four-tracking proposed through Shepreth Branch Junction? There are houses around the route immediately to the west that would make widening different, and unless six tracks were provided northwards there would still need to be a flat junction about where the existing one is. I believe it's only four tracks from the junction into Cambridge, in which case a double-track bottleneck remains between there and the new junction. This presumably eliminates Shepreth Branch Junction itself, but there will still be conflicts at the south end of Cambridge station to timetable in, and it may be hard to do this while also ensuring minimum conflict at the new junction.

Yes, sorry from not through.

 

[Nodding Cat Ch]

East West Rail CEO says line can help drive major growth

Beth West said the £5bn route is not just a railway but an ‘economic project’.

www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk

Stuff in the local Cambridge paper

 

[Mordac]

East West Rail CEO says line can help drive major growth

Beth West said the £5bn route is not just a railway but an ‘economic project’.

www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk

Stuff in the local Cambridge paper

Wrong message, if they want to convince the locals they should say "Despite the line everyone will stay exactly the same."

 

[ainsworth74]

It's not open yet but a consultation is due to start on 14 November 2024 and run through to the end of January 2025.

About East West Rail and our consultation​

East West Rail would connect communities between Oxford, Milton Keynes, Bedford and Cambridge, supporting sustainable economic growth in the area. The new railway would make it easier to reach jobs, education, public services and days out with family and friends.

You’re invited to take part in our consultation to share your feedback on our proposals for the new railway.

East West Rail | Consultation 2024

East West Rail's consultation will be open from 14 November 2024 until 24 January 2025. You're invited to take part in our consultation to share your feedback on our proposals.

eastwestrail.co.uk

I will endeavour to come back and add the documents to this post when they are published for the sake of posterity!

 

[jfowkes]

How will this consultation differ from the previous ones? There's not too much detail at the moment, maybe the answer to that question will become clearer on the 14th once they release additional information.

I guess it will be basically "we've selected a route, now we're consulting on the details of that".

 

[John R]

How will this consultation differ from the previous ones? There's not too much detail at the moment, maybe the answer to that question will become clearer on the 14th once they release additional information.

I guess it will be basically "we've selected a route, now we're consulting on the details of that".

I suspect the proposal for discontinuous electrification will be a hot topic in many responses.

 

[neill]

I live in Cambridge and we got a flyer about the consultation through the post a few days ago.

 

[stuving]

How will this consultation differ from the previous ones? There's not too much detail at the moment, maybe the answer to that question will become clearer on the 14th once they release additional information.

I guess it will be basically "we've selected a route, now we're consulting on the details of that".

Some more explanation has been added to the consultation main page:

More on the consultation process​

The proposed new section of railway between Bedford and Cambridge has been designated as a project of national significance. This means we will apply to the Secretary of State for Transport for a Development Consent Order (DCO), which would grant consent to build and operate the new railway between Bedford and Cambridge and the additional upgrades to the existing railway between Oxford and Bedford.

As part of the pre-application stage, we are consulting on our proposals. We intend to carry out two consultations before applying for development consent: this non-statutory consultation and a statutory consultation that will be held at a later date. We believe carrying out two rounds of consultation will maximise the opportunity to share our proposals, gather people’s feedback and take this into account as we finalise our proposals for the railway.

Once we have completed all of our consultation and finalised our proposals, we will prepare and submit our DCO application to the Planning Inspectorate, which processes applications on behalf of the Secretary of State. Following the examination into the DCO application, the Planning Inspectorate will make a recommendation to the Secretary of State who will decide whether development consent should be granted.

More information about this consultation and the planning process for a DCO application can be found in the consultation materials which will be available from 14 November.

 

[cle]

Is the station consolidation / closure on MV the reason for this? New interest since Universal/Wixams?

I thought much had been consulted on already.

 

[Magdalia]

Is the station consolidation / closure on MV the reason for this? New interest since Universal/Wixams?

I thought much had been consulted on already.

A statutory consultation had been due to take place last summer but was cancelled when the General Election was called.

The main change is that we have a new government. East West Rail was mentioned in the budget mainly in the context of growing the economy in Cambridge. The Cambridge Growth Company, established by the old government, has survived, and now there is also the New Towns Taskforce, which reports before the 2025 summer recess.

We will find out more on Thursday when the consultation opens.

 

[BrianW]

Nothing about providing opportunity (and meeting need) for more sustainable living environments with exciting new and expanded neighbourhoods with easy access to great schools and universities, etc ....?

 

[Magdalia]

Nothing about providing opportunity (and meeting need) for more sustainable living environments with exciting new and expanded neighbourhoods with easy access to great schools and universities, etc ....?

Those are for the New Towns Taskforce and the Cambridge Growth Company. East West Rail is about getting people in and out of Cambridge.

 

[neill]

Consultation has been published: https://eastwestrail.co.uk/consultation2024.

Looks quite comprehensive and lots to digest. I see the needs of bats are being well considered in the proposal.

Initial thoughts on the Cambridge area proposals after a skim:

• Replacement of the existing long road bridge is going to be disruptive. I am yet to be fully convinced it is necessary.
• The Tins path bridge is being replaced by a ‘footbridge’ with switchback ramps. Given the heavy cycle traffic this may not work out well.
• No mention of replacement park space for that taken away (eg Hobson’s park).
• Seems to be proposing the new Hobson’s park built for Cambridge South is replaced with a pond.
• Missed opportunity for an eastern entrance to Cambridge station?

Anyone know why Cambridge platform 7 and 8 need extending? They already take 12 car trains don’t they?

 

[higthomas]

Consultation has been published: https://eastwestrail.co.uk/consultation2024.

Looks quite comprehensive and lots to digest. I see the needs of bats are being well considered in the proposal.

Initial thoughts on the Cambridge area proposals after a skim:

• Replacement of the existing long road bridge is going to be disruptive. I am yet to be fully convinced it is necessary.
• The Tins path bridge is being replaced by a ‘footbridge’ with switchback ramps. Given the heavy cycle traffic this may not work out well.
• No mention of replacement park space for that taken away (eg Hobson’s park).
• Seems to be proposing the new Hobson’s park built for Cambridge South is replaced with a pond.
• Missed opportunity for an eastern entrance to Cambridge station?

Anyone know why Cambridge platform 7 and 8 need extending? They already take 12 car trains don’t they?

Yeah, I had much the same thoughts about the Cambridge area.

On the platform extensions, my guess was that they want a similar arrangement to that on platform 1/4. Definitely seems less preferable to adding more platforms, but I suspect new platforms would have to be quite a bit North of the existing ones to give room for track flaring.

 

[Magdalia]

There is a lot to look at here, and very early in the morning for so much thinking!

A few points that I have discovered so far:

• Bedford is chapter 10, this still includes 6 tracks at the Poets Estate see para 10.4.2 on pages 144-145.
• Chapter 11 has a useful timetable of the previous consultations.
• Tempsford/St Neots is chapter 13, this includes 2 different proposals for crossing the River Ouse, and 2 different proposals for a rail logistics hub for bringing in construction materials for the new line.
• Cambourne is in chapter 14 and now includes a tunnel under the proposed new Bourn Airfield development
• The area where EWR would join the existing railway is in Chapter 15. It now includes a tunnel under Chapel Hill but I think there is still a high embankment/viaduct above the River Rhee flood plain. The Hauxton Junction now includes 2 passing loops but I haven't yet got my head round exactly what is being proposed here.
• Cambridge is chapter 16. These proposals do require demolition of Long Road bridge, and lots of work at the main station, including new platform 9 and new footbridges. There is also a proposal for a turnback siding at Cherry Hinton, though no new station.

 

[DarloRich]

The problem with this consultation is that because E-W is a sperate company it wilfully in my view overlooks the key destinations for adult MV service users: MK or Euston and has no interest in the actuality or possibility of journeys beyond two critical locations of Bedford and Cambridge. Nobody is making ( or if E-W get there way WILL ever make) journeys to Oxford or Cambridge from the MV. It is despicable nonsense designed entirely to deliver the closure of most of the MV stations.

They treat this section of the line as if it is a "new" railway like the rest and I am sure consider those of us who use the line as an inconvenience . For the 15 years I have used the line ( daily when the service runs expect Sundays - which despite promises has never happened!) we have been promised "jam tomorrow". When the jam finally arrives we aren't allowed any of it! We as users of the line are being taken for muppets.

It's not open yet but a consultation is due to start on 14 November 2024 and run through to the end of January 2025.

Wonderful - i am metaphorically loading up the shotgun and readying both barrels ( again) about the MV service. I will try to use even more industrial language this time!

I live in Cambridge and we got a flyer about the consultation through the post a few days ago.

Same on I got near Bletchley

Is the station consolidation / closure on MV the reason for this? New interest since Universal/Wixams?

I thought much had been consulted on already.

The station closure plan ( consolidation is just a pr guff word to hide the truth) is on the plans. Locals are gearing up to fight it. The users group has been very quiet about the plans to close most of the stations on the line they are supposed to advocate for !

 

[TheDavibob]

• Cambridge is chapter 16. These proposals do require demolition of Long Road bridge, and lots of work at the main station, including new platform 9 and new footbridges. There is also a proposal for a turnback siding at Cherry Hinton, though no new station.

Worth noting there is a "give us some money and we'll build a station at Cherry Hinton" and "perhaps even at Coldham's Lane if you ask nicely", and similar with a Cambridge Eastern entrance - these do feel like deliberate bait but I'm not convinced anybody will pick them up.

Cambridge North changes mentioned but not explicit - I read it as making platform 3 a through platform and focusing platform 2 as the primary turnback platform. Proposals to add train facilities on or near the old sidings. Naively, I would imagine it would be relatively cheap to add a platform 4 at Cambridge North (just put another platform by the entrance) but that wouldn't play nice with stabling.

Wasn't expecting an early-morning release, so kudos to them.

 

[Magdalia]

Worth noting there is a "give us some money and we'll build a station at Cherry Hinton" and "perhaps even at Coldham's Lane if you ask nicely", and similar with a Cambridge Eastern entrance - these do feel like deliberate bait but I'm not convinced anybody will pick them up.

The Cambridge Growth Company could do those.

 

[Magdalia]

I have been digging into the Technical Report. I have found this at 12.3 about crossing the River Rhee and the A10 near Harston.

Passing over the River Rhee, the railway would continue at ground level when reaching the A10 Royston Road location. The new railway would directly impact properties at New Farm. The A10 Royston Road would be raised and diverted to the south-east by approximately 55m (60 yards) to cross over EWR via a new overbridge. The A10 Royston Road would connect back to its current alignment south of Mill Road at Harston.

I think this means that the so called Great Wall of Cambridgeshire is no more.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've created a speculative thread to run parallel to this one:

East West Rail (EWR) Consultation - speculation

I've created this thread to continue speculative discussion regarding the East West Rail consultation to keep this out of the updates thread, for example: Alternative routes Alternative plans to the 5 stations one Denbigh East Curve Services running via MKC Go! :)...

www.railforums.co.uk

Mods may want to move some of the above postings to it, or we could just start speculating there from now if they prefer.

 

[Magdalia]

Initial thoughts on the Cambridge area proposals after a skim:

• Missed opportunity for an eastern entrance to Cambridge station?

Anyone know why Cambridge platform 7 and 8 need extending? They already take 12 car trains don’t they?

Yeah, I had much the same thoughts about the Cambridge area.

On the platform extensions, my guess was that they want a similar arrangement to that on platform 1/4. Definitely seems less preferable to adding more platforms, but I suspect new platforms would have to be quite a bit North of the existing ones to give room for track flaring.

More from the Technical Report. Section 13.2 includes:

Rearrangement of tracks at Cambridge station to add a new platform 9 to the eastern side, between the existing platforms 7 and 8 and the existing train operation company depot. • Removal and re-provision elsewhere of two train sidings to create space for a new platform 9. • Extension of the existing footbridge to serve the new platform 9. • Extension of platforms 7 and 8 at both ends to enable longer and multiple trains. • Provision of a new bridge connecting the station building to all platforms and the east side of the station for colleagues to access train operating companies’ facilities and the existing depot. • Provision of a new emergency evacuation bridge serving all platforms at the northern end of the station. • Modifications to the existing station buildings and passenger concourse to improve access. • Relocation of the train operating companies’ facilities from the main station building to a new building to the east of the station. New staff facilities would also be grouped on that side of the station. A combined car park to the east of the station would be created for staff use.

And at the very end of 13.2

The proposals would not preclude the provision of a future eastern entrance to the station if this were required in the future, although this is not within the current scope of EWR.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 14 Nov 2024 ==

Section 13.6.4.2 includes figure 134 showing a schematic track layout for Cambridge.

Option G+ would involve the extension of existing platforms 7 and 8, plus the creation of a new single-sided platform 9. This is shown on the schematic in Figure 134:

 

[camflyer]

Worth noting there is a "give us some money and we'll build a station at Cherry Hinton" and "perhaps even at Coldham's Lane if you ask nicely", and similar with a Cambridge Eastern entrance - these do feel like deliberate bait but I'm not convinced anybody will pick them up.

Cambridge North changes mentioned but not explicit - I read it as making platform 3 a through platform and focusing platform 2 as the primary turnback platform. Proposals to add train facilities on or near the old sidings. Naively, I would imagine it would be relatively cheap to add a platform 4 at Cambridge North (just put another platform by the entrance) but that wouldn't play nice with stabling.

Wasn't expecting an early-morning release, so kudos to them.

I believe the recent work at Cambridge station for Thameslink made passive provision for a new eastern entrance but it just needs someone to agree to pay for it.

 

[Oxfordblues]

A story today in my "Oxford Mail" re Bicester London Road level crossing: https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/24722228.closure-proposed-london-road-crossing-plans-revealed/

I think closure to road traffic is the least-worst option, with plenty of alternative routes available for drivers. After all, with potentially eight trains per hour it would hardly be open to vehicles for long enough in any case.

 

[swt_passenger]

A story today in my "Oxford Mail" re Bicester London Road level crossing: https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/24722228.closure-proposed-london-road-crossing-plans-revealed/

I think closure to road traffic is the least-worst option, with plenty of alternative routes available for drivers. After all, with potentially eight trains per hour it would hardly be open to vehicles for long enough in any case.

8 extra, (4 EWR each way), so 12 per hour with Chiltern Marylebone services?

(But maybe this isn't really a current construction progress matter, as it’s part of the new consultation for the future Bedford and Cambridge services that has its own thread.)

 

[yorkie]

Just a gentle reminder this thread is to discuss actual updates relating to the consultation

Any posts of a speculative nature belongs in the following thread, please:

East West Rail (EWR) Consultation - speculation

I've created this thread to continue speculative discussion regarding the East West Rail consultation to keep this out of the updates thread, for example: Alternative routes Alternative plans to the 5 stations one Denbigh East Curve Services running via MKC Go! :)...

www.railforums.co.uk

Many thanks

 

[Oxfordblues]

Yes indeed, I stand corrected. So only a few brief minutes per hour for road traffic.