Caught using wife’s oyster photo id card

[Leo12]

Hi All,

I am on student dependent visa and today I caught using my wife’s photo id oyster card. I was using it almost a year without knowing that I cant use it. Now the TFL officer takes my card and told me that you will receive a letter within 2 weeks and where you have to explain why it has happened. They note down my details on the paper. I have asked him that is it a criminal offence he said no it’s a civil matter. Since I was using the card for almost a year so will they check all my records via cctv for tap in and tap out? Would it be criminal offence?

We all have to apply for graduate visa in couple of months and I want to know what will be the consequences I have to face? Anyone has faced the similar sitution before? Is there any chance to pay a fine etc? Thanks

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi All,

I am on student dependent visa and today I caught using my wife’s photo id oyster card. I was using it almost a year without knowing that I cant use it.

What sort of Oyster card is your wife's? There are many types.

Does it have her name as well as her photo on it?

What gave you the impression you could use it?

 

[Leo12]

What sort of Oyster card is your wife's? There are many types.

Does it have her name as well as her photo on it?

What gave you the impression you could use it?

Hi, Thank you for your response. It is 18+ oyster Photo card. It has name and Picture on it.

 

[methecooldude]

Hi, Thank you for your response. It is 18+ oyster Photo card. It has name and Picture on it.

So again, given that it has her name and her picture on it, what gave you the impression you could use it?

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We all have to apply for graduate visa in couple of months and I want to know what will be the consequences I have to face?

We cannot legally answer any questions relating to Visas

 

[Leo12]

So again, given that it has her name and her picture on it, what gave you the impression you could use it?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2024 ==


We cannot legally answer any questions relating to Visas

what do you mean by impression?

 

[SuspectUsual]

what do you mean by impression?

Why did you think you were allowed to use a card with her name and photo on it?

 

[Leo12]

Why did you think you were allowed to use a card with her name and photo on it?

I didnt know that I suppose not to.

 

[John R]

I didnt know that I suppose not to.

Unfortunately TfL won't believe that you didn't think you weren't supposed to use the card. Apart from the fact that your wife will have been told when she got it the conditions of use, why else would it have a photograph on it?

I'm afraid the officer was wrong when he said it would be a civil offence. Fraudulent travel on TfL is most definitely a criminal offence, and whilst we sometimes see final warnings given by TfL in this sort of situation, the length of time you have been doing it makes it more likely that you will be prosecuted and convicted.

If you are convicted you will have to pay a fine, and in addition TfL's costs and their estimate of the fares you have not paid. You won't go to prison though.

Finally, if your account name is your actual name then you might like to contact the administrators, and ask to have it changed to an anonymous one, so that everyone on the internet (including TfL) doesn't know that you are posting here.

 

[Leo12]

Unfortunately TfL won't believe that you didn't think you weren't supposed to use the card. Apart from the fact that your wife will have been told when she got it the conditions of use, why else would it have a photograph on it?

I'm afraid the officer was wrong when he said it would be a civil offence. Fraudulent travel on TfL is most definitely a criminal offence, and whilst we sometimes see final warnings given by TfL in this sort of situation, the length of time you have been doing it makes it more likely that you will be prosecuted and convicted.

If you are convicted you will have to pay a fine, and in addition TfL's costs and their estimate of the fares you have not paid. You won't go to prison though.

Finally, if your account name is your actual name then you might like to contact the administrators, and ask to have it changed to an anonymous one, so that everyone on the internet (including TfL) doesn't know that you are posting here.

Thank you for your reply. Kindly suggest me what should be my response when I will receive the letter from TFL? Any way to avoid conviction? I am ready to pay penalties and I am very ashamed and worried. Our visa will also needs to be change within 2-3 months so would it be a problem?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2024 ==

Thank you for your reply. Kindly suggest me what should be my response when I will receive the letter from TFL? Any way to avoid conviction? I am ready to pay penalties and I am very ashamed and worried. Our visa will also needs to be change within 2-3 months so would it be a problem?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2024 ==

Unfortunately TfL won't believe that you didn't think you weren't supposed to use the card. Apart from the fact that your wife will have been told when she got it the conditions of use, why else would it have a photograph on it?

I'm afraid the officer was wrong when he said it would be a civil offence. Fraudulent travel on TfL is most definitely a criminal offence, and whilst we sometimes see final warnings given by TfL in this sort of situation, the length of time you have been doing it makes it more likely that you will be prosecuted and convicted.

If you are convicted you will have to pay a fine, and in addition TfL's costs and their estimate of the fares you have not paid. You won't go to prison though.

Finally, if your account name is your actual name then you might like to contact the administrators, and ask to have it changed to an anonymous one, so that everyone on the internet (including TfL) doesn't know that you are posting here.

How can i contact admins?

 

[John R]

Thank you for your reply. Kindly suggest me what should be my response when I will receive the letter from TFL? Any way to avoid conviction? I am ready to pay penalties and I am very ashamed and worried. Our visa will also needs to be change within 2-3 months so would it be a problem?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2024 ==



== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Nov 2024 ==


How can i contact admins?

Use the report button at the foot of your first post and explain what you want to do.

 

[Leo12]

Use the report button at the foot of your first post and explain what you want to do.

Yes did it. Thanks. So the letter that would come in 2 weeks wont be a generic letter? Or it will be a specified case to case?

 

[John R]

Yes did it. Thanks. So the letter that would come in 2 weeks wont be a generic letter? Or it will be a specified case to case?

It will be fairly generic, but obviously with some specifics for your case (eg when you were stopped and where).

 

[Leo12]

It will be fairly generic, but obviously with some specifics for your case (eg when you were stopped and where).

Ok thank you for your prompt response. I just have last 2 questions and I will appreciate if you can guide me on this:
1- How long admins usually take to change the username?
2- After receiving verification letter what should be my response? Should I just admit my mistake and assure them that It wont happen again and I am ready to pay any fine etc.

 

[WesternLancer]

I am on student dependent visa and today I caught using my wife’s photo id oyster card. I was using it almost a year without knowing that I cant use it.

We all have to apply for graduate visa in couple of months and I want to know what will be the consequences I have to face? Anyone has faced the similar sitution before? Is there any chance to pay a fine etc? Thanks

If you want to know about the impact of this on a graduate visa application the best place to ask to find out will be to contact your university or college overseas student visa team as their staff can either advise you or infirm you where you can get that information or advice from.

You should speak to them about that aspect of things.

 

[AlterEgo]

2- After receiving verification letter what should be my response? Should I just admit my mistake and assure them that It wont happen again and I am ready to pay any fine etc.

It's not really a mistake is it? It's your wife's card with her name and photo on it, you know you shouldn't use it. That is why it has her name and photo on it.

TfL do not offer "a fine". You will either receive a written warning (rare), or be taken to court and have the criminal offence dealt with there (very common).

TfL are extremely bored with this sort of case which is just blatant fare evasion. You really ought to own up to the offending and not try to pass it off as a mistake if you want them to take you seriously. If you are here on a visa you are only conditionally a guest in the country with no right to remain indefinitely and you should not break the law or try to rip the state off.

Most cases (but not all) end in a prosecution for the offence in the magistrates' court.

 

[Leo12]

It's not really a mistake is it? It's your wife's card with her name and photo on it, you know you shouldn't use it. That is why it has her name and photo on it.

TfL do not offer "a fine". You will either receive a written warning (rare), or be taken to court and have the criminal offence dealt with there (very common).

TfL are extremely bored with this sort of case which is just blatant fare evasion. You really ought to own up to the offending and not try to pass it off as a mistake if you want them to take you seriously. If you are here on a visa you are only conditionally a guest in the country with no right to remain indefinitely and you should not break the law or try to rip the state off.

Most cases (but not all) end in a prosecution for the offence in the magistrates' court.

Thank you for your response. I am still waiting to hear from TFL and my wife’s osyter card as well. As it is my first time what do you think there is a possibility of any warning/penalty instead of court persecution?
Secondly I work as Security Officer with SIA licence and upon renewal they always check criminal records and everything. I have searched SIA site but I didnt find fare envision as unacceptable offence. Kindly guide! Thanks.

 

[LAX54]

Thank you for your response. I am still waiting to hear from TFL and my wife’s osyter card as well. As it is my first time what do you think there is a possibility of any warning/penalty instead of court persecution?
Secondly I work as Security Officer with SIA licence and upon renewal they always check criminal records and everything. I have searched SIA site but I didnt find fare envision as unacceptable offence. Kindly guide! Thanks.

Problem is, its not a first time, you said you hasd been using it for a year, that is easy for TfL to check when/where etc

 

[Leo12]

Problem is, its not a first time, you said you hasd been using it for a year, that is easy for TfL to check when/where etc

Sorry to correct myself I have used nearly 5-6 months as I was not aware because I was the one who do the top ups and everything as my wife is not working. Secondly tfl caught me on different route that I don't usually take. So what you think there is some possibility of getting warning/fine letter?

The tfl officer also asked me from where did you start your journey I said him from last station and then he said his colleague how much will be the fare and his colleague said £1.90 and I think he register that fare on his mini device. So considering this what can I expect?

 

[notmyrealname]

Apologies, I think I answered the wrong question and have removed my reply from a few minutes ago.

 

[AlterEgo]

Sorry to correct myself I have used nearly 5-6 months as I was not aware because I was the one who do the top ups and everything as my wife is not working. Secondly tfl caught me on different route that I don't usually take. So what you think there is some possibility of getting warning/fine letter?

The tfl officer also asked me from where did you start your journey I said him from last station and then he said his colleague how much will be the fare and his colleague said £1.90 and I think he register that fare on his mini device. So considering this what can I expect?

Most cases progress to the magistrates court where you will be convicted of a single specimen offence - the one where you were caught.

If you admitted to using the pass at other times, or claimed you thought you could use it, they will investigate other journeys and may ask for those offences to be taken into consideration.

 

[30907]

Sorry to correct myself I have used nearly 5-6 months as I was not aware because I was the one who do the top ups and everything as my wife is not working. Secondly tfl caught me on different route that I don't usually take.

Neither will make a significant difference.

So what you think there is some possibility of getting warning/fine letter?

It is always worth trying to explain, but AlterEgo has described the more likely course of events.
The offence will be one under the Railway Byelaws, which makes it very minor in terms of your status and employment. However, if you are convicted and fined, don't try to conceal the fact - that would be much more serious.

 

[Elecman]

Did your wife know you were using her card as TfL will,probably be writing to her to see if she was complicit with your using her card

 

[Leo12]

Neither will make a significant difference.

It is always worth trying to explain, but AlterEgo has described the more likely course of events.
The offence will be one under the Railway Byelaws, which makes it very minor in terms of your status and employment. However, if you are convicted and fined, don't try to conceal the fact - that would be much more serious.

Thank you for your reply. Are you sure if incase I will be summoned in court and I become convicted but it wont create any issue in terms of my employment and visa status?

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Did your wife know you were using her card as TfL will,probably be writing to her to see if she was complicit with your using her card

Yes she knew about it. But I havent read in this forum about that TfL might ask my wife about it.

 

[MarlowDonkey]

Yes she knew about it. But I havent read in this forum about that TfL might ask my wife about it.

Look a little deeper. Something that comes up relatively frequently is the use of the Freedom card by someone not the designated holder. Don'y Tfl confiscate such cards at the very least.
Presumably your wife's card had some concession on it like discounted fares. Otherwise plain Oyster cards are not user specific when no railcards or similar have been loaded.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thank you for your reply. Are you sure if incase I will be summoned in court and I become convicted but it wont create any issue in terms of my employment and visa status?

Nobody here can give any advice about your visa. You should ask the SIA about your conviction, if you do end up being convicted.

 

[Hadders]

Transport for London take misuse of 18+ Oyster cards very seriously and a prosecution under the TfL Bylaws is the usual outcome.

TfL will send you a Verification Letter, normally within a couple of weeks. The letter will ask you to confirm or deny the incident and ask you to give any mitigating circumstances which you would like them to take into account when deciding how to proceed.

I suggest you mention the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and TfL's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

TfL generally do not offer out of court settlements although in some very limited circumstances they have been known to issue a final warning instead of prosecution. Prosecutions are normally done through what is called a Single Justice Procedure Notice. This means that if you plead guilty it is not necessary to attend court in person (unless you choose to do), you simply return the form to the court with any mitigation you want them to tae into account and they will write to you with the details of the fine you have to pay.

If you are prosecuted and plead guilty (or are found guilty by the court) then you will have to pay:

- A fine based on your income (normally discounted by a third if you plead guilty at the earliest opportunity)
- A surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
- A contribution towards TfL's costs
- Compensation for the fares avoided

If you are found guilty then this is a criminal conviction. If you are prosecuted under the TfL Bylaws (which is what normally happens) then the conviction isn't normally recorded on the Police National Computer and won't normally appear on Basic or Standards DBS checks although we always advise people to be honest when asked if they have a conviction.

A criminal conviction for a railway ticketing matter won't normally affect future career prospects but do note that legally we are unable to comment or assist when it comes to immigration issues.

Here's a link to TfL's Revenue Enforcement & Prosecutions Policy which you might find worth reading:

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf

 

[furlong]

You say you topped it up yourself.
Did you buy any season tickets or travelcards on it?
Was there a railcard registered on it?

The best situation would be if you can show that, although you used someone else's 18+ card, in reality there was no difference between what you paid and what you would have paid had you used a normal card. In those circumstances you should present this as mitigation - that they lost no money by what you did - and try hard to persuade them not to prosecute.

Were there times when the amount paid was capped and you shared it between you within the capping period?

 

[Leo12]

Nobody here can give any advice about your visa. You should ask the SIA about your conviction, if you do end up being convicted.

I have checked their website they have mentioned about other convictions but not related to fare envision.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Nov 2024 ==

Transport for London take misuse of 18+ Oyster cards very seriously and a prosecution under the TfL Bylaws is the usual outcome.

TfL will send you a Verification Letter, normally within a couple of weeks. The letter will ask you to confirm or deny the incident and ask you to give any mitigating circumstances which you would like them to take into account when deciding how to proceed.

I suggest you mention the following in your reply:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and TfL's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

TfL generally do not offer out of court settlements although in some very limited circumstances they have been known to issue a final warning instead of prosecution. Prosecutions are normally done through what is called a Single Justice Procedure Notice. This means that if you plead guilty it is not necessary to attend court in person (unless you choose to do), you simply return the form to the court with any mitigation you want them to tae into account and they will write to you with the details of the fine you have to pay.

If you are prosecuted and plead guilty (or are found guilty by the court) then you will have to pay:

- A fine based on your income (normally discounted by a third if you plead guilty at the earliest opportunity)
- A surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
- A contribution towards TfL's costs
- Compensation for the fares avoided

If you are found guilty then this is a criminal conviction. If you are prosecuted under the TfL Bylaws (which is what normally happens) then the conviction isn't normally recorded on the Police National Computer and won't normally appear on Basic or Standards DBS checks although we always advise people to be honest when asked if they have a conviction.

A criminal conviction for a railway ticketing matter won't normally affect future career prospects but do note that legally we are unable to comment or assist when it comes to immigration issues.

Here's a link to TfL's Revenue Enforcement & Prosecutions Policy which you might find worth reading:

https://content.tfl.gov.uk/revenue-enforcement-and-prosecutions-policy.pdf

Thank you for your support.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Nov 2024 ==

You say you topped it up yourself.
Did you buy any season tickets or travelcards on it?
Was there a railcard registered on it?

The best situation would be if you can show that, although you used someone else's 18+ card, in reality there was no difference between what you paid and what you would have paid had you used a normal card. In those circumstances you should present this as mitigation - that they lost no money by what you did - and try hard to persuade them not to prosecute.

Were there times when the amount paid was capped and you shared it between you within the capping period?

No i use to do the weekly pass on that oyster so I cant argue on the basis of this.

 

[notmyrealname]

If it's of interest or helps you with your research, it's called fare evasion.

 

[Lockwood]

I have a daft question, and hope I do not sound too negative.

You have an SIA card, with your name and photograph on... You wouldn't expect to be able to use someone else's, or for them to be able to use yours. If you are working as a door supervisor, you would want to see someone's ID and not someone else's?

You didn't know that you cannot use an Oyster with someone else's name and photo?

I'm confused by the logical disconnect there