Nexus Metro Newcastle penalty fare

[Seeaddnine]

Hello folks,

A few days ago I received a penalty fair notice. I purchased a 4 week season ticket online, which takes 48 hours to be able to collect at a metro ticket kiosk.

When I was heading to work, I went on the kiosk and swiped my Pop card, but there was no option anywhere to load the ticket onto my card, only to renew ticket, or buy a different kind of ticket. The train showed up and I jumped on or I would have been late for work, I then approached a staff member at the gates and explained the situation to which I was swiftly given a fine and told to appeal.

Two days later I tried again at a kiosk to load it on, still with no option to. I ended up continuing with the renew ticket option to see if that was actually the way to load it on, hoping the swiping the bank card was for checking the card it was bought with, but no it just bought another full 4 week season ticket..

I have pictures of the machine at the time of the above paragraph showing the only options. I also have messages on my Nexus account, and bank statements, proving I had purchased it a few days before being issued with the penalty notice.

Because I had purchased a ticket before being issued and can prove it, do I have any standing even if it wasn't applied to the card? I'm hoping they accept my appeal, but in the event I don't and if I took it to court, do I stand a chance? I'm in financial dire straits and really can't afford to pay it sadly.

Kind regards and appreciate any help

 

[Pushpit]

Is your current Pop card blue/purple in colour? Or more red/orange? I may have misunderstood this, but I am under the impression you need - in the first instance - to apply online for the red/orange card, which takes about a week to arrive via the post, not the kiosk. You can then renew that season ticket via the kiosks, under the renew ticket option you mentioned above. However if you already had the red/orange card then you don't need to buy it online, you can just renew via the kiosks, which is what I think you saw on day 3. So I'm wondering if a new (second) card is en route to you via the post?

One week season tickets use a paper ticket so you don't need a Pop card for that, but they do go on to the Android Pop app if preferred. If your card is blue/purple then you have to wait for the new card in the post.

Depending on your response to the above, you probably have a case of the "genuine misunderstanding" category. Usually you best put the appeal in to slow down the need to pay. In the meantime it may be better to get a one week season ticket until it's clear what has happened here.

 

[Seeaddnine]

Hi thanks for your reply.

The pop card is rainbow coloured. When I initially applied for it, it arrived and then activated some days after. When it expired, I bought another 4 week season ticket on the nexus website, I didn't apply for any more pop cards.

The first ticket shows up as ready for collection on the website, and the second one (bought directly from kiosk) is active. However there still seems to be no way to actually load the first ticket onto the card (which I don't think should even be necessary, the first time you get a pop card it automatically activates).

On their website and in FAQs literally the only information available that I can find states when you buy it you can load it onto your card at a kiosk, but no elaboration or instructions.

Thank you for the information regarding the slow down of the appeal, do you know how I may go about that?

 

[Pushpit]

Hi thanks for your reply.

The pop card is rainbow coloured. When I initially applied for it, it arrived and then activated some days after. When it expired, I bought another 4 week season ticket on the nexus website, I didn't apply for any more pop cards.

The first ticket shows up as ready for collection on the website, and the second one (bought directly from kiosk) is active. However there still seems to be no way to actually load the first ticket onto the card (which I don't think should even be necessary, the first time you get a pop card it automatically activates).

On their website and in FAQs literally the only information available that I can find states when you buy it you can load it onto your card at a kiosk, but no elaboration or instructions.

Thank you for the information regarding the slow down of the appeal, do you know how I may go about that?

OK, so what I think you've done is applied for a new card, which may or may not be stuck in the post. You just go online to order the rainbow card for new applicants, all renewals (apart from Weekly season tickets) are done via the Renew button on the centre left side of the kiosk. You don't order season ticket renewals online, unless you need a new card (e.g. for students between academic years), you use the kiosk. Which you ended up doing on day 3 anyway, so presumably you've ended up paying for 2 season tickets and still got a Penalty Fare! In other words it's different to the PAYG system where you pay online via a typical credit card route, see your balance update, and then you need to do a tap somewhere in the system to get the Pop card balance to update fully.

The appeal process is here

Penalty Fares | nexus.org.uk

A Penalty Fare is £100 plus the price of the full single fare applicable for your intended journe

www.nexus.org.uk

unfortunately it involves a contracted out provider, Penalty Services Ltd, whose only job is to say "no". Third time around you get some semi-independent people who may take a more pro-customer view. But by appealing you postpone the 7 day deadline on paying the reduced level of penalty fare, and I think stop the possibility of prosecution (not sure on that point, Nexus may not be part of that provision). You need to get that letter off within 21 days, and in my view best within 7 days. The basis of the appeal is that you paid for, and held a season ticket, but the Pop card "did not update". Keeping it a bit vague at this point, deliberately. They will only say "appeal rejected" any way so don't spend too long on this.

What you should also do today is call Nexus during office hours
0191 20 20 747
and have a chat with them, since they may see the fact that at the very least you are owed the first season ticket back.

 

[Seeaddnine]

"Your Smartcard purchase​

Hello Mr XXX

Thank you for your recent purchase.

Please take a moment to check the details below:

Purchase number:
Purchase name:	Student Metro Season Ticket
Purchase cost:	£66.50

You need to load this product onto your smartcard before travelling. You can do this when you touch in at a Metro station validator or ticket machine (and at a gate if you have bought a PAYG top up).

You can load your product on to your card 48 hours after you buy it. Top ups will often be available the next day but we cannot guarantee this.

If you do not load your product before travelling, your smartcard may not be valid for travel and you could be issued with a Penalty Fare Notice.

Manage your account at buyandapply.nexus.org.uk

Thank you

Nexus Customer Services Team"



Here is the message I received regarding the first ticket on my Nexus account, which makes me pretty positive it was a ticket purchase and not a second pop card.

Also, here is an excerpt from the nexus website which states buying a ticket online is an option.



"How to buy

Buy your Metro Season Ticket online.

You can now buy a One Week Metro Season Ticket on our Android Pop app download now

Your Pop card will take about five working days to arrive in the post. Once you have your Pop card you can renew your one week, four week or annual Metro Season Ticket:

1. Online.
2. At any Metro station ticket machine. Watch the how-to guide here.

You can also buy a one week paper ticket Metro Season Ticket from a ticket machine without a Pop card.

To view ticket terms and conditions click here"



Thanks for the valuable advice regarding the appeals process, I had thought as much, what incentive would they have to accept an appeal the money grubbing bastards..

Does this new information change your appeal advice in any way? Thanks again for your time!

 

[Pushpit]

I still think you should telephone Nexus, a human based in Nexus' office may be willing to help if you are polite and charming. You still have an unused Season Ticket floating around the system somewhere, by the sounds of it, and if the kiosks won't help then you have to telephone.

I am cynical about the appeal process, you could send the quote from Nexus Customer Services Team, but they are likely to just point out that you were warned in that note about the risk of a penalty fare. Hence the appeal has the merit of giving you more time, but for the first two appeals they aren't going to be helpful, they are not paid to be helpful, so they aren't helpful. It's on the third appeal that you go into more detail and point out the crucial point that you did try to load the season ticket. It may be there was a local IT failure somewhere in all of this, for example.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks for the valuable advice regarding the appeals process, I had thought as much, what incentive would they have to accept an appeal the money grubbing bastards..

word of warning - whatever you think of them do not use this attitude in any dialogue with them (phone or anything else) - they have got your money and you need it back - asking nicely is the best way to start that dialogue....because they are in stronger position than you are given the money is in their bank not yours!

as it happens the Appeals body seems to be 'independent' of Nexus from what @Pushpit (which is in theory how you would want it) - so they won't have an incentive to keep your money, just an incentive to do less work in considering your appeal properly - which is a bit different.

Good luck with this of course, you have my sympathy. Operators want people to move to smart card type ticketing as it saves them money, so they need to make sure it works for the very same customers!

 

[Seeaddnine]

word of warning - whatever you think of them do not use this attitude in any dialogue with them (phone or anything else) - they have got your money and you need it back - asking nicely is the best way to start that dialogue...

Oh of course! I would never direct my annoyance at the innocent workers, it is not their fault.

A small update: I called nexus and they were very helpful and very nice. They informed me they had a system issue on those days and they can see my ticket is still pending. They are issuing me a refund and putting a note on my file so that when I appeal, the appeals team will refer to Nexus and be told that there was a system issue, so it should be struck down.

I'll update again when the result of the appeal is known so that anyone in the future with a similar issue can have a thread to refer to.

Thanks for all your help everybody, have a great weekend.

 

[SuspectUsual]

That’s good news, and it’s good to see a bit of customer friendliness / common sense prevailing

 

[Pushpit]

Thanks for the update, I had a feeling that local Nexus staff in Newcastle would be friendly and helpful about this. One advantage - of many - for living in the North East of England!