Pathfinder Railtours issues with West Coast Railway supplied rolling stock.

[Henffordd]

Apparently Pathfinder received a barrage of complaints and abuse from irate passengers after their most recent trip using ex-Riviera stock which led them to issue a statement threatening to ban anyone who does the same from participating in any future tours.

... wrong sort of customer??

 

[JonathanH]

Ex-Riviera standard class Mark 2s have been have been hired out by WCRC for a Polar Express contract.

Just as they were hired out by Riviera last year for a similar contract. Problem is that this year there are two such contracts which may, for all we know, have actually been signed by Riviera before the WCRC sale.

Last year, a Christmas Pathfinder tour was able to use WCRC Mark 1 and early Mark 2 rolling stock. That isn't possible this year. WCRC also have commitments with Railway Touring Company.

 

[CHESHIRECAT]

With apologies to Aviation fans

 

[Sheldonian]

Think that not having coach heating on Polar express trains would add to the realism.

 

[Vexed]

With apologies to Aviation fans

Long live Precious. Not exactly something I though I'd see on here!

 

[47434]

... wrong sort of customer??

Not sure that's the case. Whilst it is frustrating that WCRC failed to meet the service spec, it clearly isn't on to lambast the Bert or Ada serving you a cup of tea from Pathfinders team. Appreciate people need to vent but direct it appropriately. B&A on minimum wage simply don't deserve the vitriol.

 

[Merle Haggard]

I wonder if poor condition stock is just accepted for steam specials.
The only privately run steam charter I have been on was a present from a friend that accompanied me. I travel by train a lot, and I took it for granted that, in early March, the train would be heated and dressed accordingly. The train started from their depot, but we joined it at a large station after a few miles. When we boarded, our coach was unheated. The other passengers clearly expected this - they had several layers of clothing and very thick socks. I asked our coach steward about it, and he said that they might be able to do something about it at the destination, but I regarded this as a fob-off because they could have done it at their depot before leaving unless it was a 'too-difficult' fault. it was only when walking down to the 'buffet' (table with tea urn in the van of a BSK) that I realised that all the other coaches were warm. I approached our steward again and suggested out of fairness that, for the return, we should be exchanged with the passengers in another coach. He reacted to my suggestion with contempt.
Apart from freezing the itinerary was changed after boarding so we went down Shap behind a Jubilee instead of up it. Certainly a memorable birthday present, don't think I'll lash out £100 to endure a repeat...

 

[12LDA28C]

I wonder if poor condition stock is just accepted for steam specials.
The only privately run steam charter I have been on was a present from a friend that accompanied me. I travel by train a lot, and I took it for granted that, in early March, the train would be heated and dressed accordingly. The train started from their depot, but we joined it at a large station after a few miles. When we boarded, our coach was unheated. The other passengers clearly expected this - they had several layers of clothing and very thick socks. I asked our coach steward about it, and he said that they might be able to do something about it at the destination, but I regarded this as a fob-off because they could have done it at their depot before leaving unless it was a 'too-difficult' fault. it was only when walking down to the 'buffet' (table with tea urn in the van of a BSK) that I realised that all the other coaches were warm. I approached our steward again and suggested out of fairness that, for the return, we should be exchanged with the passengers in another coach. He reacted to my suggestion with contempt.
Apart from freezing the itinerary was changed after boarding so we went down Shap behind a Jubilee instead of up it. Certainly a memorable birthday present, don't think I'll lash out £100 to endure a repeat...

The ex-Riviera stock which has suffered ongoing issues is not just used on steam tours and is used more frequently on diesel charters. For example a Euston to Buxton tour last year where portable fans were used in lieu of working AC but this arrangement was so ineffective that tour participants were offered a partial refund.

 

[renegademaster]

I wonder if poor condition stock is just accepted for steam specials.
The only privately run steam charter I have been on was a present from a friend that accompanied me. I travel by train a lot, and I took it for granted that, in early March, the train would be heated and dressed accordingly. The train started from their depot, but we joined it at a large station after a few miles. When we boarded, our coach was unheated. The other passengers clearly expected this - they had several layers of clothing and very thick socks. I asked our coach steward about it, and he said that they might be able to do something about it at the destination, but I regarded this as a fob-off because they could have done it at their depot before leaving unless it was a 'too-difficult' fault. it was only when walking down to the 'buffet' (table with tea urn in the van of a BSK) that I realised that all the other coaches were warm. I approached our steward again and suggested out of fairness that, for the return, we should be exchanged with the passengers in another coach. He reacted to my suggestion with contempt.
Apart from freezing the itinerary was changed after boarding so we went down Shap behind a Jubilee instead of up it. Certainly a memorable birthday present, don't think I'll lash out £100 to endure a repeat...

There isn't much good quality loco hauled stock that isn't being used in normal service and even then most of that is getting tired. Unlikely but would be nice if WCRC brought a rake from Chiltern after Chiltern gets rid of their mark 3s

 

[JonathanH]

Unlikely but would be nice if WCRC brought a rake from Chiltern after Chiltern gets rid of their mark 3s

What for? They are equally tired, or Chiltern wouldn't be trying to replace them. Haven't corrosion issues been cited?

 

[ls2270]

Has anyone who was booked on any of the cancelled tours for the remainder of this year had any direct contact from Pathfinder to advise them of the cancellation? I was booked on the 21st December Thames one and have had no contact regarding its cancellation. If I wasn’t on here I would be blissfully unaware!

 

[renegademaster]

What for? They are equally tired, or Chiltern wouldn't be trying to replace them. Haven't corrosion issues been cited?

The lights and air con work , which puts them above some of the Rivera coaches, plus random bits of interior don't fall off

 

[Bikeman78]

Every TOC has a DOTE (Defective On Train Equipment) document that stipulates the action taken in the event of (believe it or not) defective on train equipment, such as lighting, train heating & toilets.
From memory (as I haven’t read it for a couple of years) the Rule Book states all trains MUST have working lighting at all times. Toilets & heating aren’t so restrictive but maybe are in a TOC DOTE.

For the purposes of this, West Coast are classed as a TOC & should have this documented. Commercial considerations should override the DOTE.

Would be interesting to see what the ORR have to say about it………

And passenger preference doesn’t override the Rule Book or DOTE

I have been on a few tours over the years where the lights went out whenever the train stopped. Regarding heating, I wouldn't see the funny side of paying 140 quid to sit in a cold coach for 14 hours. That is a deal breaker and if I experience that on a railtour, it is likely to be my last.

 

[Bill57p9]

I have been on a few tours over the years where the lights went out whenever the train stopped. Regarding heating, I wouldn't see the funny side of paying 140 quid to sit in a cold coach for 14 hours. That is a deal breaker and if I experience that on a railtour, it is likely to be my last.

Completely agree, however one has to be careful to ensure that frustrations are made clear to staff on the ground in a respectful manner.
For £140 a head, it isn’t unreasonable to expect things like heating and lighting to be functional.

A long long time ago (early 90s), I went on a railtour which had no working lights in our carriage. I was young, it was an adventure, but no it isn’t acceptable in the dark!