How are you all coping with the £3 cap?

[Lewisham2221]

Well, what a great example of an 'I'm alright Jack' attitude.

£1 extra may not be much for you. However, for many bus users doing single journeys (not in possession of a free concessionary pass), it is an unwanted extra expense.

Also it means in some cases having to purchase more expensive Day Tickets. Whilst these remain reasonably priced by some operators. It is not true of all.

Even the bus operators were pushing for a tapered easing off of the £2 fare, which has been ignored by this 'for the people' and 'net zero' Government.

In my area, the £3 fare cap is still a saving of £3 per journey compared to some of the £6 single fares that were charged before the cap (which would almost certainly have increased beyond £6 by now if the cap wasn't in place).

There are now three tiers of adult single fares being charged - £1.90, £2.40 and £3.00 - everything hasn't jumped to £3.00 like all the doomsayers were suggesting.

People are acting like the £2 cap was some sort of long standing, nationwide, blanket flat fare - not a temporary measure, a cap rather than a flat fare and entirely voluntary for operators to participate in.

 

[Mark J]

I think the argument is, there was a better way of 'tapering off' the £2 bus fare.

As previously stated, a number of bus companies unsuccessfully lobbied for a 'tapering off' method. Say £2.50, before going up to £3.

 

[londonteacher]

N

I thought the £2 singles had to be activated by 31st December 2024. That is the way I read it on various bus company apps.

No definitely still work on Arriva, used some today and had it confirmed that they will work. Other companies may have been different, but with Arriva I have done this multiple times such as when the monthly ticket rose in price.

 

[py_megapixel]

The biggest change "they" could make, right away, is the concept used in many locations in the USA of a transfer fare. For no extra cost, you can continue your journey where a change of buses is needed - within certain time limits.

Funnily enough, Transport for Greater Manchester is about to introduce that, from the end of this week.

 

[Harpers Tate]

(assuming petrol or diesel, rather than electric

Not a valid assumption in this case.

 

[Edvid]

I think the argument is, there was a better way of 'tapering off' the £2 bus fare.

As previously stated, a number of bus companies unsuccessfully lobbied for a 'tapering off' method. Say £2.50, before going up to £3.

HM Treasury wanted it removed outright. That we still have an England-wide cap at all this calendar year (the DfT's desired approach, with modelling undertaken at £2.50 / £3) in that context is fortunate, much as those on low incomes may feel otherwise.

Here's the full list of participating operators:

£3 national bus fare cap

A list of bus companies and bus routes included in the £3 bus fare cap scheme.

www.gov.uk

 

[Nippy]

The Arriva Orbit student day ticket's currently £4.50, making it cheaper than two singles, let alone for journeys using multiple buses each way. I think that was the case two years ago as well, but I can't remember the exact student day Orbit cost then.

I’m a long way passed being a student. . I fall into the between Student and free bus pass bracket. I only ever use a bus if I have no choice really.

 

[Eyersey468]

The £2 fare cap had to rise at some point so I feel people can't really complain that it ended, though I do agree no thought was given as to how to end it and all they have done is push the cliff edge to the end of 2025

 

[stevieinselby]

So again, how did people cope before the £2 cap was introduced? Were they not using buses then either?

Energy price rises, higher interest rates meaning higher mortgage or rent costs, and increased food prices, have all squeezed people's incomes compared to where they were a few years ago. That's why the fares cap was introduced in the first place!

 

[johncrossley]

The biggest change "they" could make, right away, is the concept used in many locations in the USA of a transfer fare. For no extra cost, you can continue your journey where a change of buses is needed - within certain time limits.

Many if not most European towns and cities allow you to change between buses, trams and metros within an hour or other specified time period. The £2 fare cap was really £4 or more in reality, depending on the journey.

 

[derbybusdepot]

Not complaining. Just not using them, other than as a last resort. "Hardly expensive"? That depends on how you look at it.

If I want to go from here to the shopping mall then it's two buses. So £3 becomes £6. Round trip becomes £12. Two people travelling becomes £24.
Alternatively, it's one car ride, at a fuel cost* of under 40p round trip and the other person goes free.

The biggest change "they" could make, right away, is the concept used in many locations in the USA of a transfer fare. For no extra cost, you can continue your journey where a change of buses is needed - within certain time limits.

* Other costs conceded, but as the large part of those are fixed, and (as many do) I already have "need" for a car, those are already sunk costs. The major consideration here has to be the marginal cost of making the trip. Even if I double that fuel cost to account for other marginal wear etc., I still only get to 80p.

Fully agree re transfer tickets, difficult especially if more than one operator though. Many places in Europe have timed tickets which last 60 or 90 minutes, changing as much as you like to complete your journey.

It's always been odd to have a flat £2, and now flat £3 fare, no matter what the distance of the trip is.

Although it partially simplified fares, now it is £3 there are more examples where single fares are below this "cap" - so perhaps it makes bus travel seem more expensive than it really is?

 

[12LDA28C]

Energy price rises, higher interest rates meaning higher mortgage or rent costs, and increased food prices, have all squeezed people's incomes compared to where they were a few years ago. That's why the fares cap was introduced in the first place!

Exactly, which was why I stated that a £1 rise in bus fare is pretty insignificant when compared to how much other prices have risen. As others have said, people should consider themselves lucky that the cap hasn't been removed completely.

 

[londonteacher]

HM Treasury wanted it removed outright. That we still have an England-wide cap at all this calendar year (the DfT's desired approach, with modelling undertaken at £2.50 / £3) in that context is fortunate, much as those on low incomes may feel otherwise.

Here's the full list of participating operators:

£3 national bus fare cap

A list of bus companies and bus routes included in the £3 bus fare cap scheme.

www.gov.uk

There are definitely errors on the website. For example, Arriva Kent and Surrey and Arriva Thameside have duplicate routes such as the 132. Arriva Thameside also have the Fasttrack routes still mentioned. Looks like a copy and paste from the previous.

 

[Man of Kent]

There are definitely errors on the website. For example, Arriva Kent and Surrey and Arriva Thameside have duplicate routes such as the 132. Arriva Thameside also have the Fasttrack routes still mentioned. Looks like a copy and paste from the previous.

The AKT list includes routes north and south of the Thames. So the 132 is Colchester-Braintree, not Chatham-Hempstead Valley. But yes, it hasn't been updated - AKT190 not included, for example.

 

[ScotGG]

As expected some I'm alright Jack responses. Lucky for you if you live in a place where local govt have control of buses and retained a cap. Many places don't.

My neighbor to give an example is a zero hour worker. Weekly or monthly passes are no use as the work rota isn't known in advance. They now have a sizable increase and the flat rate for them has jumped straight up to £3 each way here. That hits what with rents rising quickly and at all time highs plus energy costs. A one day pass has predicably jumped up again too and is expensive.

As also stated before child fares have gone up a lot in addition to the adult fare increases yesterday and here almost all journeys worth taking have jumped straight to the £3 cap. It's already putting families off bus use.

It's a great incentive to increase car use and congestion for those who have the choice, and for those who don't it's hitting some people at the bottom. I've seen some tokenistic fares below £3 but almost no use as so short in length and not serving busy areas of employment and retail.

The cost to Treasury was very small compared to wider social and economic benefits and alleviating congestion. Tapering at a lower rise while planning for regulation I could get behind. What they've done is hamfisted and will put back bus use in many areas.

 

[philthetube]

I think there should be a cap on seasons as well, maybe £12.50 weekly, £40 monthly.

 

[RT4038]

Many if not most European towns and cities allow you to change between buses, trams and metros within an hour or other specified time period. The £2 fare cap was really £4 or more in reality, depending on the journey.

The biggest change "they" could make, right away, is the concept used in many locations in the USA of a transfer fare. For no extra cost, you can continue your journey where a change of buses is needed - within certain time limits.

.

Such a concession in the UK will come at a cost (because some existing passengers currently buying two tickets will instead only have to pay for one). Who is going to pay for this revenue loss, and probably more practically, how would it be calculated?

If the Government's policy is to reduce or eliminate the subsidy bill for the £2, why would 'they' consider funding any other fare concession? The laws of economics (money in must exceed money out) cannot be suspended for bus operators!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

It's always been odd to have a flat £2, and now flat £3 fare, no matter what the distance of the trip is.

Except, of course, as discussed upthread, that this is not automatically the case. In some areas, the capped single fare will now be £3, in others, it's £2 or £2.50 or maybe something else again. The lack of uniformity now could perhaps be a tad confusing. Having said that, a £3 fare (if that) for a single journey such as Hereford->Hay-on-Wye or Penrith->Keswick still represents great value.

 

[Mal]

I notice that this is about a £3 fare CAP. That would suggest that the maximum fare would be £3 and not necessarily a £3 flat fare. I know that a lot of companies have a flat fare system and this does help to speed up boarding, but I think if the government decided to raise the cap in two stages (to £2 50) in January then £3.00 in July) then the impact may not have been so severe.

 

[nanstallon]

You could put a big flashing sign outside everyone's house, and post leaflets through their door daily, and there'd still be people who will swear blindly that they haven't been told of a change.

Nobody as blind as someone who doesn't want to see!

I don't know what the age profile here is, but I do wonder how many pensioners are automatically complaining about this, despite having free bus passes (at least after 09.30 and in your own nation)!

 

[DDB]

There were hints around the announcement that the government was going to use the year to think about what comes next. Dense urban networks are probably now mostly out of the cap for practical purposes given day tickets and season tickets and also don't need the subsidy.
What is needed is something better targeted at the struggling rural services.

 

[TheSmiths82]

It is still £2 here in Greater Manchester, but a £3 fee ticket might make me think twice about the journey. For example if we didn't have the Bee Network and a journey I sometimes take would now cost £6, takes just over an hour on two buses, that journey is £4 now, but will be £2 when the hoppers kick in. If it was £6 (2 x £3 singles) then if I couldn't drive I an Uber which takes just 15 minutes would be very tempting.

 

[Grumpy Git]

I notice that this is about a £3 fare CAP. That would suggest that the maximum fare would be £3 and not necessarily a £3 flat fare. I know that a lot of companies have a flat fare system and this does help to speed up boarding, but I think if the government decided to raise the cap in two stages (to £2 50) in January then £300 in July) then the impact may not have been so severe.

A £300 cap from July, do you get to keep the bus?

 

[GusB]

I wish people would remember that it is a cap and not a flat fare. Those whose fares have gone up to £3 should be considering how much their fare would cost if the cap didn't exist at all. Are you still better off with the cap?

 

[Non Multi]

I wish people would remember that it is a cap and not a flat fare. Those whose fares have gone up to £3 should be considering how much their fare would cost if the cap didn't exist at all. Are you still better off with the cap?

60p saving per return trip for trips into the nearest town. My local bus operator still publishes fare tables online.

 

[Oxfordblues]

Meanwhile over in Luxembourg the bus fare is precisely zero and has been for five years. Can you imagine if that were tried here? The UK press would say the buses were "unremunerative" at best or "hopelessly loss-making" at worst. There would be calls to shut-down the bus service to save money. But just think of all the savings in terms of ticket-issuing, dwell-times at bus stops and teams of revenue protection officers intimidating passengers. A different world!

 

[Mcr Warrior]

My local bus operator still publishes fare tables online.

There's a novelty. Often seems to be something akin to a state secret finding out that sort of basic information!

 

[Falcon1200]

A different world!

Given the comparative sizes of Luxembourg and the UK, or even 'just' England, different worlds are exactly what they are!

 

[A S Leib]

Meanwhile over in Luxembourg the bus fare is precisely zero and has been for five years.

Down from €4 for a billet longue durée / Dagesbilljee in 2017, valid for one journey anywhere on public transport in the country; not entirely comparable to the UK.

Given the comparative sizes of Luxembourg and the UK, or even 'just' England, different worlds are exactly what they are!

The UK's 94,000 square miles and Victoria's 88,000, with the latter having a V/Line cap of $11 / £5.50, although I suspect there's lots of differences there (population distribution, frequency) as well.

 

[duncombec]

There's a novelty. Often seems to be something akin to a state secret finding out that sort of basic information!

It's not universal, depending on how the operator has uploaded it, but you can often access fare tables on bustimes, by adding /fares to the end of the timetable URL, e.g. https://bustimes.org/services/101-maidstone-gillingham becomes https://bustimes.org/services/101-maidstone-gillingham/fares.
Transdev and some Stagecoach ops in particular seem to do this in a way that bustimes can't easily link to the data, but you may still be able to access it via https://bustimes.org/fares/.