How are you all coping with the £3 cap?

[TheGrandWazoo]

So i have now purchased rail tickets for work for the whole of January and February at a cost of £94.20 (railcard reduction) If I'd have stuck with the bus on the new cap price it would come in at £234!! Cheerio Arriva Midlands!

For parity, your bus fare would have to be £1.21

 

[A S Leib]

Newcastle to Carlisle on Stagecoach for £3 is good value. I wonder what the price was before.

As of May 2019 according to a Cumbria County Council PDF, Carlisle to Newcastle was £8.20 for an adult single or £10.90 for a North East Explorer. Carlisle to Workington was £7.50 / £11.50 (North West Day Explorer), and to Dumfries was £8 for a Dumfries & Galloway Discovery ticket.

 

[AlastairFraser]

The issue that a lot of posters seem to be missing is that a lot of people who can will switch back to driving now, and that the increased wear and tear on roads may cost the taxpayer more money anyway!

We do now need to move rapidly towards integrated smartcard systems, based on conurbations/counties that cover all operators, if we want to introduce some stability in the viability of our bus networks (especially with transfer traffic being crucial for a lot of rural and suburban passengers trying to reach different destinations within a town for shopping and leisure.)

 

[Russel]

People actually pay to use buses?

My local council seem to have dished out ENCTS passes like sweets!

 

[buslad1988]

In places like Ipswich (where I live) the fare is still £2 adult single - fairly reasonable I’d say for a town of its size! What would increase value is more cross-town services to places like the Rail Station/Hospital avoiding the need for changes and paying more than once or for transfer tickets.

The fare cap (especially now) should be more focussed on long distance, inter-urban travellers where £3 for a single is still a bargain.

What annoys me is… YES it’s a £1 increase a single. However people will still fork out £4/5 on a single coffee etc.

People want everything for nothing in this country - especially where public transport is concerned!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The issue that a lot of posters seem to be missing is that a lot of people who can will switch back to driving now, and that the increased wear and tear on roads may cost the taxpayer more money anyway!

Will there really be a lot of people who will switch back to driving now? Seemingly a lot of people who've been on this site have gone from train to bus...but then again, that might be more reflective of the membership on a public transport orientated site!

 

[Nammer]

Not changed my travelling habits. I still use the bus rather than any other form of transport for local journeys.

 

[Russel]

Not changed my travelling habits. I still use the bus rather than any other form of transport for local journeys.

Even at £2, if I was to do a local journey with my partner, it still works out cheaper to use the car.

£2 each, out and back = £8
£3 each, out and back = £12
Car, £2-3 petrol, £2-4 parking = £7

 

[Bertie the bus]

The issue that a lot of posters seem to be missing is that a lot of people who can will switch back to driving now, and that the increased wear and tear on roads may cost the taxpayer more money anyway!

Is there any hard evidence people switched to buses in the first place? If the (still updated) government Covid transport usage spreadsheet is accurate then bus usage is still below what it was 5 years ago. It looks like all that has happened is the government has paid some of the fare of people who already used buses which, I believe, was the main aim anyway at a time we were experiencing high inflation.

 

[Simon75]

My local bus company serving the routes I sometime use dropped out of the capping scheme a couple of years ago. So no change here just north of Hereford

Diamond West/ East Midlands??
I believe they left the scheme
The 'Red' group of companies around Aylesbury were never part of the scheme

 

[YouLostAStar]

In places like Ipswich (where I live) the fare is still £2 adult single - fairly reasonable I’d say for a town of its size! What would increase value is more cross-town services to places like the Rail Station/Hospital avoiding the need for changes and paying more than once or for transfer tickets.

The fare cap (especially now) should be more focussed on long distance, inter-urban travellers where £3 for a single is still a bargain.

What annoys me is… YES it’s a £1 increase a single. However people will still fork out £4/5 on a single coffee etc.

People want everything for nothing in this country - especially where public transport is concerned!

Coffee is a luxury, transport is essential.
If people are struggling then they could go for a cheaper coffee at half the price of a premium one but if the bus prices go up there's no way of saving that money.
More accessible public transport is a benefit to the country, we should be actively looking at how to get people out of cars as much as is reasonably possible

 

[Llandudno]

Will there really be a lot of people who will switch back to driving now? Seemingly a lot of people who've been on this site have gone from train to bus...but then again, that might be more reflective of the membership on a public transport orientated site!

It’s possible that some passengers in the north switched from train to bus because of Northern cancelling so many trains…?

 

[PeterC]

The 'Red' group of companies around Aylesbury were never part of the scheme

The Red companies were late joining but according to Bucks Council are all parti imaging now.

 

[Mark L]

Some people definitely live under a rock

It’s a bit like the passengers who board a bus and claim that their phone (if that’s how they planned to pay) has just run out of charge.

 

[IanD]

What annoys me is… YES it’s a £1 increase a single. However people will still fork out £4/5 on a single coffee etc.

Thee people struggling to afford a 50% increase in bus fares are not likely to be the same people paying £4/5 for a coffee.

 

[Mark L]

Thee people struggling to afford a 50% increase in bus fares are not likely to be the same people paying £4/5 for a coffee.

I wouldn’t bank on it! They probably also have the latest iPhone.

 

[Gloster]

I wouldn’t bank on it! They probably also have the latest iPhone.

Unfortunately, the modern system is such that anyone who has to deal with any form of modern bureaucracy is going to have to have an iPhone. The financial consequences of not doing so are worse than the ‘phones cost. It has unfortunately become a necessity for everybody who has to interact with officialdom: those of us who don’t have one have to look after ourselves. Luckily, I can.

As to the main question: most of the people I saw today were either old or using cards. The latter either haven’t noticed or know they will hit the weekly cap.

 

[Starmill]

However people will still fork out £4/5 on a single coffee etc.

I'm not sure if the marketplace for coffee is something you're familiar with but there's loads of places where you can get decent price hot drinks, Greggs and McDonald's are the obvious examples and notably both offer a loyalty payback. Take your own cups to Pret and you get filter coffee at 49p a time. I am not saying that coffees for £5 aren't out there, they are of course, but it's a luxury purchase and there are loads of options, I've never paid that much for one drink myself. You get a great choice. You don't usually get any choice at all when it comes to buses, the only choice is use it or don't.

Unfortunately, the modern system is such that anyone who has to deal with any form of modern bureaucracy is going to have to have an iPhone. The financial consequences of not doing so are worse than the ‘phones cost. It has unfortunately become a necessity for everybody who has to interact with officialdom: those of us who don’t have one have to look after ourselves. Luckily, I can.

As to the main question: most of the people I saw today were either old or using cards. The latter either haven’t noticed or know they will hit the weekly cap.

I do agree it's impossible to participate in society to the full nowadays without an entry level smartphone. You are excluded from so many things if you don't have one.

 

[dk1]

It’s a bit like the passengers who board a bus and claim that their phone (if that’s how they planned to pay) has just run out of charge.

Same on the trains, no patience with them. Some even have the cheek to say its not my fault you should have phone chargers

 

[Eyersey468]

Same on the trains, no patience with them. Some even have the cheek to say its not my fault you should have phone chargers

We sometimes get it on the coaches as well

 

[stevieinselby]

Unfortunately, the modern system is such that anyone who has to deal with any form of modern bureaucracy is going to have to have an iPhone. The financial consequences of not doing so are worse than the ‘phones cost. It has unfortunately become a necessity for everybody who has to interact with officialdom: those of us who don’t have one have to look after ourselves. Luckily, I can.

There's a big difference between having "the latest iPhone" and having a smartphone.
An iPhone 16 deal with my mobile provider costs £36/month plus £100 up front – or a Motorola E14 costs £10/month and nothing up front.
The latter is perfectly adequate for making calls, taking photos, listening to music and browsing the web, everything that people might reasonably need to do, but is significantly more affordable for someone who is struggling financially.
A used handset and SIM-only contract could work out even cheaper.
But to the casual observer (especially a tabloid-minded one who thinks that poor people should have no measure of comfort or pleasure in their lives), there will be little difference between someone using a top of the range iPhone, a budget Motorola, or a 5-year-old hand-me-down, it all looks like a smartphone from a distance.

 

[Via Bank]

So many people on this thread have never had to make every penny work, or had £1 be the difference between having lunch and going hungry… and it shows.

The bus fare cap for working-age adults was £2. It is now £3, a 50% increase, and fares may well skyrocket when this cap expires.

If someone chooses to treat themselves to a flat white or a bar of chocolate or a slightly nicer phone, that’s their own business. If the bus fare increase means they have to cut back on something nice, with no corresponding leap in the quality of the service… well, it’s the bus that’s going to look like bad value.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

You don't usually get any choice at all when it comes to buses, the only choice is use it or don't.

The cap was initiated to help with the cost of living at a time of increasing fuel and energy prices. The point is that if you have to travel, it was softening the blow. If you have the choice of not travelling, then it’s arguable that a) it’s essential and b) that you’d fork out even £4 for something you don’t need?

 

[Ghostbus]

The cap was initiated to help with the cost of living at a time of increasing fuel and energy prices. The point is that if you have to travel, it was softening the blow. If you have the choice of not travelling, then it’s arguable that a) it’s essential and b) that you’d fork out even £4 for something you don’t need?

I seem to recall it was more about encouraging people who had never used the bus, or had stopped using it due to Covid, to give it a try.

A much needed kick start for the recovery of buses themselves, and the the other sectors who took an absolute kicking in Covid.

Essential travel is a tricky business. If it was essential that I get to my nearest ENT department, that's a four bus round trip. Well over the price of a day ticket. Schools, pharmacies, parcel depots, they're all in walking distance.

Everything else is in town. For which the cap was nice, but softening the blow is perhaps a stretch, depending on the exact reason for my essential journey.

 

[Kite159]

Diamond West/ East Midlands??
I believe they left the scheme
The 'Red' group of companies around Aylesbury were never part of the scheme

From memory one of the local independent operators in the Hereford was part of the scheme when it first launched in January 2023 but dropped out of it at some point in 2023.

Considering 1955LR mentioned Hereford I would imagine it was that company. Wasn't Diamond buses a late joiner?

 

[AlastairFraser]

Will there really be a lot of people who will switch back to driving now? Seemingly a lot of people who've been on this site have gone from train to bus...but then again, that might be more reflective of the membership on a public transport orientated site!

I agree that this site is not really indicative of the wider population, but, yes, once the price of a return bus commuting or leisure trip goes above the marginal cost of driving plus parking, then people will naturally switch. Price is the only factor that is guaranteed to beat convenience factors.

Is there any hard evidence people switched to buses in the first place? If the (still updated) government Covid transport usage spreadsheet is accurate then bus usage is still below what it was 5 years ago. It looks like all that has happened is the government has paid some of the fare of people who already used buses which, I believe, was the main aim anyway at a time we were experiencing high inflation.

Honestly I'm struggling to find any, but will try again later.

 

[Starmill]

The cap was initiated to help with the cost of living at a time of increasing fuel and energy prices. The point is that if you have to travel, it was softening the blow. If you have the choice of not travelling, then it’s arguable that a) it’s essential and b) that you’d fork out even £4 for something you don’t need?

I don't disagree with that at all, I'm simply saying it's not comparable with coffee takeaway. In any case, most travel isn't essential in the true sense of being unable to live without it. It's a spectrum where some things are easier to do without than others. People could all be forced to only walk or cycle to work or if they can't they can only work from home. But people need it to live decent lives in a modern economy, because that's not a world we'd any of us want to live in.

The cap didn't really make any difference to me personally anyway if you apply a "need" test, as I use an annual season ticket.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I seem to recall it was more about encouraging people who had never used the bus, or had stopped using it due to Covid, to give it a try.

A much needed kick start for the recovery of buses themselves, and the the other sectors who took an absolute kicking in Covid.

Essential travel is a tricky business. If it was essential that I get to my nearest ENT department, that's a four bus round trip. Well over the price of a day ticket. Schools, pharmacies, parcel depots, they're all in walking distance.

Everything else is in town. For which the cap was nice, but softening the blow is perhaps a stretch, depending on the exact reason for my essential journey.

I'm afraid your recollection is misremembered. There was the Covid bus grant to operators (CBSSG) but the fare cap was squarely aimed at the cost of living crisis. Remember that at the same time, there was (and still is) a 5p/litre cut in fuel duty so not giving something to non-car users was a bit of an anomaly. See this from when the cap was extended https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-extends-2-bus-fare-cap-and-protects-vital-services

Millions of passengers across England will continue to ‘Get Around for £2’ and access vital bus services thanks to £500 million in government funding, supporting people with the cost of living and ensuring long-term stability in the sector.

The Transport Secretary Mark Harper today (17 May 2023) confirmed £300 million to protect vital routes and improve services until 2025 that people rely on for work, education, medical appointments and shopping.

To help people with cost of living pressures and save on everyday travel costs, the government will also provide up to £200 million to continue capping single bus fares at £2 outside London until the end of October 2023 and then at £2.50 until 30 November 2024 – when the government will review their effectiveness and future bus fares.

The Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) estimates that inflation will be halved by the end of this year, and capping fares at £2.50 until November 2024 will create longer-term certainty for bus users over the next year. The fare cap will be reviewed ahead of November 2024.

The move is an essential part of the government’s Help for Households initiative to support everyone through the increased cost of living, and will particularly benefit those on lower incomes who take nearly 3 times as many bus trips than those on higher incomes.

During the pandemic, bus usage dropped as low as 10% of pre-pandemic levels and, while passenger levels have recovered to around 85 to 90%, the fare cap aims to encourage people back on the bus, which can help reduce congestion and emissions.

Prime Minister Rishi Sunak said:

By extending the £2 fare cap, we’re making sure bus travel remains accessible and affordable for everyone while helping to ease cost of living pressures.
Buses connect our communities and play a vital role in growing the economy; they transport people to work, take our kids to school and make sure patients can get to doctors’ appointments.
That’s why we’re determined to protect local routes and encourage more people onto the bus, ensuring people can get around easily and in an affordable way.

Transport Secretary Mark Harper said:

Taking the bus is the most popular form of public transport and millions of people rely on these vital services every day.
That’s why we’re investing half a billion pounds to help people save money amid cost of living pressures and continue to level up transport in all parts of the country, doing our bit to help halve inflation and grow the economy.

While initially introduced only as a temporary measure, we are extending the £2 fare cap for the second time to continue helping people save money on travel. Since it started on 1 January this year, the £2 fare has encouraged more people to use the bus.

Operators such as Go-Ahead have carried more than 16 million passengers at £2 since 1 January 2023, helping them save on average a third off fares. Bus operators that are continuing the £2 fare cap scheme will be confirmed in due course.

The additional funding announced today will be shared between local transport authorities and bus operators to protect and improve routes across England and demonstrates our commitment to returning bus sector to a long-term sustainable financial footing. The new funding models will protect vulnerable routes while allowing local authorities and operators to determine the routes that work for local areas.

This builds on over 3 years’ worth of government support totalling over £2 billion to help the sector recover from the pandemic, and more than £1 billion to support local authorities deliver their long-term local plans to improve services.

As part of the £300 million to support services until 2025, £160 million will be provided to local transport authorities to improve fares, services and infrastructure while £140 million will go directly to operators to help protect essential services across England.

Whilst there are some comments about encouraging bus use, mixed in with the other funding for BSIPs, it was predominantly about the cost of living crisis.

I agree that this site is not really indicative of the wider population, but, yes, once the price of a return bus commuting or leisure trip goes above the marginal cost of driving plus parking, then people will naturally switch. Price is the only factor that is guaranteed to beat convenience factors.

I'm afraid I disagree. The vast majority of people aren't so price sensitive and, if you have a car, the temptation is to use it. Price is far from the only factor to beat convenience... Those places in the UK that have enjoyed bus patronage growth are ones that have good bus priority to make journey times attractive, engaged operators who have matched investment and have marketed services appropriately, and have also restricted parking so it's less attractive to take your car in.

I don't disagree with that at all, I'm simply saying it's not comparable with coffee takeaway. In any case, most travel isn't essential in the true sense of being unable to live without it. It's a spectrum where some things are easier to do without than others. People could all be forced to only walk or cycle to work or if they can't they can only work from home. But people need it to live decent lives in a modern economy, because that's not a world we'd any of us want to live in.

The cap didn't really make any difference to me personally anyway if you apply a "need" test, as I use an annual season ticket.

I get that. My point was more that people who are so price sensitive that £2/day is an issue probably weren't spending £4 when they could have avoided it.

I don't like the easy criticism of people are prepared to buy coffee or buy vapes yet don't want to spend a reasonable amount on a still discounted fare (or discounted in many instances). However, I'd be interested to see the evidence (if it exists) of where the additional passengers have come from. Are they simply bus passengers who were WFH 3 days a week but now have to go in and so we're just subsidising their fares (as was the intended aim of the scheme) or have we actually seen some modal shift?

Diamond West/ East Midlands??
I believe they left the scheme
The 'Red' group of companies around Aylesbury were never part of the scheme

Don’t think Diamond left the scheme. Are you not getting confused with them leaving the Staffordshire Knot scheme?

 

[ScotGG]

Is there any hard evidence people switched to buses in the first place? If the (still updated) government Covid transport usage spreadsheet is accurate then bus usage is still below what it was 5 years ago. It looks like all that has happened is the government has paid some of the fare of people who already used buses which, I believe, was the main aim anyway at a time we were experiencing high inflation.

Exactly. There's some very out of touch people who think many are both paying and able to afford £4 coffees. Many arent and they are people.reliant in buses. Reminds me of boomers stating if people stopped Netflix they'd afford a house and such silliness.

 

[AM9]

People actually pay to use buses?

My local council seem to have dished out ENCTS passes like sweets!

Unless Lichfield has different qualification requirements for ENCTS passes, it's because more people bother to apply for them there.