Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

[stevenedin]

1145 covering for a breakdown of 406 on the 21 today.

1145 appears to be on the 21 again today so looks like a loan to Marine until 406 is ready to go back on the road. Nice to see it back in Marine for a bit.

 

[Bus9120UK]

417 was moved from Marine to Ferrymill Motors earlier this morning.

As was 510. Both are being repainted. 417 into a fresh coating of madder, and 510 in green I believe.

 

[stevenedin]

As was 510. Both are being repainted. 417 into a fresh coating of madder, and 510 in green I believe.

Is 510 going to Lothian Country to replace one of 841-850?

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Is 510 going to Lothian Country to replace one of 841-850?

Likely East Coast for replacements for 937-950 - more following in due course. Lothian Country should gain more 66 plates from Central in time.

 

[computerSaysNo]

Likely East Coast for replacements for 937-950 - more following in due course. Lothian Country should gain more 66 plates from Central in time.

So what's happening with Skylink then?

 

[paul0762]

Does anyone have any idea why so many 400s on the 31 just now instead of tri axles ? Can be pretty busy route at times so tri axle is handy.

 

[percycranky]

So what's happening with Skylink then?

I assume it was because there are currently 12 buses (498-510) with Skylink branding, used for services 200 and 400 only. The combined PVR of the two services is around 11, so it was thought unnecessary to keep 510 as there wasn't a time when all 12 buses were used at once.

Does anyone have any idea why so many 400s on the 31 just now instead of tri axles ? Can be pretty busy route at times so tri axle is handy.

It's around half-and-half now: 5 B5TL Gemini 3s and 7 B8L tri-axles. There were three B8L tri-axles deployed at peak time this morning. Most of the B8Ls are in use on services 11, 16, 31 and 47(B), and the 31 has a history of using a variety of vehicles, so I'm not sure what buses are allocated to it!

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

So what's happening with Skylink then?

Brand potentially dropped with normal liveried buses working the services. I’m assuming likely 551-570 working the services given the fact they have racks with the 34 and 35 switched to MMC’s. The 22 likely switches to 551-570 as well, with the 33 getting 426-437 and the dual door ex London’s withdrawn. None of this is confirmed, but seems the likely outcome.

 

[Lothiangem22]

Brand is dropping. Will be allocated normal service buses as deliveries continue and movements are made

 

[Resuwen]

Brand potentially dropped with normal liveried buses working the services. I’m assuming likely 551-570 working the services given the fact they have racks with the 34 and 35 switched to MMC’s. The 22 likely switches to 551-570 as well, with the 33 getting 426-437 and the dual door ex London’s withdrawn. None of this is confirmed, but seems the likely outcome.

That's a pity - there are quite a few other vehicles I'd withdraw before the dual door ex-Londons.

Then again, I would have made sure all new orders post 2019 continued to be dual door, so maybe I'm a bit biased.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

That's a pity - there are quite a few other vehicles I'd withdraw before the dual door ex-Londons.

Then again, I would have made sure all new orders post 2019 continued to be dual door, so maybe I'm a bit biased.

I think it’s the fact they’re considered non standard for their age. Given the fact they’re 60/11 plates (14 years old now) it doesn’t make economical sense for Lothian to convert them to single door, but for a prospective buyer who would intend to use them for several more years, it probably does.

As I say, allocating the 200 and 400 buses without luggage racks could be a slight problem, hence the suggestion of 551-570 which do have a rack, even if it is pretty small.

 

[stevenedin]

That's a pity - there are quite a few other vehicles I'd withdraw before the dual door ex-Londons.

Then again, I would have made sure all new orders post 2019 continued to be dual door, so maybe I'm a bit biased.

I agree. Dual doored buses are much better. They board much quicker as people are getting on and off at the same time. I also like this batch of buses due to them feeling nostalgic

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Jan 2025 ==

1145 appears to be on the 21 again today so looks like a loan to Marine until 406 is ready to go back on the road. Nice to see it back in Marine for a bit.

406 is back at Marine again on the 19 today after being on the 22 yesterday.

1145 is back at Longstone today on the 35.

 

[Lothianbus703]

I think it’s the fact they’re considered non standard for their age. Given the fact they’re 60/11 plates (14 years old now) it doesn’t make economical sense for Lothian to convert them to single door, but for a prospective buyer who would intend to use them for several more years, it probably does.

As I say, allocating the 200 and 400 buses without luggage racks could be a slight problem, hence the suggestion of 551-570 which do have a rack, even if it is pretty small.

I think the luggage racks left over from the ex Airlink Gemini 3's take up too much space and rarely are fully utilised, I agree 551-570 would be a good option as it provides a space for the small amount of passengers who do go all the way to the Airport. It would be ideal that whatever does replace them has luggage space of some sort.

 

[ScotRail158725]

As I say, allocating the 200 and 400 buses without luggage racks could be a slight problem, hence the suggestion of 551-570 which do have a rack, even if it is pretty small.

Not really, i cant say ive ever seen more than 2 or 3 pieces of luggage on the racks on the 400 and thats the journeys where there is luggage there to begin with. They’re not really required despite it being an airport service

 

[LothianLover88]

Will the 200/400 be renumbered? If so will the 18 make it's second debut?

 

[paul0762]

I assume it was because there are currently 12 buses (498-510) with Skylink branding, used for services 200 and 400 only. The combined PVR of the two services is around 11, so it was thought unnecessary to keep 510 as there wasn't a time when all 12 buses were used at once.

It's around half-and-half now: 5 B5TL Gemini 3s and 7 B8L tri-axles. There were three B8L tri-axles deployed at peak time this morning. Most of the B8Ls are in use on services 11, 16, 31 and 47(B), and the 31 has a history of using a variety of vehicles, so I'm not sure what buses are allocated to it!

In recent times it felt like tri axles were used as much as possible , but more B5s on it recently. 31 I think could do with B8L more than the 47

 

[LeeThwok]

I think it’s the fact they’re considered non standard for their age. Given the fact they’re 60/11 plates (14 years old now) it doesn’t make economical sense for Lothian to convert them to single door, but for a prospective buyer who would intend to use them for several more years, it probably does.

As I say, allocating the 200 and 400 buses without luggage racks could be a slight problem, hence the suggestion of 551-570 which do have a rack, even if it is pretty small.

Was it not the second batch of hybrids 571-590 (now at country) that had the small luggage racks?

 

[Bus9120UK]

The 31 saw a variety of 11 plate B9TLs, 66/17 plate B5TLs and the B8Ls for a short while before the 27 had its allocation changed from B5s to B9s, at which point the 31 became more consistent with B5TLs and B8Ls. I imagine the fact no B8Ls are away for paint right now helps, but I want to think the remaining five will be repainted in due course.
It wouldn't surprise me if the B9TLs return to the 31 once more BZLs are put on the road, permitting more of the 66 plates to move to Lothian Country.

418 departed for repaint earlier joining 417 and 510. Its likely that 419 will soon be taken off service to follow.

 

[Blindtraveler]

If the skyline brand is dropping then I hope they drop the premium fare as well, if the airport are precious about this, then could they simply not alter the terminus to a non-airport stop and charge the city flat rate price instead

 

[paul0762]

Also heard a rumour that the BZL order is on hold as Lothian are having issues with the range. A lot of them being changed over later in the day due to low battery.

 

[Bus9120UK]

Also heard a rumour that the BZL order is on hold as Lothian are having issues with the range. A lot of them being changed over later in the day due to low battery.

I highly doubt this, its surely too late now and Lothian clearly have started progressing through plans for further cascading with the repaint of 510. The locators for the remaining BZLs up to 730 were activated in the control room earlier as well.
From tracking data available, the majority if not all have completed full days successfully - even during the last week through the cold temperatures.

 

[ScotRail158725]

I imagine the fact no B8Ls are away for paint right now helps, but I want to think the remaining five will be repainted in due course.

Only 5 left? Never knew they went through them so quick

It wouldn't surprise me if the B9TLs return to the 31 once more BZLs are put on the road, permitting more of the 66 plates to move to Lothian Country.

Should prioritise XLBs for the 31 not B9s

418 departed for repaint earlier joining 417 and 510. Its likely that 419 will soon be taken off service to follow.

Am i right in saying its just 419 and a handful of 351-400 that still have the old scheme with the extra gold on the skirt panels left?

 

[Bus9120UK]

Only 5 left? Never knew they went through them so quick

They progressed through them nicely, even with some pauses through the later half of the year. The remaining ones are 1071, 1087, 1089, 1106 and 1111.

Correction - they've all been repainted but I forgot to note down some of these - 1111 was missed due to unreliable tracking. 1071 is the only one that wasn't repainted in this program, but was likely skipped due to a part repaint in 2023. I am surprised they didn't skip 1098, though.

Should prioritise XLBs for the 31 not B9s

Am i right in saying its just 419 and a handful of 351-400 that still have the old scheme with the extra gold on the skirt panels left?

Those are correct, but the majority of the 7900s and city ex-Londons still have it as well. 498-509 as well but clearly those won't have it for much longer.

 

[paul0762]

I highly doubt this, its surely too late now and Lothian clearly have started progressing through plans for further cascading with the repaint of 510. The locators for the remaining BZLs up to 730 were activated in the control room earlier as well.
From tracking data available, the majority if not all have completed full days successfully - even during the last week through the cold temperatures.

I think it must come down to use of lights & heating maybe that run down the battery’s ( I’m not 100% sure ) but have seen a lot getting changed over. Which can’t be sustainable on a larger scale surely. I still think Lothian should look at ADLs electric range

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

Was it not the second batch of hybrids 571-590 (now at country) that had the small luggage racks?

571-590 which were new for Skylink retain the big luggage rack at Lothian Country. On 551-570 that same space is an extra couple of seats. 551-570 have a much smaller luggage rack in the space above the wheel. Most of the fleet lost these racks when they received the Hanover displays as the side display was moved to the top of the window, however unusually 551-570 kept their small rack with the side display kept at the bottom.

 

[stevenedin]

It’s probably an unpopular opinion but could they not take the luggage racks out of 571-590 and add them into 551-570 or repaint all of 551-570 into green and swap them with 571-590 which could be repainted into Lothian livery depending on which would be the cheapest to do.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I have no doubt that ADL will be more than keen to offer. Lothian a. Demonstrator for their new integral electric range, but as yet we have no performance data on how it copes with the cold weather either. And given that other manufacturers including BYD have also stuffered with cold weather problems, this would seem to be an industry-wide challenge that will doubtless be solved as the technology evolves. It's not as if they didn't thoroughly test the bzl platform before ordering a load of them and were perhaps unfortunate not to have a really seriously cold snap during this testing

 

[TheEastCoaster]

If the skyline brand is dropping then I hope they drop the premium fare as well, if the airport are precious about this, then could they simply not alter the terminus to a non-airport stop and charge the city flat rate price instead

I'd be surprised if this is true, I can't comment on how popular the 200/400 are to/from the Airport but they have both been running for about 8-7ish years, be abit strange to finally drop them now, unless it's just the branding alone and the services remain intact.

I had my doubts on the 18 returning as a service number due to the X18, but it could work now with the 19 and X19 being separate services.

 

[FlybeDash8Q400]

I'd be surprised if this is true, I can't comment on how popular the 200/400 are to/from the Airport but they have both been running for about 8-7ish years, be abit strange to finally drop them now, unless it's just the branding alone and the services remain intact.

Just the brand and the vehicles, nothing else.

 

[CSB0241]

Likely East Coast for replacements for 937-950 - more following in due course. Lothian Country should gain more 66 plates from Central in time.

Great news, 937-950 aren’t in great condition, so having them replaced by some of Lothian’s best buses is spectacular to hear.

Does anyone have any idea why so many 400s on the 31 just now instead of tri axles ? Can be pretty busy route at times so tri axle is handy.

There was one day in November/early December where there wasn’t a single XLB on the 31 & it was all just 66/17 plates + one E400MMC (I think it was 682?), which while I do think they are better than the XLBs, the 31 desperately needs tri-axles instead of the B5s.

Brand potentially dropped with normal liveried buses working the services.

Interesting move, but I guess it makes sense.

I’m assuming likely 551-570 working the services given the fact they have racks with the 34 and 35 switched to MMC’s. The 22 likely switches to 551-570 as well, with the 33 getting 426-437 and the dual door ex London’s withdrawn. None of this is confirmed, but seems the likely outcome.

I think this is the most likely scenario. Is it possible that any more buses will move to Longstone to aid with the shortage of deckers?

As I say, allocating the 200 and 400 buses without luggage racks could be a slight problem, hence the suggestion of 551-570 which do have a rack, even if it is pretty small.

It really won’t be, I can’t recall one time when there’s been more than 3 suitcases on the racks, so that’d be fine.

I think the luggage racks left over from the ex Airlink Gemini 3's take up too much space and rarely are fully utilised.

I agree. The 400 struggles with capacity a lot in my experience (especially between Oxgangs & The Gyle), so getting rid of a majority (or maybe even all) of them would make sense.

Will the 200/400 be renumbered? If so will the 18 make it's second debut?

I do doubt it, having Airport buses branded as X00 works well.

Was it not the second batch of hybrids 571-590 (now at country) that had the small luggage racks?

571-590 do have small luggage racks (due to being ex-Skylink), but 551-570 have a smaller luggage rack next to the door above the newspaper rack which’d suit the 200/400 more.

Also heard a rumour that the BZL order is on hold as Lothian are having issues with the range. A lot of them being changed over later in the day due to low battery.

This does seem a bit ridiculous.

Should prioritise XLBs for the 31 not B9s

Correct.

I had my doubts on the 18 returning as a service number due to the X18, but it could work now with the 19 and X19 being separate services.

I do think the X18/19/27/28 should be renumbered out of the 1-50 range, since I have seen tons of people getting on the X27 at rush hour thinking it was an express version of the 27 (think the X26 to the 26 or X44 to the 44). The 43 could also be renumbered, but I don’t see it as a problem as much.