Wrexham, Shropshire & Midlands Railway updates

[The Planner]

In regards to WSMR though, how much of the WCML are they planning to use?
Isn't it just that bit from Euston to Nuneaton?
after that, they head off somewhere else and end up in Wales. (If I've got this wrong, forgive me, as im still a bit of a railway noob). If they can market the economic benefit to the community effectively, then I feel they may be prioritised.

I think on WSMRs application, Network Rail said 2 of the 10 paths were fine but the other 8 required flexing of other services. But ive seen in other applications that network rail literally disputes everything, even existing TOC paths/applications.
I think WSMR might be a dark horse... Alstom would've done their homework, surely?

Flexing is doing some heavy lifting. If a path isn't compliant, NR has to reject it.

 

[Bald Rick]

In regards to WSMR though, how much of the WCML are they planning to use?
Isn't it just that bit from Euston to Nuneaton?

Yes, ie all of the busiest bit (Euston - Rugby).

This will be an interesting decision for the Regulator.

”Dear Network Rail. You may remember that we have written to you formally on several occasions to highlight how performance on the network is not good enough, that when incidents happen on busy parts of the network delays are getting larger and it takes a long time to return services to normal, and that you must improve this situation. We have also written to you separately to point out that with the high levels of passenger numbers at Euston station, passenger handling and the passenger experience leaves a lot to be desired and you must improve this situation.

Meanwhile we are going to approve the following extra services on the WCML, which is one of the busiest parts of the network, so that Euston can get busier with more passengers and that any incidents on the network will get worse, causing higher levels of delay. Simultaneously, this will increase expenditure on the rail system by taxpayers due to revenue abstraction. Yours, ORR.”

(obviously the above is said in jest to make the point)

 

[weeklycommuter]

Does anyone know when the Office of Rail and Road is likely to make a decision on WSMR and the other two (Lumo and Virgin) currently undecided open access applications for paths on the West Coast Mainline?

 

[Zontar]

Does anyone know when the Office of Rail and Road is likely to make a decision on WSMR and the other two (Lumo and Virgin) currently undecided open access applications for paths on the West Coast Mainline?

I was thinking the same thing. It was march 24 when the application went in I think.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Does anyone know when the Office of Rail and Road is likely to make a decision on WSMR and the other two (Lumo and Virgin) currently undecided open access applications for paths on the West Coast Mainline?

June 25 (at the earliest) is the current estimate as they won’t get anything useful from NR until March, much to the annoyance of the applicants.

 

[The Planner]

June 25 (at the earliest) is the current estimate as they won’t get anything useful from NR until March, much to the annoyance of the applicants.

Define useful, are we talking performance modelling or something else?

 

[Clarence Yard]

Performance and Timetable modelling.

 

[The Planner]

Performance and Timetable modelling.

Performance modelling is never quick depending on how big the geographic model is.

 

[ShadowKnight]

I presume the alternative routes to Paddington, Marylebone (and somewhere else?) too slow a journey time?

 

[The Planner]

I presume the alternative routes to Paddington, Marylebone (and somewhere else?) too slow a journey time?

No capacity into Paddington and no money in Marylebone I expect.

 

[Class 170101]

No capacity into Paddington and no money in Marylebone I expect.

I think we already know there is no money in Marylebone (and by extension Paddington) otherwise the original incarnation of WSMR wouldn't have folded.

 

[12LDA28C]

I think we already know there is no money in Marylebone (and by extension Paddington) otherwise the original incarnation of WSMR wouldn't have folded.

Really? Nothing to do with a worldwide recession, operational restrictions imposed by rival operators and a competing service between Wrexham and London being introduced then?

 

[The Planner]

Really? Nothing to do with a worldwide recession, operational restrictions imposed by rival operators and a competing service between Wrexham and London being introduced then?

Wasn't imposed by Virgin, DfT instructed them to as part of moderation of competition.

 

[anthony263]

I think we already know there is no money in Marylebone (and by extension Paddington) otherwise the original incarnation of WSMR wouldn't have folded.

WSMR wouldn't have folded if they'd been allowed to use the midland mainline class 170s like they originally wanted plus the restrictions placed on thwm

 

[Class 170101]

Really? Nothing to do with a worldwide recession, operational restrictions imposed by rival operators and a competing service between Wrexham and London being introduced then?

Sure these didn't help but Wrexham to Marylebone was always going to be a slower journey than that to Euston regardless of the restrictions whether caused or not caused by MoC or other restrictions.

WSMR wouldn't have folded if they'd been allowed to use the midland mainline class 170s like they originally wanted plus the restrictions placed on thwm

I don't recall those 170s being available.

 

[12LDA28C]

Sure these didn't help but Wrexham to Marylebone was always going to be a slower journey than that to Euston regardless of the restrictions whether caused or not caused by MoC or other restrictions.


I don't recall those 170s being available.

Of course WSMR would be a slower journey than going into Euston but remember there was no direct Wrexham to London service when WSMR started. And there is much more to attracting a customer base than having a fast journey time.

 

[Hadlow Road]

My wife and I used the excellent WSMR service, mainly because it saved a change at Chester, it saved using the less clean stock and it avoided the scrum at Euston. Marylebone was always a delight. Yes, the journey took longer, but no changes and great service made the difference.

Using it weekly I was so disappointed at the loss. Proper, effective and professional service. Fearing that this paean is off topic I hope that we will see the new direct service soon. Avanti’s hit and miss to Wrexham is, sadly, still challenging.

 

[anthony263]

Sure these didn't help but Wrexham to Marylebone was always going to be a slower journey than that to Euston regardless of the restrictions whether caused or not caused by MoC or other restrictions.


I don't recall those 170s being available.

It's in the book i had on Wrexham and Shropshire. It mentions them in negotiations for the 170s then suddenly told they no longer available

 

[MCR247]

It's in the book i had on Wrexham and Shropshire. It mentions them in negotiations for the 170s then suddenly told they no longer available

it sounds bad but to be honest good - they were needed at Central Trains.

 

[Zontar]

Sounds like it's about to get interesting.

New Shrewsbury-to-London rail service given a 'boost' - here's when services could begin

A new rail service connecting Shrewsbury to the capital has received the backing of the Department for Transport, an MP has said.

www.shropshirestar.com

 

[XCTurbostar]

Spring is a little bit optimistic, isn’t it?

 

[A S Leib]

I'm probably missing things and I think parts are too optimistic as well, but I think this is a map of current and well-advanced proposed or approved open-access services:
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/ma...open-access-operators_1174924#7/53.114/-1.637

 

[CyrusWuff]

Definitely jumping the gun. ORR have further meetings regarding the numerous competing Track Access applications scheduled for 19th March and 16th April.

 

[nwales58]

Spring is a little bit optimistic, isn’t it?

That's from the MP.

AFICS all that is new is 'confirmation of support' from DfT. What does that actually amount to as the authorisation is ORR's?

 

[Bertiethebobby]

That's from the MP.

AFICS all that is new is 'confirmation of support' from DfT. What does that actually amount to as the authorisation is ORR's?

Yes indeed

I don’t think the MP has much of of an idea of the thinking towards OA operators nowadays.
Is it desirable to have an extra 5 short formation trains a day on the WCML to provide a service to Shrewsbury. Also the previous WSMR couldn’t make it pay with one train each way.
The assumed extra revenue from MK seems optimistic when they already have 8 direct trains an hour to Euston.

I would love to be proved wrong but I think this is just pie in th sky, especially with the transition to GBRR

 

[Meerkat]

That's from the MP.

AFICS all that is new is 'confirmation of support' from DfT. What does that actually amount to as the authorisation is ORR's?

Is it cynical to suggest the DfT are just taking the political approach - let ORR take the heat if they reject it? Bit like local MPs will support almost any madcap reopening proposal?

 

[The Planner]

Someone has made the paths work then if its true, as they didn't as proposed.

 

[victormildrew]

Yes indeed

I don’t think the MP has much of of an idea of the thinking towards OA operators nowadays.
Is it desirable to have an extra 5 short formation trains a day on the WCML to provide a service to Shrewsbury. Also the previous WSMR couldn’t make it pay with one train each way.
The assumed extra revenue from MK seems optimistic when they already have 8 direct trains an hour to Euston.

I would love to be proved wrong but I think this is just pie in th sky, especially with the transition to GBRR

Also the previous WSMR couldn’t make it pay with one train each way.
Why were they unable to make it pay?.

 

[robspaceman]

Also the previous WSMR couldn’t make it pay with one train each way.
Why were they unable to make it pay?.

Because it went right round the houses and took forever and had an overspecced offering of freshly cooked food etc etc (albeit delicious). This new proposal will be 2.5 hours and without the extra bells and whistles.

 

[Bertiethebobby]

Because it went right round the houses and took forever and had an overspecced offering of freshly cooked food etc etc (albeit delicious). This new proposal will be 2.5 hours and without the extra bells and whistles.

Personally I would happily have a slightly longer journey, say 3 hours against having to change at Birmingham or Crewe. Maybe the shorter journey time will be sufficient to support 5 trains as day. Whether ORR or whoever decides such things in the future will be happy to provide those pathways is another matter